Marshall County Kentucky School Shooting

[n0rlf]

3 minutes ago, Dolomite`s Breezy said:

Looks to me a bit sheltered, does not have lots of friends.. maybe was bullied, nerdy type from looking at what he plays in band... I think parents play a role in this,.most are oblivious  to what their kids are up to now a days.How many kids do this and how many kids commit suicide because of parents who dont have a clue what is going on with their kids.

I , by NO means is excusing this kind of behavior.. he needs to sit in jail for the rest of his life.. but could this be another incident that could have been prevented?

Sorry, He does not need to sit in prison for the rest of his life. It is very clear beyond doubt he is guilty of a horrific crime. Take him out back and shoot him! That is part of the problem with these events that they are sent to prison for life. That is no longer the deterrent it used to be. Time to take away the privileges in jail and make it a bad place to go again! 

Not to mention I am tired of paying to keep people in prison for life that have no chance of ever returning to society.

 

[mikegideon]

36 minutes ago, Dolomite`s Breezy said:

Looks to me a bit sheltered, does not have lots of friends.. maybe was bullied, nerdy type from looking at what he plays in band... I think parents play a role in this,.most are oblivious  to what their kids are up to now a days.How many kids do this and how many kids commit suicide because of parents who dont have a clue what is going on with their kids.

I , by NO means is excusing this kind of behavior.. he needs to sit in jail for the rest of his life.. but could this be another incident that could have been prevented?

Rumor is that his dad died the day before. I, for one, will never excuse somebody for a mass shooting. But, some folks can be closer to the edge than others. I will find out if there is any truth to the dad rumor. Haven't talked to my sister in law yet.

[n0rlf]

2 minutes ago, mikegideon said:

Rumor is that his dad died the day before. I, for one, will never excuse somebody for a mass shooting. But, some folks can be closer to the edge than others. I will find out if there is any truth to the dad rumor. Haven't talked to my sister in law yet.

Nothing excuses this behavior! It is a failure of all involved that someone gets that close to the edge and no one steps up to assist. What a society we have become!

 

[mikegideon]

1 minute ago, n0rlf said:

Nothing excuses this behavior!

 

I agree 100%. 

[Omega]

58 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

I'm not defending what the kid did but if he was in fact picked on, the bullies share some of the blame. As do the parents if they did nothing to stop it.  There is no place for it in 2018 as we have seen time and time again what happens. 

Sorry, but being bullied does not give him any excuse for something like this.  I can see punching out one doing the bullying, but shooting up the school is not any way to go about fixing anything.  As I recall, there has always been some sort of bullying going on in school, but you just didn't have this "everyone is a winner" generation then, so they had to either suck it up or confront their bullies. We as a society have become too soft, and get our feeling hurt way too easily.

[n0rlf]

55 minutes ago, mikegideon said:

I agree 100%. 

Sorry, I did not mean to imply otherwise. I see my comment might look wrong. My apologies if that came out wrong.

 

[n0rlf]

56 minutes ago, Omega said:

Sorry, but being bullied does not give him any excuse for something like this.  I can see punching out one doing the bullying, but shooting up the school is not any way to go about fixing anything.  As I recall, there has always been some sort of bullying going on in school, but you just didn't have this "everyone is a winner" generation then, so they had to either suck it up or confront their bullies. We as a society have become too soft, and get our feeling hurt way too easily.

You are correct in that being bullied is no excuse. There is no excuse ever! And @Erik88 you are correct in that the parents of all involved should share the blame. Time to make parents accountable for their spawn is long past. Too many parents have abdicated their responsibilities to the tv, games, and internet. Dang parents need to get back into their kids lives! Teach them right from wrong because we know the Liberal arse school systems are not going to do it and it is not their job in the first place!

[Dolomite`s Breezy]

1 hour ago, mikegideon said:

Rumor is that his dad died the day before. I, for one, will never excuse somebody for a mass shooting. But, some folks can be closer to the edge than others. I will find out if there is any truth to the dad rumor. Haven't talked to my sister in law yet.

Would be interesting to find out. Of course there is no excuse for this.. he deserves what he has coming to him..

[Dolomite`s Breezy]

I think people think because I said he maybe  was " bullied".. that this is an excuse... by no means it is NOT.. Just wanted to make myself clear here. He looks overweight.. a bit nerdy maybe.. most of often kids in his skin get bullied.. that was my observation from afar. That`s all.. carry on !

