Goodbye Russian ammunition

[Dolomite_supafly]

Our Republican congress has passed sanctions that will affect the importation of Russian ammunition. If you shoot ANY ammunition that is made in or imported from the Russian republics this will affect you. Tula is the biggest brand that is going to be banned but it will also affect a lot more brands as well. It requires Trump to put into effect five different sanctions. Any one of the list would greatly affect us but he must choose five off the list. That ensures we will never see this ammunition again. Remember this was passed by "conservative" representatives WE put into office.

Our representatives are the ones who banned VEPR rifles and now they are going to ban a lot more things, including ammunition, from importation. Baikal, manufacturer of budget shotguns will also be banned form import.

Here is a list of companies that are banned from doing business in the US. It also has a list of the sanctions that will be imposed on those companies come January 29th. https://www.whitecase.com/publications/alert/state-department-identifies-parties-operating-defense-and-intelligence-sectors

The sanctions were voted on and passed by the congress that WE put in office and will go into affect 29 January. So once again our "conservative" leaders have screwed over gun owners. I am telling you they want the populace unarmed so they can exert even more control over us. That is why they are refusing to do ANYTHING to advance gun rights, unless it gives them control over us or increases their personal wealth. There is plenty of pro gun legislation they could easily pass, with popular opinion, yet they refuse to do so.

Washington is corrupt and broken as well as almost every single representative in our state. I am done voting for any conservative because they have continued to lie, cheat and steal their way into office and once there they refuse to listen to those they represent. Four years, that is how long I have been trying to get a response from one of my representatives, four years. They have zero interest in listening to those who have elected them. It sickens me to think I voted for them the last election, I will not make that mistake ever again. So from now on I am no longer voting party lines, if it has an "R" next to its name I will not vote for them. If no independent is on the ballot I will default to voting for a "D". I would rather deal with a "enemy" that is honest about what they are trying to steal rather than a "ally" who steals from me when I am not looking.

 

[Omega]

You know, on a quick reading of the actual wording I can't say I'm against it.  While it sucks that we will lose access to "cheap" ammo because the manufacturer gets tied up in this, the action in and of itself has merit.  And with as much ammo that is already here, there will still be a good supply of it around.  And when the industry sees the decline in export sales, maybe it will spark more new companies to start producing to fill that void, heck it may even get some US companies filling in the gap.

[deafdogdief]

Quick read for me, too. There’s a lot of meat in there. I understand your view and agree to some point. It has never made sense to me, though, why we import the same stuff that is purposely being sold by the same people to people shooting it at our troops globally.


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[deafdogdief]

Dolomite, I know you are much more well-read than I am and I defer the expertise to you on this. Maybe you could even clear up the misunderstanding if I have one.


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[shotgunshooter]

I've been keeping up with the updates from AKOU and it is a good possibility but we don't know. There are something like 10 sanctions that could be imposed and Cheeto Jesus only has to impose 5 or more. Certain ones wouldn't be that bad for us. Posted pictures below.

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[Hozzie]

While I am sure there are many reasons this is just politics, etc, I don't have an issue with it.  I know many are single issue people and that's ok, but most of those people are also the same group that talks about buying American, etc, etc.  We are a fickle bunch.  Most American's want everything as cheap as they can get it and then when the cheap things get taken away we complain.

This does not prevent anyone from getting the ammo they need.  It will reduce the amount of super cheap ammo, but ammo will be available.    

[monkeylizard]

Queue hoarding runs on ammo in 5 . . . 4 . . . 3 . . . 2 . .

[shotgunshooter]

While I am sure there are many reasons this is just politics, etc, I don't have an issue with it.  I know many are single issue people and that's ok, but most of those people are also the same group that talks about buying American, etc, etc.  We are a fickle bunch.  Most American's want everything as cheap as they can get it and then when the cheap things get taken away we complain.
This does not prevent anyone from getting the ammo they need.  It will reduce the amount of super cheap ammo, but ammo will be available.    

Depending on who is banned will depend on what ammo is banned. If it's all Russian ammo 5.45 is dead and 7.62 will be extremely expensive. I'll keep my AKs but it'll be harder to shoot them if it happens. I really don't want to pay .30-40 cents a round to shoot.

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[nightrunner]

I don’t support any restrictions in relation to firearms, BUT

You are shooting communist ammo through communist guns. Since when is it OK to do business with and financially support our countries arch enemy since we became a country ourselves?

We have American made AKs (not as good as Eastern Bloc but that’s why we have ARs) and domestic manufacture 5.45x39 and 7.62x39 ammo. More expensive, yes. But quality usually is.

Anyone that pays attention to politics wasn’t blindsided by this.

[Omega]

I wasn't going to comment on the politic side of things because, well, it's politics but...There is a difference between R and D, D wants to ban guns and ammo because it's guns and ammo, while this is putting pressure on companies that deal with the Russian Government, whether its IT stuff or weapons makes no difference.  I don't mind foreign made weapons, and I'll buy and shoot import ammo, but have no problem finding and using alternate sources if the manufacturers get sanctioned because of their connections.

