In urgent need of security camera suggestions

[Ronald_55]

I have toyed with the idea of cameras for a while. My kids end up depending a few hours alone at home a week after school due to schedules. My daughter spends more by herself than when my son is there. A recent incident has caused me to kick that research into high gear. I have looked at several on all price ranges. So far I am not sold on any. 

Here are the specs I know I want so far:

Must interface online

I prefer wired power even though it is less conenient. Recharging batteries sound like a recipe for disaster with my memory. Video interface could be wireless or wired. If I have to wire power, then video cable is not much additional. 

Prefer some type of low light feature and quality better than those grainly liquor store pics you see on the news.

Must be able to text or email or notify via app when a camera is triggered. Motion detection is the most probable trigger. Would like if multiple people can be alerted at once. Live video view would be nice too.

I would like if I had a decent amount of time to review recordings. Some online services only keep a short time unless you manually download the video. Dual recording to a local DVR and online would be great. At least one camera may be mored for an overview without triggers.

I have also looked at home brewing this with a linux setup called ZoneMinder that accepts pretty much any camera, but I would prefer not to have to build it from scratch. That normally ends up frustrating the lady of the house because wants just click and view type access with no vpns, no laptop/desktop only access, and not having me to have to get her the video. 

I would like to avoid something like Comcast/xfinity service to do it. They just resell someone else's solution at a markup anyway.

Needs to be affordable. I want maybe 4 cameras.  I can't sink $5000 into this even if a system like that would do everything I could ever want and more. 

If you have read this far, this is less for a security system and more for surveillance. The incident above involved my teen daughter. We are having to clamp down even more on her online access due to disrespecting our rules. We have a time limiting app on her phone that does a small amount of security and app control. We just put a full fledged surveilance app on her phone due to catching her in several lies involving an 18 year old (she is 14). The next day she had a boy/man (age unknown) drop her off a second phone that we would not have access to review. That screams volumes about that person's intentions. We have been more than fair even though we are stricter than some of the "fun" parents her friends have. Of course those parents would pretty much hand their kid a bag of weed, a bottle of liquor, and a box of condoms and call themselves great parents. My wife is at her wits end but has been taking care of this because she says I go overboard. My thoughts on it are a lot harsher for her and this person especially if they are 18 or over. I just miss my little girl that actually seemed to care what we thought.

On an upside, I now have a factory reset iPhone 5 that I doubt anyone is gonna claim. 

Thanks in advance. Maybe you guys can help me from pulling out the rest of my hair. Lol

[davidj]

I have no teens but raised two through those years.

i have ADT Pulse and it works great and not as expensive as I first thought. I also have Ring installed and it works great too. 

Look into them and keeo your $5000.

[MacGyver]

I would also suggest a device like Circle to limit internet at home and monitor access:

https://meetcircle.com/

They were bought by Disney, but they’re great devices - especially for the sub-$100 price point.  You can get them at Target

[R1100R]

I have been using Yi camera's. I have four of them and been quite happy. Sold through Amazon.

[Ronald_55]

24 minutes ago, MacGyver said:

I would also suggest a device like Circle to limit internet at home and monitor access:

https://meetcircle.com/

They were bought by Disney, but they’re great devices - especially for the sub-$100 price point.  You can get them at Target

So these only woek while ther are on wifi? Her phone has data, so she often uses it instead of our Wi-Fi. At least until data runs out.

19 minutes ago, R1100R said:

I have been using Yi camera's. I have four of them and been quite happy. Sold through Amazon.

How do you like the app and online access? Is there a monthly fee for it?

[nightrunner]

Not sure but @dralarms might know something pertaining to this 

Sorry I can’t help with your situation, but I wish you the best of luck. I don’t have children but I can’t imagine the frustration it is causing you.

Edited January 6, 2018 by nightrunner

[R1100R]

48 minutes ago, Ronald_55 said:

So these only woek while ther are on wifi? Her phone has data, so she often uses it instead of our Wi-Fi. At least until data runs out.

How do you like the app and online access? Is there a monthly fee for it?

App and online works great. Only fee if you want to store to their cloud. Use SD cards and store your own.  There fees are cheap though.

[dralarms]

What I would do is go to Sam's club or costco, and get their 8 camera wired kit ( get the name brand, stay away from swan, or any other off the wall brand). Sams sells a Samsung kit that comes with 8 camera and it capable of 16 for around 1000.00. All "professional" companies are going to charge 4 to 5 time more. 

[DaveTN]

I researched them and it came down to NEST or ARLO. I picked NEST simple because ARLO is rechargeable and I didn’t want to mess with that. NEST just plugs into an outlet and needs access to Wi-Fi.

NEST has the highest subscription rates. Its $100 a year for the first camera and $50 for each additional. I pay $150 a year for 2. But you get 10 days of recording, can download and save the recording if you want, you can get instant notifications on your phone, email or both. You can communicate with people though the camera with your phone.

The wife got them on sale at Target, buy one get one half off. (About $300 for two cameras on sale, they are $200 each usually, B&H has a 2 pack of outdoor cams for $312.) I had to buy one indoor and one outdoor to get that price. I would have rather had two outdoor cameras as they will work either indoor or out, but that was the deal. My indoor camera looks out the window, unless I take a trip.

