Another shooting (Parkland High School)

[Erik88]

1 hour ago, Dolomite_supafly said:

That Hogg kid is full of it. He was not a student there and there is plenty of evidence to suggest 99% of what he is saying is rehearsed BS. But he will be propped up on a pedestal as a hero for speaking out, just like the others who are calling for gun control.

 

Gordon, no offense but I would caution you from spreading this until some sort of proof comes out suggesting this is true. We're really not doing ourselves any favors by spreading what seems to be conspiracy theories. 

[AuEagle]

[peejman]

This is an interesting story that I think speaks to some of the issues (anger, isolation, ...)  and relatively simple solutions (kindness, compassion, love, ...). 

The world has grown cold and hard.  I feel like it's largely related to the slow decline of Christian values in this country.  People have become afraid to give simple outward kindness for fear of being negatively judged or labelled.  Everyone wants something tangible in return, when the intangible is the best reward. 

 

“If you see someone who looks like they need love, give it to them,” Aaron said. “Even a small hug, a word, or a smile could actually save lives. Compassion is the only real way we can stop this. Love people even when they don't deserve it.”

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/20/man-writes-open-letter-after-parkland-massacre-was-almost-school-shooter.html

[bersaguy]

On ‎2‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 9:34 PM, GeorgeandSugar said:

Apparently there were red flags. Signs were there. No one apparently spoke out. He was expelled for disciplinary reasons. I wonder if the school offered any help?

Politicians will blame guns. I wonder if there will ever be a discussion about what binds us together? Morals, accountability, responsibility, self-control, pride in self, family and community, patriotism, the flag, national anthem, pledge of allegiance, duty, honor and country.


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If you will look around you will see many of the items you have listed above no longer exist in our country. The last 2 generations have lost them and I'm not sure if they can't find them again or if they are even looking for them! It would appear they are not really looking very hard to find them because they are still here. I homestly don't think they want the country we had back 2 or 3 generations ago. I don't think tey have time to help somone that has fallen or someone that just needs a little help to get back on their feet. I have watched and if you look at the crowds at  sporting events mos of th people in the crowds are standing but looking into their Cell Phones and not at the Flag. Some will say I had it on my cell phone. Why??? It's right in front of you going on live???????? Two friends will be sitting at a bus stop waiting on a bus and instead of talking to each other face to face they will be texting each other!!!!!!! What is wrong with that picture???? Are they brain washed to a point they can no longer speak??? I sent about 30 minutes some time back sitting on a bench in a pretty busy Park and during that 30 minutes 81 people walked past me and 74 of them had their faces in their cell phones and some eople actually bumped into each other , to busy to stop and look where they were going.

If I would be willing to guess, I would say SOCIAL MEDIA in one of our major issues in todays society....................JMHO

[Ugly]

Plenty of people spoke out. There was a willful attempt to save this kid from trouble by the school, educators and fed gov. The policies failed. 

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2018/02/did_the_progressive_broward_county_solution_cost_17_student_lives.html

[bersaguy]

18 minutes ago, Ugly said:

Plenty of people spoke out. There was a willful attempt to save this kid from trouble by the school, educators and fed gov. The policies failed. 

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2018/02/did_the_progressive_broward_county_solution_cost_17_student_lives.html

Yea, they admitted that many people spoke out but remember, we are talking about the Government Alphabet Forces at work here. Back very shortly after 911 President Bush formed the Department of Homeland Security. It was designed for a lot of reasosns but the main one was to get all of the Alphabet Groups to begin talking and sharing any and all information they had on case both of them were working on and compare notes. That was back shorty after 9/11/2001  and 18 years later they still are not working together cause several of the had paper work on this guy and no one was talking or very possibly 17 young people and numerous others would be alive today.............JMHO

[GeorgeandSugar]

Plenty of people spoke out. There was a willful attempt to save this kid from trouble by the school, educators and fed gov. The policies failed. 
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2018/02/did_the_progressive_broward_county_solution_cost_17_student_lives.html

Seems to be the solution nowadays. Ignore facts and promote this social justice warrior mentality. Then when a problem crops up, their response is to blame a tool or someone or someone else. Seldom have Democrats proposed anything that actually solves the problem or actually works. Disgusted with the direction of our society and the PC environ is undermining our society and the American values I was taught.


