House bill 508

[Ccpholdertn]

With HB508 passed can local businesses still enforce their no gun on premises signs, if they do not have security or metal detectors?

[RED333]

A "No Trespass" is what a business will use.

[Oh Shoot]

40 minutes ago, Ccpholdertn said:

With HB508 passed can local businesses still enforce their no gun on premises signs, if they do not have security or metal detectors?

Private biz is not required to have security/metal detectors in any circumstance, unless they are a "permitee" of local government, whatever exactly that means.  The amendment you cite to 39-17-1314 does not affect private biz at all, except to allow them to seek damages from local gummit. Went into effect July 1, btw.

Full text of statute:

https://advance.lexis.com/documentpage/?pdmfid=1000516&crid=b8e81da4-1c9a-4686-a926-79ea64493a39&nodeid=ABNAAOAANAAO&scrollreferenceid=&config=025054JABlOTJjNmIyNi0wYjI0LTRjZGEtYWE5ZC0zNGFhOWNhMjFlNDgKAFBvZENhdGFsb2cDFQ14bX2GfyBTaI9WcPX5&pddocfullpath=%2Fshared%2Fdocument%2Fstatutes-legislation%2Furn%3AcontentItem%3A50J2-V4S0-R03M-D4GB-00008-00&ecomp=-kc_kkk&prid=d1ad9690-c62a-4530-8e1c-742a6d5695e1

 

- OS

Edited January 1, 2018 by Oh Shoot

[Oh Shoot]

56 minutes ago, RED333 said:

A "No Trespass" is what a business will use.

??

Statutorily conforming no-gun signage is still binding, and the newer standards are as of today in effect for all.

- OS

Edited January 1, 2018 by Oh Shoot

[JAB]

On 1/1/2018 at 6:10 PM, Oh Shoot said:

??

Statutorily conforming no-gun signage is still binding, and the newer standards are as of today in effect for all.

- OS

Am I misunderstanding or do you mean newer standards for no-gun signage?  If so I must have missed something that I probably need to know.

[Oh Shoot]

3 hours ago, JAB said:

Am I misunderstanding or do you mean newer standards for no-gun signage?  If so I must have missed something that I probably need to know.

New physical sign standards set in 2016 statute revision, but 1/1/18 was date for compliance for any who had already posted in the past:

"(b) 

• (1)  Notice of the prohibition permitted by subsection (a) shall be accomplished by displaying the notice described in subdivision (b)(3) in prominent locations, including all entrances primarily used by persons entering the property, building, or portion of the property or building where weapon possession is prohibited. The notice shall be plainly visible to the average person entering the building, property, or portion of the building or property, posted.

• (2)  The notice required by this section shall be in English, but a duplicate notice may also be posted in any language used by patrons, customers, or persons who frequent the place where weapon possession is prohibited.

• (3) 
  • (A)  A sign shall be used as the method of posting. The sign shall include the phrase "NO FIREARMS ALLOWED", and the phrase shall measure at least one inch (1") high and eight inches (8") wide. The sign shall also include the phrase "As authorized by T.C.A. § 39-17-1359".
  • (B)  The sign shall include a pictorial representation of the phrase "NO FIREARMS ALLOWED" that shall include a circle with a diagonal line through the circle and an image of a firearm inside the circle under the diagonal line. The entire pictorial representation shall be at least four inches (4") high and four inches (4") wide. The diagonal line shall be at a forty-five degree (45 degrees) angle from the upper left to the lower right side of the circle.

• (4)  An individual, corporation, business entity, or government entity that, as of January 1, 2015, used signs to provide notice of the prohibition permitted by subsection (a) shall have until January 1, 2018, to replace existing signs with signs that meet the requirements of subdivision (b)(3)."

- OS

Edited January 3, 2018 by Oh Shoot

[bersaguy]

This is easy for me! If there is any type of sign of any type that refers to any type of firearms restriction on the premises I just take my business elsewhere, except in goverment buildings that I am required to go in for legal business and then my gun is locked in my vehicle out of sight. I just don't feel right giving someone my money that does not believe like I do when I have other options................

[n0rlf]

Can I sue them for discrimination like the gay couple did to the baker?

[bersaguy]

3 hours ago, n0rlf said:

Can I sue them for discrimination like the gay couple did to the baker?

The baker won!!!! Remember??

[Oh Shoot]

11 minutes ago, bersaguy said:

The baker won!!!! Remember??

Actually, it's in SCOTUS' hands right now, was heard in Dec.

- OS

[Erik88]

5 hours ago, Oh Shoot said:

New physical sign standards set in 2016 statute revision, but 1/1/18 was date for compliance for any who had already posted in the past:

"(b) 

• (1)  Notice of the prohibition permitted by subsection (a) shall be accomplished by displaying the notice described in subdivision (b)(3) in prominent locations, including all entrances primarily used by persons entering the property, building, or portion of the property or building where weapon possession is prohibited. The notice shall be plainly visible to the average person entering the building, property, or portion of the building or property, posted.