 

 

[Erik88]

1 hour ago, Omega said:

Sorry, but being bullied does not give him any excuse for something like this.  I can see punching out one doing the bullying, but shooting up the school is not any way to go about fixing anything.  As I recall, there has always been some sort of bullying going on in school, but you just didn't have this "everyone is a winner" generation then, so they had to either suck it up or confront their bullies. We as a society have become too soft, and get our feeling hurt way too easily.

I thought I made it pretty clear I wasn't justifying his actions. What I'm saying is that if you have a group of people constantly picking on the fat kid year after year don't be surprised if he comes in with dad's Glock. Parents, teachers and the administration all have a responsibility to end bullying. I watched the same kids get picked on all through high school by the same group of assholes. It had nothing to do with kids being "too soft". The real cowards are the ones that felt the need to pick on those that they knew would not stand up to them. There is nothing courageous about that.

You're confusing too very different issues here. Also, keep in mind that in 2018 standing up to bullies means you will be in just as much trouble as the bully. Issues can't be resolved with a fist fight after school. Now you have kids getting arrested for fighting accompanied by a permanent record and legal fees. Times have changed. I have read accounts of someone getting sucker punched and then once they fight back they are both arrested. That is the world we live in now. 

 

 

Edited January 24, 2018 by Erik88

[Omega]

11 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

If you actually read my post you'd see that I didn't justify what he did. What I'm saying is that if you have a group of people constantly picking on the fat kid year after year don't be surprised if he comes in with dad's Glock. Parents, teachers and the administration all have a responsibility to end bullying. I watched the same kids get picked on all through high school by the same group of assholes. It had nothing to do with kids being "too soft". The real cowards are the ones that felt the need to pick on those that they knew would not stand up to them. There is nothing courageous about that.

You're confusing too very different issues here. Also, keep in mind that in 2018 standing up to bullies means you will be in just as much trouble as the bully. Issues can't be resolved with a fist fight after school. Now you have kids getting arrested for fighting accompanied by a permanent record and legal fees. Times have changed.

 

 

I read it, and again I say we have become too soft as a society.  So he was being picked on, big deal, it is not something you are going to stop, no matter how many commercials, t-shirts or posters you put up.  Kids will pick on each other, always have and always will, but us actually doing all this protecting and arresting is IMO detrimental in the long run.  With my kids, I always told them to defend themselves if the teacher didn't intervene or if the intervention didn't work.  Yes, I've had to see the teacher a couple of times, and I told them the same thing, my kids will defend themselves at all times. 

Edited January 24, 2018 by Omega
missed a word

[Someotherguy]

I remember a time when kids settled things behind the dugout at recess, and if they got caught settling it, then their butts got paddled by the principal..

 

And guess what, everyone went on with their lives..

 

And the two kids "settled it" after school in the alley behind billy's house..

 

And everyone went on with their lives...

 

The problem is kids aren't being allowed to be freaking KIDS anymore...

[mikegideon]

11 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

If you actually read my post you'd see that I didn't justify what he did. What I'm saying is that if you have a group of people constantly picking on the fat kid year after year don't be surprised if he comes in with dad's Glock. Parents, teachers and the administration all have a responsibility to end bullying. I watched the same kids get picked on all through high school by the same group of assholes. It had nothing to do with kids being "too soft". The real cowards are the ones that felt the need to pick on those that they knew would not stand up to them. There is nothing courageous about that.

You're confusing too very different issues here. Also, keep in mind that in 2018 standing up to bullies means you will be in just as much trouble as the bully. Issues can't be resolved with a fist fight after school. Now you have kids getting arrested for fighting accompanied by a permanent record and legal fees. Times have changed.

 

 

I hit some bullies in the face when I was young. I got the same beating as them from the teacher types, because it always turned into a fight (for some reason). I guess you would probably get expelled these days. Good thing I'm old. I would do it again. Best medicine for a bully is the sight of his own blood.

Edited January 24, 2018 by mikegideon

[n0rlf]

Again it comes down to rotten parenting. As usual. No surprise there for anyone unless they have there head buried in the sand up to their rectum! 

Fighting it out behind the school is no longer an option. Even if the bullied kid would it would usually wind up as the bully being the vicotr. They are the bigger kid in most cases. 

I do not have the solution but I am betting better parenting would be a darn good start.