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[GlockSpock]

I've been contemplating writing the following post for a while now. I've flip-flopped between considering it appropriate and considering it distasteful in light of current events. However, I decided to write it.

 To some extent on the topic of mass shootings as a whole, aren't we all (collectively, as America) to blame? I'm not trying to play the blame game but rather, in my opinion, take responsibility to some extent. Now, first, I fully admit and accept that there are truly evil people that set out to do truly evil things. Some people don't like hearing that but I do believe it to be true.

However, if we investigated each and every "mass shooting" over the previous 2-3 decades, how many of them could have been prevented had people simply been more caring about those around them? I'm not delusional to think that all of these shootings could be prevented, but I'm thinking about it from this standpoint, particularly in the setting of school (be it high school or college). It wasn't that long ago that I was in high school myself. I made it through ok; I wasn't super popular but I also had enough friends that I enjoyed most of it. Considering that the profile for these shooters is typically someone outcast from the "norm" and generally shunned by most/all of their peers, I wonder how many of these shooters would have turned out differently had they simply been treated better by their peers. I'm not talking about an "everyone wins, there are no losers" environment, but rather one where people, specifically classmates, treat each other with more respect. I think we all can recognize there is usually a certain number people in a school environment that are generally pushed aside by everyone else. These people are mocked, teased, bullied, etc. I am in no way justifying what these shooters have done; Shooting other innocent people because the shooter's life sucked is not ok. It is evil. However, what I am suggesting is that perhaps for a certain number of these shooters, perhaps if only a percentage of classmates were nicer to the shooters themselves, perhaps their outcomes would have been different.

I'm simply talking about being nicer to people. People at this latest school shooting supposedly all "joked" that if anyone was going to shoot up the school, it was going to be this guy. Well, what if part of the school had been nicer to, spoken politely to, dedicated even a few moments of their day checking up with said shooter and generally just caring about his life? Sometimes to a person in a dark place mentally the absolute best thing that can be done for that person is just genuinely showing them that someone cares about them.

Again, I'm not naive to think this would solve all shootings. For the truly sick/evil ones, which are out there, this would effectively help zero. Some people just want to see the world burn. The best thing to do is to stop them before they burn too much. Yet, instead in our society, everyone wants to put the blame on someone or something else (black rifles, the FBI, the local Sheriff's Department, mental healthcare, background checks, etc). Most people want this problem fixed magically, either by banning black rifles, policing people by thoughts, locking away forever the mentally ill, background checks that are magical and catch people even without criminal records, etc. People generally want a "fast food" answer to a complex problem, so that they can go about their lives and forget that evil and tragedy exist in this world. However, personally I feel a lot could be prevented if people were less infatuated with themselves, cared more for their peers' general well being, were more generous and less prideful, and ultimately just treated people like fellow human beings.

And, after all of this is said and done, be prepared to put a few bullets into the truly evil people that act upon their desires.

Edited February 22, 2018 by CZ9MM

[macville]

1 hour ago, CZ9MM said:

I've been contemplating writing the following post for a while now. I've flip-flopped between considering it appropriate and considering it distasteful in light of current events. However, I decided to write it.

 To some extent on the topic of mass shootings as a whole, aren't we all (collectively, as America) to blame? I'm not trying to play the blame game but rather, in my opinion, take responsibility to some extent. Now, first, I fully admit and accept that there are truly evil people that set out to do truly evil things. Some people don't like hearing that but I do believe it to be true.

