New signage laws as of 1/1/2018

[Oh Shoot]

2 hours ago, macville said:

Would my two bolded changes make it extremely clear to everyone that you would need to be asked to leave first by an LEO before you could be charged under 1359? I ask because I am pretty sure Andy Holt would be open to language changes that would make the law clearer.

What would compel the LEO to ask, rather than arrest you? Still his choice, even with your added wording,  just like now.

 

1 hour ago, DaveTN said:

I don’t think a Police Officer should have to be dispatched to do what an owner or employee could do if they so desired.

Citizen's arrest if you don't comply?

Most store personnel don't want to confront a gun toting person. That's why the law sucks, they can be passive about it unlike in some other states, and just call a cop because it's against the law from the gitgo.  And again, that makes posting more likely IMNSHO.

- OS

Edited February 5, 2018 by Oh Shoot

[macville]

3 hours ago, DaveTN said:

I don’t think a Police Officer should have to be dispatched to do what an owner or employee could do if they so desired.

But an officer is the one who issues a trasspass warning in any other trasspass situation, why not in this case?

[macville]

2 hours ago, Oh Shoot said:

What would compel the LEO to ask, rather than arrest you? Still his choice, even with your added wording,  just like now.

 

Citizen's arrest if you don't comply?

Most store personnel don't want to confront a gun toting person. That's why the law sucks, they can be passive about it unlike in some other states, and just call a cop because it's against the law from the gitgo.  And again, that makes posting more likely IMNSHO.

Then how would you write it so it's obvious you have to be asked and refuse to leave before you could be arrested? I could see moving "first" to before "being" but that's it. I think it's pretty clear that to violate 1359 you have to be asked and then refuse to leave.

 

Unless I am mistaken, and I don't think I am, it had to be a felony to do a citizens arrest.

 

I agree that the posting law makes it far more likely that businesses will post and only pulls police away from stopping real criminals. I think 1359 should be deleted entirely but our reps don't seem to have the balls to actually follow our constitution (although, haslam has had them strangled for the past 8 years...)

[DaveTN]

57 minutes ago, macville said:

But an officer is the one who issues a trasspass warning in any other trasspass situation, why not in this case?

Because a trespass warning means you can’t come back or you will be arrested. Being asked to leave is not a trespass warning. But it probably would be accompanied by a trespass warning if the cops have to come out to give it.

I don’t want the cops called on me for any reason. If I happen to walk past a sign, and if someone happens to see that I’m armed, I don’t want the business owner to think they have to call the cops for me to have to immediately leave.

[Oh Shoot]

58 minutes ago, macville said:

Then how would you write it so it's obvious you have to be asked and refuse to leave before you could be arrested?....

. I think 1359 should be deleted entirely....

You answered your own question.

The other alternative is like any number of other states do it. I.e., gun signs don't have the force of law per se, and you must be asked to leave, facing a possible trespassing charge if you don't.

But to do that, the law can't be based on it being a crime to walk past a sign from the gitgo.

TN is one of a minority of states that begins all gun possession law with the fact it is illegal to have a loaded one period. ("A person commits an offense who carries, with the intent to go armed, a firearm or a club.") Then gives a bunch of exceptions in various situations. Then tells you where you still can't even with some of those exceptions. Etc.

It's all backassward.

- OS

[spclopr8tr]

As someone mentioned previously, in TN it is not a right to carry, it is permission. And with the permission comes a crap load of restrictions. Some restrictions get eased, but it seems they are outnumbered by those that get more strict.