[TGO David]

Here is my personal belief about the root cause of this:

Bullying has been a thing for as long as there has been diversity in the human gene pool.  Person One has always felt that it was fine to subjugate Person Two because Person One viewed themselves as being the stronger, more popular, smarter, wealthier, powerful, valuable or otherwise more advantaged than Person Two, or just because Person Two was different in some way and Person One was able to think of them as being "less than".

Only two forces have ever kept that in check:

1. Morals and ethics based in a belief of Right and Wrong, typically rooted in and codified in a religious belief system.
2. The threat of repercussion, typically dealt out by an authority figure.

 

I believe that we have come to a point in society where item #1 (Morals and Ethics based in a belief of Right and Wrong, especially rooted in a religious belief system) are on the decline and where people who hold to those values either already are in the minority or are trending towards being the minority very soon.   I also believe that item #2 (the fear of repercussion from the Law or an authority figure) is just as rapidly eroding.

There is very little respect for the Law these days, or for Law Officers or for Teachers or Parents or any other authority figure.

Lacking the moral compass of item #1 and the fear of repercussion of item #2, a person can be expected to have no boundaries for what behavior they feel is acceptable.  And consequently we have bullies who will bully without remorse and we have victims of bullying who will unpredictably resort to any possible form of retaliation to cease the bullying and exact revenge upon the bully.

None of this justifies anything.  It's just a description of the hand basket we're all in as we slip and slide down the slope toward Hell and anarchy.

 

Parents, Adults... teach your kids that life isn't fair.  Teach them that it sucks, that there are winners and losers and you can't always be the former.  More importantly, teach them how to be a loser with dignity and a winner with compassion.  Teach them that people can be cruel but that you don't have to let their cruelty define you, and that nothing excuses you to be a murdering asshole.  Raise children with tough skin but sensitive hearts and equip them with a moral compass.  Show them how to deal with anger productively.

[mikegideon]

35 minutes ago, n0rlf said:

Again it comes down to rotten parenting. As usual. No surprise there for anyone unless they have there head buried in the sand up to their rectum! 

Fighting it out behind the school is no longer an option. Even if the bullied kid would it would usually wind up as the bully being the vicotr. They are the bigger kid in most cases. 

I do not have the solution but I am betting better parenting would be a darn good start.

Behind the school? I always hit them as soon as they needed it.   I reckon I did get in trouble for it.

[n0rlf]

20 minutes ago, mikegideon said:

Behind the school? I always hit them as soon as they needed it.   I reckon I did get in trouble for it.

Usually the bully is a person capable of bullying in the first place and not someone that is worried about the person they are bullying standing up to them.

Now we all had plenty of disagreements that occasionally led to a scuffle. That is not standing up to a bully. Thwat was just life back then. usually a day or two or even an hour or two later it was forgotten and people moved on. 

The internet and social sites have ended those days forever! It comes down to one thing, parenting! It needs to happen and is not. From both sides.

[Erik88]

1 hour ago, mikegideon said:

I hit some bullies in the face when I was young. I got the same beating as them from the teacher types, because it always turned into a fight (for some reason). I guess you would probably get expelled these days. Good thing I'm old. I would do it again. Best medicine for a bully is the sight of his own blood.

I'm all for standing up to bullies. It worked for decades. I'm just pointing out that thanks to zero tolerance policies you are just as likely to end up in a world of trouble as the bully. My friend was a SRO at a local elementary school and told me about taking kids that young to jail for fighting. It's ridiculous. 

[TGO David]

25 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

I'm all for standing up to bullies. It worked for decades. I'm just pointing out that thanks to zero tolerance policies you are just as likely to end up in a world of trouble as the bully. My friend was a SRO at a local elementary school and told me about taking kids that young to jail for fighting. It's ridiculous. 

Agreed - it is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Erik88]

I just read some information on Reddit from someone who lives in the town. They claim the shooter's dad died the day before the shooting. He was being bullied for crying after he posed on SnapChat about his dad's death. Again, I'm not justifying what he did and who knows if these were even the same kids that bullied him. What a sad situation all around. Kids are brutal. 

[Omega]

8 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

I'm all for standing up to bullies. It worked for decades. I'm just pointing out that thanks to zero tolerance policies you are just as likely to end up in a world of trouble as the bully. My friend was a SRO at a local elementary school and told me about taking kids that young to jail for fighting. It's ridiculous. 