Just like with the NFL, I have found alternate sources for my entertainment due to their support of causes I don't support, the Government can do the same with foreign companies and I'll find alternate sources there too.

[Danger Rane]

I can understand your frustration at potentially loosing a source of cheap surplus ammo Dolomite, but I think it is a BIG stretch to think these sanctions are being done to screw over gun owners. And to say that you will henceforth be voting D to spite the Rs sounds pretty dangerous. A better policy might be to ignore the R, D, or XYZ besides their names and vote based on each individual and their track record.

Its wild that even within our small group here we have those wanting to crucify the administration for colluding with the Russians while others are hating on the Russian sanctions.

I love the freedom of options we have in our country, and I fully support each of you in your choices of guns and ammo. I for one have never owned an AK or purchased a round of russian surplus ammo. I've used them extensively overseas and as an armorer of soviet bloc weapons I know they are very reliable, but I personally have a hard time wanting to own/carry what our enemy uses, especially when our home grown equipment is (in my opinion) superior, albeit often more expensive.

Just my 2 cents

[shotgunshooter]

I don’t support any restrictions in relation to firearms, BUT
You are shooting communist ammo through communist guns. Since when is it OK to do business with and financially support our countries arch enemy since we became a country ourselves?
We have American made AKs (not as good as Eastern Bloc but that’s why we have ARs) and domestic manufacture 5.45x39 and 7.62x39 ammo. More expensive, yes. But quality usually is.
Anyone that pays attention to politics wasn’t blindsided by this.

Other than Hornady I don't know of anyone who domestically produces 5.45. The thing that concerns me is that if the ammo goes away it will affect everything caliber because the Russians make a lot of calibers other than 7.62 and 5.45 that are imported.

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[Oh Shoot]

Wonder if the NRA cares if Russkie ammo gets whacked? Meaning,if they do and make a stink, DJT might change it, as he sure doesn't want to lose any more of his base support?

'Course, NRA hasn't made any stink about lifting the ban on Russkie firearms since he took office either, so ...

- OS

[nightrunner]

1 hour ago, shotgunshooter said:

 

 

Other than Hornady I don't know of anyone who domestically produces 5.45. The thing that concerns me is that if the ammo goes away it will affect everything caliber because the Russians make a lot of calibers other than 7.62 and 5.45 that are imported.

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Hornady is all I have heard of as well for 5.45.

Thing is if there is no more imported ammo, there will be a high demand and therefore more companies will start making it, whether it’s domestic manufacture or from one of our ally countries. You won’t be shooting 7.62 for the same price as .22lr, but it won’t be as expensive as current US brass case is

[Dolomite_supafly]

Wait until cheap ammunition isn't available. That void will cause our domestic "surplus" to bounce back up like it has in the past during shortages, when it can be found. It will also affect pretty much every other centerfire caliber as well. The neck beards will be buying it all up and selling it out of the backs of their 80's vans like they did with .22 for so long and we haven't fully recovered from that shortage yet. And with all the new shooters coming onboard in the last 3-5 years this will have a MAJOR impact on ammunition availability across the board.

This will affect the firearms industry across the board because people will not want to shoot their guns and guns that people know they can't afford to shoot will not be upgraded or even built or bought. Firearm accessories will loose their luster when the gun they are going on cannot be shot. The cost of attending training classes just went up substantially and for a lot of people it will be out of reach, significantly affecting that aspect of the firearms industry. I guess if you are in the business of selling reloading supplies you are about to hit the boom cycle.

Congress has done nothing to help gun owners since we had the majority and nothing positive has happened since we have had a super majority. I ask again how are they helping us gun owners? How have they hurt us gun owners? Weigh the two, I have and I see nothing positive coming out of Washington. National reciprocity? Never going to happen. HPA or HUSH, never going to happen. At least they could do no harm but they can't even do that because we are also about to loose anything that the ATF determines can increase the rate of fire, not just bump stocks. Congress could end that instantly but they are going to stand idly by as we loose another battle because they do not want to take sides or rock the boat. They would rather stand in the corner and hope no one notices they aren't doing anything rather than stand for something. Look at all the import bans enacted over the years that directly affect gun owners, they could easily lift each and every one but that is NEVER going to happen.

I am not going to lay down and give up but I am not going to support those who say they are my friend when their actions prove otherwise. I just hope there are a lot of independents on the ballot next year.

For all of those who seem to have a problem buying stuff from our "enemy", look around your house. I bet the keyboard you are typing on and the screen you are viewing it on says "Made in China". The cell phone in your pocket, Made in China. The silverware you just ate your meal with, yep, Made in China. And in case you haven't noticed China is just as communist and supplying our enemies with a lot more than these ammunition and gun companies. Russia is not our biggest threat, China is and yet we seem to buy a lot of cheap goods from them.