However, if we investigated each and every "mass shooting" over the previous 2-3 decades, how many of them could have been prevented had people simply been more caring about those around them? I'm not delusional to think that all of these shootings could be prevented, but I'm thinking about it from this standpoint, particularly in the setting of school (be it high school or college). It wasn't that long ago that I was in high school myself. I made it through ok; I wasn't super popular but I also had enough friends that I enjoyed most of it. Considering that the profile for these shooters is typically someone outcast from the "norm" and generally shunned by most/all of their peers, I wonder how many of these shooters would have turned out differently had they simply been treated better by their peers. I'm not talking about an "everyone wins, there are no losers" environment, but rather one where people, specifically classmates, treat each other with more respect. I think we all can recognize there is usually a certain number people in a school environment that are generally pushed aside by everyone else. These people are mocked, teased, bullied, etc. I am in no way justifying what these shooters have done; Shooting other innocent people because the shooter's life sucked is not ok. It is evil. However, what I am suggesting is that perhaps for a certain number of these shooters, perhaps if only a percentage of classmates were nicer to the shooters themselves, perhaps their outcomes would have been different.

I'm simply talking about being nicer to people. People at this latest school shooting supposedly all "joked" that if anyone was going to shoot up the school, it was going to be this guy. Well, what if part of the school had been nicer to, spoken politely to, dedicated even a few moments of their day checking up with said shooter and generally just caring about his life? Sometimes to a person in a dark place mentally the absolute best thing that can be done for that person is just genuinely showing them that someone cares about them.

Again, I'm not naive to think this would solve all shootings. For the truly sick/evil ones, which are out there, this would effectively help zero. Some people just want to see the world burn. The best thing to do is to stop them before they burn too much. Yet, instead in our society, everyone wants to put the blame on someone or something else (black rifles, the FBI, the local Sheriff's Department, mental healthcare, background checks, etc). Most people want this problem fixed magically, either by banning black rifles, policing people by thoughts, locking away forever the mentally ill, background checks that are magical and catch people even without criminal records, etc. People generally want a "fast food" answer to a complex problem, so that they can go about their lives and forget that evil and tragedy exist in this world. However, personally I feel a lot could be prevented if people were less infatuated with themselves, cared more for their peers' general well being, were more generous and less prideful, and ultimately just treated people like fellow human beings.

And, after all of this is said and done, be prepared to put a few bullets into the truly evil people that act upon their desires.

 

But it's easier to make a feel good law than it is to actually care about someone who has issues.

[xsubsailor]

Another fail regarding the Florida shooting 

The police officer who was on patrol at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, on Feb. 14 resigned Thursday after video surveillance showed he never entered the school, even though he "clearly" knew there was a shooting taking place.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/22/cop-assigned-to-florida-school-never-went-in-amid-shooting-sheriff-says.html

 

[AuEagle]

41 minutes ago, xsubsailor said:

Another fail regarding the Florida shooting 

The police officer who was on patrol at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, on Feb. 14 resigned Thursday after video surveillance showed he never entered the school, even though he "clearly" knew there was a shooting taking place.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/22/cop-assigned-to-florida-school-never-went-in-amid-shooting-sheriff-says.html

 

How sad.

They need to hire some of us older retired curmudgeons to guard the schools. We'd run, make that limp & hobble toward the gunfire.

 

[Erik88]

It's being reported that the there was in fact a SRO stationed at the school and instead of confronting the shooter he waited outside for 4 minutes. That officer has now resigned. 

Wow. Just wow. You have to wonder how many lives he could have saved.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/parkland/florida-school-shooting/fl-florida-shooting-sro-20180222-story.html

 

[bersaguy]

24 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

It's being reported that the there was in fact a SRO stationed at the school and instead of confronting the shooter he waited outside for 4 minutes. That officer has now resigned. 

