HCP Shooting in Johnson City Tn

[Parrothead]

Anyone with first hand knowledge of the Walmart shooting in Johnson City? From what little I know, a HCP holder opened fire on someone he/she suspected of shoplifting. 

I’d love to hear some more details if anyone knows what went down.  

 

[Parrothead]

**Update—appears to be an ongoing situation**

Johnson City, TN - *Updated Press Release* On 01/26/2018 at approximately 8:12 AM, officers of the Johnson City Police Department were dispatched to Wal-Mart, 2915 W. Market Street, in reference to a shots fired call.  An investigation into the incident revealed that a patron of the business observed a white male acting suspicious while exiting Wal-Mart with several items in a buggy that were not bagged.  The patron approached the suspicious male as he was loading items into a gray Jeep Grand Cherokee and asked to see a receipt for the items.  The male jumped into the suspect vehicle as a passenger and the driver displayed what the patron believed to be a handgun and pointed it in his direction.  The patron, who has a valid handgun carry permit, fired a round from the weapon he was carrying prior to the suspects fleeing the parking lot onto W. Market Street.
A witness to the event followed the suspect vehicle onto McKinley Road off of W. Market Street for a short distance.  The driver of the suspect vehicle stopped on the side of the roadway, exited the vehicle while displaying a handgun, and ordered the witness to quit following him.  The suspects then fled the area.
The suspect vehicle is described as an early-2000’s model gray Jeep Grand Cherokee bearing Tennessee tag 6D1-5Z9.  The middle row passenger side window is covered with plastic.  It was reported stolen out of Bristol, TN on 01/21/18.  At the time of the incident, the vehicle was occupied by two males, one white and one of unknown race, and a white female.  
Officers recovered approximately $1,350 in items left by the suspects that were stolen from Wal-Mart.  No injuries or damage have been reported at this time.  
If anyone has any information in reference to this incident, please contact the Criminal Investigations Division at 434-6166, or to remain anonymous, Crime Stoppers at 434-6158.

Edited January 27, 2018 by Parrothead

[KahrMan]

Some people are just friggin’ idiots. 

[hipower]

Of this bunch...which one is the bigger?

[KahrMan]

6 minutes ago, hipower said:

Of this bunch...which one is the bigger?

The HCP holder by far. 

[Parrothead]

Wally-walk gone wrong for sure

 

 

[hipower]

Just now, KahrMan said:

The HCP holder by far. 

Yep, that's my take. Shoplifting, or suspected shoplifting is a flimsy excuse to draw, brandish, and fire a weapon. 

[Parrothead]

5 minutes ago, hipower said:

Yep, that's my take. Shoplifting, or suspected shoplifting is a flimsy excuse to draw, brandish, and fire a weapon. 

I’m afraid some people confuse a HCP with a badge. HCP is for getting yourself and your family home safe. A badge is for protecting yourself and the masses. If you have a HCP and save others in the process of protecting yourself or your family, that’s a bonus to the public. This HCP was out of line (in my opinion). It’s not his job to protect the property of Walmart. 

Edited January 27, 2018 by Parrothead

[Dolomite`s Breezy]

If Wal- mart does not care to stop a thief, why would anyone even remotely try to stop anyone.I sure as hell would not ...And the person who has the HCP should lose it.. RFQ..

[DaveTN]

7 hours ago, hipower said:

Yep, that's my take. Shoplifting, or suspected shoplifting is a flimsy excuse to draw, brandish, and fire a weapon. 

If I’m reading the story right the shoplifter pulled a gun and pointed it at him. At the point a gun is pulled it’s not a shoplifting case anymore, and it doesn’t matter WHY he was approaching the guy. I would have shot him if I thought I could get off a shot off before he could shoot me.

But yea, I wouldn’t stop them. If Wal-Mart won’t stop shoplifters I certainly wouldn’t get involved.

The shoplifter with a gun was a violent criminal and the citizen was just doing what he thought was right. Whether it’s something we would have done or not; he did it and I support him. I just hope some overzealous gun hating DA doesn’t decide to charge him with something.

If I’m reading the story wrong and a HCP holder pulled a gun to shop a shoplifter; I apologize. 

[Parrothead]

17 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

If I’m reading the story right the shoplifter pulled a gun and pointed it at him. At the point a gun is pulled it’s not a shoplifting case anymore, and it doesn’t matter WHY he was approaching the guy. I would have shot him if I thought I could get off a shot off before he could shoot me.