Video quality and audio is excellent. The indoor Cam is on a stand and can be hidden or is pretty unnoticeable.

There is a guy online that has a video on how you can set-up the NEST cameras to record to a hard drive without a subscription. But with the notifications and online storage; I just decided to pay the yearly fee.

Good luck with your search.

Edited January 6, 2018 by DaveTN

[MacGyver]

2 hours ago, Ronald_55 said:

So these only woek while ther are on wifi? Her phone has data, so she often uses it instead of our Wi-Fi. At least until data runs out.

How do you like the app and online access? Is there a monthly fee for it?

They’ve got an app for the phone as well. Seriously, if you’ve not enabled parental restrictions on the device, you should.  IOS has great controls that can really lock it down.  

As a forensic investigator, I can tell you that you should really think long and hard before enabling a camera on a 14 year old’s device.  

We took part in a research project not too long ago that found that over 60 percent of eighth graders we surveyed had already been asked for nude pictures.  

Have you considered a flip phone? 

 

[TGO David]

I would have taken the phone provided by the older man straight to the police and let them nail the SOB. Is this not still an option?!

[Ronald_55]

1 minute ago, TGO David said:

I would have taken the phone provided by the older man straight to the police and let them nail the SOB. Is this not still an option?!

At this point I cannot prove who provided it except for an Instagram message she send telling whoever that I found the phone. It easily could be another high school kid. The name does not connect up with anyone we know of and it not a normal contact for her in Instagram. The phone could also be a used purchase, so no way to tie it to anyone. The SIM has been removed and she was Googling how to buy one. 

My wife also is basically telling me to let her handle it. That will not fly if I do find out this person is 18. 

28 minutes ago, MacGyver said:

They’ve got an app for the phone as well. Seriously, if you’ve not enabled parental restrictions on the device, you should.  IOS has great controls that can really lock it down.  

As a forensic investigator, I can tell you that you should really think long and hard before enabling a camera on a 14 year old’s device.  

We took part in a research project not too long ago that found that over 60 percent of eighth graders we surveyed had already been asked for nude pictures.  

Have you considered a flip phone? 

 

We use android and the app we have had on it does great, but does not catch sent messages and such. That is the reason for the new app. It seems not to be working, so I have to get her phone and work on it. My wife made the mistake of telling her all it can see. I just wanted her to think it was another time control option. 

I do IT and I see all the crap that kids put out there even though I don't do social media. I think all kids should be blocked from it for lots of reasons. One girl on her cheer sqad got suspended for sexting in 6th grade and a girl she used to cheer with got suspended this year. This last one must have been huge due to the amount of time. That girl's mom is a local celebrity and her and her sis are pagent winners. No way that did not hurt her reputation.  Up until recently my wife thought she had it all under control with the way she had it. 

Up until we swapped to T-Mobile she had a slider dumb phone. My wife decided to give her a smartphone when she set up the plan. Of course short of actually blocking the camera like you said, even a dumb phone can text. 

One question for you. I have been reading that you can retrieve snap chat pics from a phone by digging into a system directory and renaming files. Any idea on that?

[MacGyver]

I’m going to say this as someone who has worked more assault cases than I can remember.  

Snapchat does not belong on a 14 year old’s phone.  Full stop. 

You’ve got someone else delivering her a device, she’s googling how to get a SIM card and lying to you and your wife about it. There’s more going on than you know - and she’s in over her head.  

Our kids are always going to be smarter than us about technology.  You’re not going to get out in front of that.  But, we’re smarter than them about life. You’ve got to come to some type of understanding.  

It’s possible to recover some Snapchat data depending on the version and the particulars of the device, but it’s unlikely.  

You should consider blocking access to the camera, uninstalling any social apps and then locking the device so that she can’t install new apps.  

I’d make sure you have geolocation turned on as well.  We’ve used it to find more than one teen - most of them before it was too late. 

If you do find out that this is an adult, you should consider getting law enforcement involved. 

[Garufa]

Listen to MacGyver.  

Have a serious discussion with your wife and daughter letting them know that it stops now.  I would still contact the law and let them tell you how to proceed if the situation is that bad.  

While problems such as this are not localized it is as big a problem in ET as meth and prescription drugs.  

Edited January 7, 2018 by Garufa

[peejman]

 

 

Sorry, first thing that came to mind. 

Seriously though... 

54 minutes ago, Garufa said:

Listen to MacGyver.  

Have a serious discussion with your wife and daughter letting them know that it stops now.  I would still contact the law and let them tell you how to proceed if the situation is that bad.  

While problems such as this are not localized it is as big a problem in ET as meth and prescription drugs.  

... this x1000. 

It could get ugly fast. You've still got time to get your arms around this, security cameras can wait. 

[Garufa]

1 minute ago, peejman said:

 

 

Sorry, first thing that came to mind. 

Seriously though... 

... this x1000. 

It could get ugly fast. You've still got time to get your arms around this, security cameras can wait. 

That is exactly what I was thinking!