Wow. Just wow. You have to wonder how many lives he could have saved.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/parkland/florida-school-shooting/fl-florida-shooting-sro-20180222-story.html

 

"Wow. Just wow. You have to wonder how many lives he could have saved". You can wonder all day but we will never know will we? I would be willing to bet my last dollar if that would have been a retired VET we would have found out because a Veteran runs to gun fire and not away from it!!!!! I have said it a dozen times and I will say it one more. We have 1000's of Veterans looking for work a great job for them would be protecting our children and  grandchildren while in school. There are many of them with college degrees that could be employed as school counselors, coaches, assistant coaches, Custodians(Janitors) Grounds Keepers, they are all trained in firearms and would only take a few short classes to refresh them on what their jobs are but job 1 is the protection of the children. They were in our military so they already know how to follow orders..............JMHO

[gregintenn]

1 hour ago, Erik88 said:

It's being reported that the there was in fact a SRO stationed at the school and instead of confronting the shooter he waited outside for 4 minutes. That officer has now resigned. 

Wow. Just wow. You have to wonder how many lives he could have saved.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/parkland/florida-school-shooting/fl-florida-shooting-sro-20180222-story.html

 

I can't think of a better example to show folks why to avoid trusting your safety to a guy with a badge.

[Hozzie]

This is about the best response I have seen to this.  I am just going to start posting a link to this for a response.

https://news.unclesamsmisguidedchildren.com/florida-shooting-op-ed-refuse-lectured-anymore/

 

[Grand Torino]

Resource officers were put in school primarily to keep this kind of stuff from happening or at least minimize the carnage. It does no good to "Protect and Serve" when you fail to do the right thing. This is a prime example of why you can't depend on others for the protection of you and your family. Let me say I am a avid supporter of LE but this is a travesty and while I'm not a lawyer and didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night there has to be something to charge this dipstick with if these reports are true and correct. This individual should not under any circumstances go unpunished if these claims are true.

A man has to know his limitations as someone once said and if you can stand by and watch kids being murdered while you are armed and do nothing it says something about a person's grit...or lack of it.

And as a disclaimer let me say I am no hero. I'm just an average guy that was raised but parents that taught me right from wrong and have a moral compass because of it. I have put myself in danger more than once to save others cause I instinctively act to the best of my ability. I could never have stood by and did nothing in that situation no matter how scared I might have been.

 

[DaveTN]

No one knows how they will handle being involved in a shooting until it happens. If the reports are correct this Officer failed to engage. I would assume he got scared since he has offered no explanation and resigned. (Retired is more accurate if what I am seeing is correct) He has to live with what he did.

This is another reason we have to be able to have guns to engage violent criminals. There have been SCOTUS rulings that the Police are not required to or responsible for our protection. We must be able to protect ourselves in seconds, not minutes.

[Dolomite_supafly]

I have a relative that said ALL veterans have PTSD and cannot be trusted around children. This same person has said the only people who should have guns are members of government. That officer is a coward and is why we should not be forced to rely on police to protect ourselves. He knew kids were being shot and he did nothing. I would be on board with any lawsuits against him as well as criminal charges if it can be proven his dereliction resulted in any injuries or deaths. 

Send a clear message to those being paid to protect our kids, if you refuse to do your job you will be held accountable. 

I can promise you I, because I have, will run towards gunfire. If my body has to soak up some rounds to save children so be it. 

Edited February 23, 2018 by Dolomite_supafly

[GeorgeandSugar]

I can't think of a better example to show folks why to avoid trusting your safety to a guy with a badge.

Yep. Police arrest criminals and investigate crimes. There ought to be standards on these so called resource officers. I don’t think picking someone who is at retirement age every expected to have to engage an aggressor. This was likely easy duty in his mind. Sad. He failed. IMHO, he lacked the will and courage to act. He had to know kids were dying with his inaction.

We need the “soldier/Marine/warrior” mentality to confront these aggressors, not over-the-hill deputies.


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[Ugly]

On February 21, 2018 at 1:38 PM, Erik88 said:

Gordon, no offense but I would caution you from spreading this until some sort of proof comes out suggesting this is true. We're really not doing ourselves any favors by spreading what seems to be conspiracy theories. 

 

[bersaguy]

2 hours ago, Dolomite_supafly said:

I have a relative that said ALL veterans have PTSD and cannot be trusted around children. This same person has said the only people who should have guns are members of government. That officer is a coward and is why we should be forced to rely on police to protect ourselves. He knew kids were being shot and he did nothing. I would be on board with any lawsuits against him as well as criminal charges if it can be proven his dereliction resulted in any injuries or deaths. 