But yea, I wouldn’t stop them. If Wal-Mart won’t stop shoplifters I certainly wouldn’t get involved.

The shoplifter with a gun was a violent criminal and the citizen was just doing what he thought was right. Whether it’s something we would have done or not; he did it and I support him. I just hope some overzealous gun hating DA doesn’t decide to charge him with something.

If I’m reading the story wrong and a HCP holder pulled a gun to shop a shoplifter; I apologize. 

I think your right. I’m 99.9% I wouldn’t get involved in wal-marts problems but what happened from there seems to make sense. 

However, imagine if you witnessed a child/women being abused and you got involved to protect someone who couldn’t protect themselves. Same situation could still arise. I imagine your legal defense would be a bit easier than trying to bust a shoplifter on behalf of a retailer who didn’t soliciate your services. 

[n0rlf]

Play stupid games win stupid prizes. 

Lot of stupid there to go around. I am hoping there is more to the story but thinking not. 

At minimum the hcp guy should have to go through a lot of retraining before he regains his permit in my opinion. 

[DaveTN]

15 minutes ago, Parrothead said:

I think your right. I’m 99.9% I wouldn’t get involved in wal-marts problems but what happened from there seems to make sense. 

However, imagine if you witnessed a child/women being abused and you got involved to protect someone who couldn’t protect themselves. Same situation could still arise. I imagine your legal defense would be a bit easier than trying to bust a shoplifter on behalf of a retailer who didn’t soliciate your services. 

Unless the person was armed I wouldn’t pull a gun on a domestic violence suspect. I would if they were using a weapon or thought they were going to kill the victim. I am clear in my own mind what the legal requirements are for the use of deadly force. I would not stand by and watch an innocent person be attacked because I fear the legal system; I don’t.

There was a thread  (I think it was here) once asking what people would do if they saw a guy stabbing his girlfriend in a car. (I think it was a news story) I was surprised that there were some who said they would call 911 and do no more.

This is no different that the drama over people saying a cop shot a person over a joint or a traffic ticket; that is ridiculous. When the person was shot because they pulled a gun.

Protecting yourself and your family also requires that you stay out of prison; know the law.

[DaveTN]

3 minutes ago, n0rlf said:

Play stupid games win stupid prizes. 

Lot of stupid there to go around. I am hoping there is more to the story but thinking not. 

At minimum the hcp guy should have to go through a lot of retraining before he regains his permit in my opinion. 

Why? He had a gun pulled on him for simply asking a question. What “retraining” does he need?

[n0rlf]

Why focus on that part. His actions leading to that are what needs training on. That is the cause of the entire event. Had he not approached them it would not have been necessary. 

There are arguments that can be made on both sides and in many years past he would have maybe been ok. These days though it is a bad idea. Get the license plate and give it to the manager but do not get too involved 

Once he was faced with the perp pointing a gun he had cause to act but not before. He is no cop unless there is as I stated more to the story. 

[KahrMan]

Guys, reread the story.  The HCPer confronted the shoplifter in the parking lot. the HCPer then jumped into the passenger seat of the shoplifters vehicle.   That was very stupid and dangerous. 

A HCP is not a license to be a cop or a vigilante. This HCPer was a dumbass and makes all HCP holders looks bad. It perpetuates he myth that we are all wanna be cops and want to shoot someone. 

[DaveTN]

2 minutes ago, n0rlf said:

Why focus on that part. His actions leading to that are what needs training on. That is the cause of the entire event. Had he not approached them it would not have been necessary. 

There are arguments that can be made on both sides and in many years past he would have maybe been ok. These days though it is a bad idea. Get the license plate and give it to the manager but do not get too involved 

Once he was faced with the perp pointing a gun he had cause to act but not before. He is no cop unless there is as I stated more to the story. 

That’s a good idea for the Sheep, but I don’t think the Sheep Dogs will stand idly by while the Wolves take what they want. If that’s the “retraining” part I (as many others here I suspect) would fail miserably.

I’m not saying that isn’t a good idea for you; I’m saying I don’t think this guy needs retraining unless it’s because someone pulled a gun, he fired a shot, and there isn’t a shot perp laying around. 