[shotgunshooter]

Hornady is all I have heard of as well for 5.45.
Thing is if there is no more imported ammo, there will be a high demand and therefore more companies will start making it, whether it’s domestic manufacture or from one of our ally countries. You won’t be shooting 7.62 for the same price as .22lr, but it won’t be as expensive as current US brass case is

I guess we will see I hope that domestic 7.62 comes down. I know it will take a while. It's going to be hard on the AK community regardless

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[shotgunshooter]

Wait until cheap ammunition isn't available. That void will cause our domestic "surplus" to bounce back up like it has in the past during shortages, when it can be found. It will also affect pretty much every other centerfire caliber as well. The neck beards will be buying it all up and selling it out of the backs of their 80's vans like they did with .22 for so long and we haven't fully recovered from that shortage yet. And with all the new shooters coming onboard in the last 3-5 years this will have a MAJOR impact on ammunition availability across the board.
This will affect the firearms industry across the board because people will not want to shoot their guns and guns that people know they can't afford to shoot will not be upgraded or even built or bought. Firearm accessories will loose their luster when the gun they are going on cannot be shot. The cost of attending training classes just went up substantially and for a lot of people it will be out of reach, significantly affecting that aspect of the firearms industry. I guess if you are in the business of selling reloading supplies you are about to hit the boom cycle.
Congress has done nothing to help gun owners since we had the majority and nothing positive has happened since we have had a super majority. I ask again how are they helping us gun owners? How have they hurt us gun owners? Weigh the two, I have and I see nothing positive coming out of Washington. National reciprocity? Never going to happen. HPA or HUSH, never going to happen. At least they could do no harm but they can't even do that because we are also about to loose anything that the ATF determines can increase the rate of fire, not just bump stocks. Congress could end that instantly but they are going to stand idly by as we loose another battle because they do not want to take sides or rock the boat. They would rather stand in the corner and hope no one notices they aren't doing anything rather than stand for something. Look at all the import bans enacted over the years that directly affect gun owners, they could easily lift each and every one but that is NEVER going to happen.
I am not going to lay down and give up but I am not going to support those who say they are my friend when their actions prove otherwise. I just hope there are a lot of independents on the ballot next year.
For all of those who seem to have a problem buying stuff from our "enemy", look around your house. I bet the keyboard you are typing on and the screen you are viewing it on says "Made in China". The cell phone in your pocket, Made in China. The silverware you just ate your meal with, yep, Made in China. And in case you haven't noticed China is just as communist and supplying our enemies with a lot more than these ammunition and gun companies. Russia is not our biggest threat, China is and yet we seem to buy a lot of cheap goods from them.

Bingo. You hit the nail on the head

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[Omega]

I survived the .22 shortages, mostly by subbing 5.56 instead, but I had...have plenty.  7.62x39 is ok to shoot, but it does nothing another caliber can't do better.  Of course that doesn't stop me from acting against those that would try and ban them just because they're guns. I will fight against any attack on our gun rights, but I just don't see this as one, if it even happens.  If Ruger was found to be supplying weapons to gang members, drug dealers, and other banned persons I would not see a concerted effort to shut them down as an attack on the 2A.  I do agree that our representatives need to do more, specially now that they can, but that doesn't mean we should do a 180 degree turn, no, it means we need to hold their feet to the fire.  We have the rest of Trump's term to pressure them to act on our behalf, hopefully maybe even an another term after that, but we need to make sure we want them meddling in what we ask them to meddle in.

[Dolomite_supafly]

It isn't about the caliber, it's about the availability of ammunition.

Dare I say it but this will affect more AR owners than AK owners because there are WAY more AR owners in the US.

Even if you never but or shoot cheap steel cased ammunition this will affect you because those that normally buy cheap ammunition will be forced to buy more expensive ammunition creating more of a demand, increasing the price. 

 

 

 

[Omega]

Yea, possible I suppose but even when most calibers were in short supply, I was able to buy 5.56, .308, and 9mm and many times it was pretty cheap.  

[Dolomite_supafly]

Sorry for the rant. I just get sick and tired of those who are supposed to be our allies in this fight to maintain our gun rights do things that harm those rights. Our super majority will not do one single thing to advance gun rights then when we loose control of both the house and senate they will try then use that failure as political fodder to try to get back into office. How about they do these things now to stay in office rather than wait and use it as an excuse to reelect them.

[martin5]

Amen brother!!

[n0rlf]

I think the arms and ammo import being involved is part of a larger picture. Kind of hard to carve that out without looking like part of the hypocrisy we hear about a lot. 

We do not like it when others do the same thing but when it effects is it is different? Not sure that is a sustainable position. It sucks but we will survive, stock up now, learn to reload, maybe even have to shoot other calibers more. 

Lots of alternatives to look at for this. That does not lessen the frustration but in this day and age you kind of have to plan ahead and think this is going to happen eventually. Either the way it is now or as a tool from the antis. 

In the words of Zed "Sucks, huh"

 

[martin5]

I thought zed was dead.

[A.J. Holst]

Buy Serbian?

Aim Surplus has PPU in most calibers at a fair pricing.

My experience with .30cal, .303, 7.62x25, .380, and 9mm has been good.