Send a clear message to those being paid to protect our kids, if you refuse to do your job you will be held accountable. 

I can promise you I, because I have, will run towards gunfire. If my body has to soak up some rounds to save children so be it. 

All Veterans don't have PTSD. I don't have it and I know probably a 100 more that don't have it. Problem now is we are all to old for the job.I just turned 70 and had a triple By-pass but I can promise you a year ago I would still have been running towards the gun fire in a school to engage the shooter. I have heard so many people say it sounded like Fire crackers and not gun shots. Fine, if you a student run away from the fire crackers and it your and officer run towards the fire crackers but run in the direction you should be running in..............JMHO 

[Omega]

Ok, so here is my take on a few things.  Before I deployed to an area where the targets shot back, I had no idea how I would react, but I am proud to say I did the right thing and engaged.  So I am not going to jump on the "Bad LEO" bandwagon too much, and the Supreme Court has weighed in on them, LEO, not having a duty to protect so that's that.  I can bet he will have PTSD, or some form of guilt for the rest of his life.

But I strongly feel we need to harden these schools, make them as difficult as possible for a shooter to engage that many targets.  I don't think we need to make it feel like a prison, but there is definitely things that can be done, and immediately.  One is to allow volunteer faculty to carry, take training and rehearse drills, there is plenty of time when the kids are not there to let them rehearse.  It is working in Ohio and Colorado I believe, they even take courses to qualify.  The armed faculty are not advertised except to let parents know some MAY be armed, a good thing, so there leaves a doubt for any would be shooter.  Let trained personnel Such as Military and LEO, or those willing to train, volunteer to patrol the campuses, with their EDC concealed so to again, cause shooters to 2nd think their actions.

We do not need to sacrifice a dang think to the anti-gunners!  Every "Sensible" Gun Law is a sham IMO, it only effects those who are willing to follow the law, the criminals just ignore it while they break other laws.  The phrase "Shall not Infringed" does not have a "but" or "unless" in it, it seem pretty clear to me that the NFA, GCA, or any 2A Control Law is Unconstitutional, so the whole "intent" of the law is not something to consider, in my book, when it comes to defining or redefining what can and can't be owned.

We are judged by the actions of a few, but are lambasted for trying to harden our borders against whom wish us harm by saying not all Muslims are terrorists, you can't have it both ways.

 

[Whisper]

31 minutes ago, Omega said:

But I strongly feel we need to harden these schools, make them as difficult as possible for a shooter to engage that many targets.  I don't think we need to make it feel like a prison, but there is definitely things that can be done, and immediately. 

One of the thing that strongly concerns me is that school shootings by kids in the US reinforce to our overseas enemies how easily those things are accomplished.  I fear it is only a matter of time until we see a Beslan-type assault on an elementary school by jihadists who have some training and who are ready to lose their lives in the process.  A school where the SRO is afraid to engage a lone teenager isn't going to fare well in a situation like that.

Look at Israel.  You see terror attacks there -- with guns, knives, bombs, rockets -- on a regular basis.  But the last shooting at a school in Israel was March 2008.  Their schools are not soft targets.

[GhstFace38]

I’ve been a police officer for 11 years, please understand that the actions of this one man do not represent the feelings of 99.9999% of law enforcement officers. The Officers I work with would be knocking each other over to get inside that building and engage that threat.

The public duty doctrine states that governmental entities have a duty to protect the populace as a whole, unless a special relationship is established. In this instance, a special relationship was established when those citizens relied upon that Officer for protection. He is liable, the department is liable.

Termination and prosecution would be my determination. He’s a disgrace.


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[TGO David]

1 hour ago, GhstFace38 said:

I’ve been a police officer for 11 years, please understand that the actions of this one man do not represent the feelings of 99.9999% of law enforcement officers. The Officers I work with would be knocking each other over to get inside that building and engage that threat.

God bless you guys for that, too.