[DaveTN]

2 minutes ago, KahrMan said:

Guys, reread the story.  The HCPer confronted the shoplifter in the parking lot. the HCPer then jumped into the passenger seat of the shoplifters vehicle.   That was very stupid and dangerous. 

A HCP is not a license to be a cop or a vigilante. This HCPer was a dumbass and makes all HCP holders looks bad. It perpetuates he myth that we are all wanna be cops and want to shoot someone. 

Maybe...

Quote

The male jumped into the suspect vehicle as a passenger and the driver displayed what the patron believed to be a handgun and pointed it in his direction. 

They are calling the shoplifter “the male” and the HCP holder a “Patron”.  I believe that says the shoplifter jumped in the passengers seat and a third party (the driver) pulled the gun. But of course I could be wrong.

[JayC]

The news article is a mess, who can tell exactly how many people were involved and what each of them did...  As a general rule I believe most law abiding citizens with a HCP are trying to do the right thing most of the time, until we get an article that explains who did what to whom, I'm going to reserve judgement.

I'd encourage everybody talking about retraining, hold fire until we have more details.

But, I'll point out that confronting somebody you see committing a crime is LEGAL in TN, and if in the process of that the criminal pulls a gun on you, you'd be legally justified under our 'stand your ground' law to use deadly force.  Whether it's smart of not, I don't think it's likely we'll see any criminal charges against the HCP holder, unless something else not reported happened.

[n0rlf]

Right does not mean correct. Not always. As a wolf I will protect my pack. With a great and curious passion D only a Marine can bring. However I realize that means I must be a smart wild as well and do what I must do I will be there to keep protecting my own. 

Had this person been shot and killed during the incident what good would he have brought his family?

In my mind it is the act of someone that wanted to play cop instead of Wolf. But again, there is usually more to the story. 

I understand the desire to bring the bad side down as it were and do agree that at some point it may come to pass that the need for such actions may arise. We are not quite there yet in my opinion and I am hopeful we will not be. 

In the end do what you must to protect yourself and your own. Leave the policing to the cops. At least for something like this. Now had it been a violent act against someone it would be different if course. 

[KahrMan]

1 hour ago, DaveTN said:

Maybe...

They are calling the shoplifter “the male” and the HCP holder a “Patron”.  I believe that says the shoplifter jumped in the passengers seat and a third party (the driver) pulled the gun. But of course I could be wrong.

It is very possible I am misunderstanding the article. Hopefully one that is a little more clear will come out. 

[n0rlf]

10 minutes ago, KahrMan said:

It is very possible I am misunderstanding the article. Hopefully one that is a little more clear will come out. 

The media never get it right. Makes it hard to think of any event in an after action report manner. We need to look at these events and learn but hard to do that with the media as our major resource. 

 

[peejman]

Risking your life for $1300 worth of crap from Walmart?  Um, no.  Get a description, take a picture, and call in guys like Jared Reston to get shot at while chasing down shoplifters. 

[DaveTN]

58 minutes ago, n0rlf said:

Had this person been shot and killed during the incident what good would he have brought his family?

In my mind it is the act of someone that wanted to play cop instead of Wolf. But again, there is usually more to the story.  

When Jared Reston (a cop working off duty as a Mall Security Officer) chased down a shoplifter, I’m sure he knew he was going to be in a fight. I’m also sure he didn’t expect it to be a gun fight until he was shot. Then it was no longer a “shoplifting” case.

I can’t make the judgment that someone needs more training whether they are a store employee, cop, HCP holder or unarmed private citizen because a criminal pulled a gun on them. I understand your point that people might need to stand by and be good witnesses, but that doesn’t mean those that choose not to do so are doing something wrong or are violating the law.

When a criminal pulls a gun, and there is someone in the area that can make them unable or unwilling to fire their weapon; so be it. They should be protected not prosecuted.

Would I stop a shoplifter stealing from Wal-Mart? No, but it’s because Wal-Mart is afraid of criminals and is okay with letting them have their way. I doubt I would even stick around to be a good witness.

[A.J. Holst]

Other than my property, I'm not likely to confront, even if I deem their actions suspicious. Suspicious behavior does not necessarily mean danger or criminal activity. 

I witness crime against property, I'm more likely report to the owner or LE than confront.

Desperate people do desperate things.

I pray I never have to witness and / or become involved in physical crimes against the sheep.

Edited January 27, 2018 by Gotthegoods