[peejman]

1 minute ago, Garufa said:

That is exactly what I was thinking!

Right. Cameras are great at detecting things. Preventing them in the first place is far better. 

[Jeb48]

I have not pulled the trigger yet but I am think of installing some Blink cameras. Fairly cheap and free video storage and contact up to a certain number of minutes of video then it writes over the oldest videos. Indoor and outdoor cameras can be mixed on same account. Wireless install makes it easy. My son has a couple of these cameras and has been happy so far, but they have only been installed a few weeks.

https://blinkforhome.com/

[DaveTN]

In reading this as a former Cop and a Father…Do you suspect there is someone else involved besides the 18 year old?

[Ronald_55]

I have no real idea. I have let my wife deal with this in the past since she is the social media person. That was our agreement since I am "too crtical".  Now that I have the surveilance app up,  I can see her Snapchat notifications, but not messages. 100% boys. Having a serious discussion with my wife about the need to kill her access. My wife has access to all her other apps and logins. 

The problem with my wife is my daughter screams something mean and she gets upset. I could care less. She can hate me if she wants. I am her parent not her friend. 

It used to be so much simpler when you could shoot the boy you caught crawling in your daughter's window. Now they come right on in digitally. There is no footprint because a lot of these kids seemed to have stopped Facebook and other outlets that can be checked. I am usually d@mn good at tracking people down otherwise.

Some days I realize I should have just grown old alone. 

[peejman]

Jump in, get involved, be the bad guy. Not to be too critical, but mom isn't getting the message across. Hopefully they'll both thank you later. 

[analog_kidd]

My first thought about the phone camera is to take some sandpaper to the lens. It'll ruin the camera, but it is your phone to ruin.

I would also look at the logs of your router to see if that gives any indication of her Internet activity, or if there are unknown devices connecting, such as a contraband cell phone or tablet. Every router I've seen has a list of connected devices in it somewhere. You can even set allowed MAC addresses, which will block everything else. See about pointing your router's DNS lookup to one of those safe site only DNS services. It'll block known bad sites, and should work for everything that connects to the WiFi. I used host files on our home PC's to reroute sites like Facebook to 127.0.0.1, or even better, some other site. Then play dumb when the page won't load. 

Most definitely lock down the router password. Nobody but you and the wife should know the password. And change it every so often. Don't forget about the guest network too. And look to see if the neighbors have anything that can be connected to, especially like the Xfinity or ATT guest connections.

Not as relevant today, but when my kids were young, the only PC with Internet access was in the living room, and there was a password on the PC. Kids did not get to use it unless we were in the room.

As long as they are acting out, a child needs to have no expectation of privacy. Search her room whenever you want. A friend of mine removed the door from his son's room for a while.

[TripleGGG]

My brother had a similar problem with one of his daughters.  He took her cell phone for 30 days.   He was "the most hated dad in America".  Then when she earned it back the phone was put on his nightstand after 8 or 9pm (can't remember).  He and his wife were all up in her business "ALL THE TIME".  He was never afraid to pull her car, phone, whatever it took.  He said his only goal at the time was to get her to graduate high school and for her to not get pregnant.  He wasn't looking to be friends with her or anyone else.  At times his wife would say he went too far.  She graduated and is now on her way to a field in nursing.  No kids.  And the best thing is they have a very strong relationship.  So many people being a parent means you have to be a friend or your kids will run.  I disagree.

Edited January 7, 2018 by TripleGGG

[Ramjo]

I feel your pain. Although I am not a parent, I lived at home through the years of my sister growing through that age. She did a lot of the same, had a second phone we didn’t know about, too. A security system would have prevented her from sneaking out, but we just didn’t have it at the time. She finally got caught coming back in one night. Thankfully she never got pregnant and the douche she was nuts over cheated on her enough that she finally let that go and calmed down quite a bit. You seem like you have time to grab the situation by the reins before anything goes that far.


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[Raoul]

1 hour ago, analog_kidd said:

My first thought about the phone camera is to take some sandpaper to the lens. It'll ruin the camera, but it is your phone to ruin.

I would also look at the logs of your router to see if that gives any indication of her Internet activity, or if there are unknown devices connecting, such as a contraband cell phone or tablet. Every router I've seen has a list of connected devices in it somewhere. You can even set allowed MAC addresses, which will block everything else. See about pointing your router's DNS lookup to one of those safe site only DNS services. It'll block known bad sites, and should work for everything that connects to the WiFi. I used host files on our home PC's to reroute sites like Facebook to 127.0.0.1, or even better, some other site. Then play dumb when the page won't load. 

Most definitely lock down the router password. Nobody but you and the wife should know the password. And change it every so often. Don't forget about the guest network too. And look to see if the neighbors have anything that can be connected to, especially like the Xfinity or ATT guest connections.

Not as relevant today, but when my kids were young, the only PC with Internet access was in the living room, and there was a password on the PC. Kids did not get to use it unless we were in the room.

As long as they are acting out, a child needs to have no expectation of privacy. Search her room whenever you want. A friend of mine removed the door from his son's room for a while.

There's a load of good advice in this post.