Yup, I was in Japan from 91'-94', it was strange dropping off my kids to what looked like a police station.  The school was a magnet school, which meant it was a rough school, at least it seems like that for magnet schools. 

I do believe we overprotect our kids, with all the coddling, and hand sanitizer we are fast becoming less resistant to hardship and germs.  I'm not saying bullies should not get checked, just that we are not doing a good thing with 0 tolerance.

6 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

I just read some information on Reddit from someone who lives in the town. They claim the shooter's dad died the day before the shooting. He was being bullied for crying after he posed on SnapChat about his dad's death. Again, I'm not justifying what he did and who knows if these were even the same kids that bullied him. What a sad situation all around. Kids are brutal. 

Yea, heard that as well.  It sucks no doubt, but I'm sure most involved had no part in it.

[mikegideon]

3 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

I just read some information on Reddit from someone who lives in the town. They claim the shooter's dad died the day before the shooting. He was being bullied for crying after he posed on SnapChat about his dad's death. Again, I'm not justifying what he did and who knows if these were even the same kids that bullied him. What a sad situation all around. Kids are brutal. 

I heard that too. But, the pictures I posted came from the shooter's step sister. She isn't saying that. It's not a town. The school is out in the county. My brother and sister graduated from there.

Bullying or no, he's gonna be charged with murder. David will tell you, that area is full of good, compassionate christian folks. With that said, he will most likely go to prison for life. I think the Heath shooter did.

[TGO David]

8 minutes ago, mikegideon said:

I heard that too. But, the pictures I posted came from the shooter's step sister. She isn't saying that. It's not a town. The school is out in the county. My brother and sister graduated from there.

Bullying or no, he's gonna be charged with murder. David will tell you, that area is full of good, compassionate christian folks. With that said, he will most likely go to prison for life. I think the Heath shooter did.

I concur on all points.  The Heath shooter, Michael Carneal, is now 34 years old (if my math is right) and is serving a life sentence.  He was 14 when he went on his killing spree, so only a year younger than the MCHS shooter.  I can't imagine the system would be any more lenient today than it was 20 years ago.

The matter of the MCHS shooter's dad reportedly passing away the day before the event should be largely irrelevant.  There isn't a line that we can cross where it suddenly becomes justifiable to engage in a mass homicide because you were picked on.  That said, I think we can expect that his defense attorney(s) will try to play that angle and at least petition for him to be found not guilty by reason of temporary insanity.

Temporary insanity isn't an eraser.  It doesn't undo what he did.

[Omega]

7 minutes ago, TGO David said:

I concur on all points.  The Heath shooter, Michael Carneal, is now 34 years old (if my math is right) and is serving a life sentence.  He was 14 when he went on his killing spree, so only a year younger than the MCHS shooter.  I can't imagine the system would be any more lenient today than it was 20 years ago.

The matter of the MCHS shooter's dad reportedly passing away the day before the event should be largely irrelevant.  There isn't a line that we can cross where it suddenly becomes justifiable to engage in a mass homicide because you were picked on.  That said, I think we can expect that his defense attorney(s) will try to play that angle and at least petition for him to be found not guilty by reason of temporary insanity.

Temporary insanity isn't an eraser.  It doesn't undo what he did.

You know, that has always been something I never agreed with.  Insane?  Lock them up for life, not "treat" them then let them loose.  They should be sent to an insane asylum with heavy security and if "fixed" do the trial then.

[MacGyver]

I hurt for these victims and their families.

I often think that in trying to protect our children and keep them safe as much as we do these days, in some ways we've done them a disservice.

The bully plays an important place in a child's development - and when we step in to deal with it as adults, we might just be depriving our children - and the bullies of important lessons.

Life isn't fair. It's full of people who will abuse their power to pick on the weak. It's important to learn the skill of standing up - that it has consequences, and you might get hurt - but it's worth it.

It's also important to let bullies try it out - and maybe some of them will figure out that it doesn't feel good in the long run.  Maybe some of them will get hit in the nose.  Regardless, most bullies historically have learned that there's always someone stronger than you.

But, we've screwed this up - we've tried to keep our kids from experiencing any discomfort - and don't let them work through things on their own.  We shouldn't be surprised that we see escalations.

As a forensic investigator - online cyberbullying definitely adds a different component - that often amplifies the problem.  There's not really a solution here other than to be aware of your child's use of technology and a lot of conversations about these hard topics.

By the time they're in middle school it's too late.