• (2)  The notice required by this section shall be in English, but a duplicate notice may also be posted in any language used by patrons, customers, or persons who frequent the place where weapon possession is prohibited.

• (3) 
  • (A)  A sign shall be used as the method of posting. The sign shall include the phrase "NO FIREARMS ALLOWED", and the phrase shall measure at least one inch (1") high and eight inches (8") wide. The sign shall also include the phrase "As authorized by T.C.A. § 39-17-1359".
  • (B)  The sign shall include a pictorial representation of the phrase "NO FIREARMS ALLOWED" that shall include a circle with a diagonal line through the circle and an image of a firearm inside the circle under the diagonal line. The entire pictorial representation shall be at least four inches (4") high and four inches (4") wide. The diagonal line shall be at a forty-five degree (45 degrees) angle from the upper left to the lower right side of the circle.

• (4)  An individual, corporation, business entity, or government entity that, as of January 1, 2015, used signs to provide notice of the prohibition permitted by subsection (a) shall have until January 1, 2018, to replace existing signs with signs that meet the requirements of subdivision (b)(3)."

- OS

Forgive me but is that saying you must have A and B in order to be a legal posting or just one of the 2 options?

[Oh Shoot]

39 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

Forgive me but is that saying you must have A and B in order to be a legal posting or just one of the 2 options?

There's no "either" or "or" in there, no reason to think it's not all inclusive seems to me. First part specifies the required wording, second part the required visual.

- OS

[Erik88]

6 minutes ago, Oh Shoot said:

There's no "either" or "or" in there, no reason to think it's not all inclusive seems to me. First part specifies the required wording, second part the required visual.

- OS

That's what I thought but it seemed like overkill. That's going to be one heck of a sign. I can't think of many posted places I've seen over the years that meet the requirements.  

[Oh Shoot]

13 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

That's what I thought but it seemed like overkill. That's going to be one heck of a sign. I can't think of many posted places I've seen over the years that meet the requirements.  

Heck, the very first signage ever called for, before gun buster counted,  was several paragraphs. This one ain't so bad:

- OS

Edited January 4, 2018 by Oh Shoot

[n0rlf]

2 hours ago, bersaguy said:

The baker won!!!! Remember??

Not this Baker. 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna833321&ved=0ahUKEwimwdmWo73YAhUPSt8KHULhAOIQFgglMAA&usg=AOvVaw2m9gBGil9IIQBuhNpkxHF3&ampcf=1

[Oh Shoot]

Anyone notice that this whole signage change leaves out mention of other "weapons". Like knives?

The statute itself mentions "weapons" several times, but the signage requirement only mentions "firearms".

- OS

Edited January 4, 2018 by Oh Shoot

[Oh Shoot]

12 minutes ago, n0rlf said:

Not this Baker. 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna833321&ved=0ahUKEwimwdmWo73YAhUPSt8KHULhAOIQFgglMAA&usg=AOvVaw2m9gBGil9IIQBuhNpkxHF3&ampcf=1

The bakery in Colorado (the one before SCOTUS now) also lost in the state courts.

- OS

[dawgdoc]

Places in Chattanooga where I have seen signs meeting the new requirements:

Hunter Museum of Art

The Atrium, owned or controlled by CHI Memorial

Memorial Hospital

Erlanger Hospital (I think)

The Aquarium

The hospitals went much larger than the minimum size needed.

[GlockSpock]

Heck, the very first signage ever called for, before gun buster counted,  was several paragraphs. This one ain't so bad:



- OS

Guess I’m good, I don’t carry a Beretta or revolver of any kind.


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[GlockSpock]

In all seriousness, I take this to mean if a sign specifically does not reference 39-17-1359 it is not “valid”?


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[dawgdoc]

3 hours ago, CZ9MM said:

In all seriousness, I take this to mean if a sign specifically does not reference 39-17-1359 it is not “valid”?


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That is how I interpret it.  Lone gun busters signs should no longer be considered legal notices, in my view.

[Oh Shoot]

33 minutes ago, dawgdoc said:

That is how I interpret it.  Lone gun busters signs should no longer be considered legal notices, in my view.

Better carry a small tape measure around too, eh?

- OS

[dawgdoc]

I need to correct my self in this thread.  Previously, I though Erlanger hospital had the new signs.  Today, at Erlanger East on Gunbarrel, one of the major entrances (going into the surgery center near the valet parking) definitely did not have a statutorily compliant sign.  They had a tiny (1-2 inch square) gun buster symbol along with the "no smoking" symbol.  I think they have a much bigger sign at the ER, but not sure if it has the exact required wording.

The surgery center is part of a new wing that was built recently, so when making their decisions about posting, someone chose a sign that did not meet the new requirements.

[Grunt67]

On 1/3/2018 at 8:45 PM, Oh Shoot said:

Anyone notice that this whole signage change leaves out mention of other "weapons". Like knives?

The statute itself mentions "weapons" several times, but the signage requirement only mentions "firearms".

- OS

Well, a little stabbing never hurt anyone, right?