Precious Metals

[Murgatroy]

I searched and found a few old threads, but nothing definitive.

 

I recently decided to drop a small chunk of change into silver. It wasn't pocket change, but it wasn't a massive amount either. I haven't invested in something like this before. I normally collect toys like guitars and guns, so a new hobby like this seems fun. JM Bullion was running a deal where you get 10oz of Silver Rounds at spot. I got that and some other stuff to add to it.

 

I can't say exactly why I did it. Sure, if SHTF silver will probably be more reliable for purchasing until things stabilize. It might be neat to pass on to grandkids or something many years down the road. If prices ever skyrocket on silver for a day or two I might make a couple of bucks selling it at spot. I can sit alone in my office in the floor and roll around in all of it... 

 

Sure, it isn't as useful as my guns or guitars, but I think it is neat to have, and my wife didn't complain one lick about it. Which I am certain is a trap. But then again, it is shiny, and she is a woman.

[Garufa]

My only question with “holding” precious metals is this:  when you want to sell some are you going to get current market value?  

[i1afli]

I did the same thing last spring after a visit to the Mint in Washington and seeing all of the shiny stuff. 

Gave the kids a few Silver Eagles for their birthdays, and my daughter likes animals so I gave her some 1 oz silver rounds from some African nations that have animals on them.  Got all of mine through APMEX .

And my wife didn’t complain either  

 

[Murgatroy]

1 hour ago, Garufa said:

My only question with “holding” precious metals is this:  when you want to sell some are you going to get current market value?  

That is honestly the biggest question I have right now. My empirical experience with this is an episode of Pawn Stars where Rick paid spot to a cat that brought in like $100k of silver.

 

Overall though, I have $50k+ invested in cars that I might be able to get $20k out of. $20k in guns and ammo I might be able to get $5k out of. $10k in guitars and gear I might be able to get $2k out of.

 

I figure $10k in silver, that doesn't move, that is worth $10k ,is a worthwhile investment given my impetuous habits.

 

I see precious metals as just a worthwhile investment. Like many here, expressed or not, I rate things on a ZPAW scale. If the Zombie Apocalypse occurred, what value with this have? Guns, ammo, food, etc...  If I have 100k rounds in ammo and a year's worth of freeze dried food, why would I not have some silver in easily bartered denominations?

 

Like I told my wife, if I am crazy, tell me so. However, I don't think that based on the amount I have spent, versus my disposable income denotes me anywhere near insane. At the very least, I can roll around in all the shinyness in the floor. Alone. Where I am not judged. 

Edited January 1, 2018 by Murgatroy

[Garufa]

9 minutes ago, Murgatroy said:

At the very least, I can roll around in all the shinyness in the floor. Alone. Where I am not judged. 

That’s what it’s all about and I’m right there with you.  

[jpx2rk]

You didn't say but is your investment held at a depository or in your hands/lockbox, etc.  If held at a depository and things go south, you'll still have your silver deposit but won't be able to barter with it.  It will also probably lose some value as there would be no way to "trade" your holdings for something of value.  You could lose the entire investment due to this situation.  Having the silver in hand creates other issues as well (safe guarding it would be #1).

Silver is not much different than investing in stocks, different economic factors affect the daily price of silver or other precious metals just like the stock market.  You take risks in either form of investment.  Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. 

I don't think you're crazy to invest in silver, but I've never dealt with it, except for buying shiny stuff for the wife.  LOL  GL with your investment.

[Murgatroy]

I will have the physical cold hard bullion on my hands as soon as it is delivered. I would not have done it any other way. It will be as secure as any other physical possession I  "own."

4 minutes ago, jpx2rk said:

You didn't say but is your investment held at a depository or in your hands/lockbox, etc.  If held at a depository and things go south, you'll still have your silver deposit but won't be able to barter with it.  It will also probably lose some value as there would be no way to "trade" your holdings for something of value.  You could lose the entire investment due to this situation.  Having the silver in hand creates other issues as well (safe guarding it would be #1).

Silver is not much different than investing in stocks, different economic factors affect the daily price of silver or other precious metals just like the stock market.  You take risks in either form of investment.  Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. 

I don't think you're crazy to invest in silver, but I've never dealt with it, except for buying shiny stuff for the wife.  LOL  GL with your investment.

 

Edited January 1, 2018 by Murgatroy

[Ronald_55]

I bought some silver over the last while. Some is bullion, some is scrap silver coins. I figure it eats nothing and, as you said, if SHTF, then you have something to barter with. I have thought of trying to get a bunch of coins from the bank and sift through it to see if I find 90% silver coins. I think quarters and dimes before 1964 are.

Some of the silver I bought was in grams. Each is about the size of your finger nail. 

[Garufa]

3 minutes ago, Ronald_55 said:

I bought some silver over the last while. Some is bullion, some is scrap silver coins. I figure it eats nothing and, as you said, if SHTF, then you have something to barter with. I have thought of trying to get a bunch of coins from the bank and sift through it to see if I find 90% silver coins. I think quarters and dimes before 1964 are.

Some of the silver I bought was in grams. Each is about the size of your finger nail. 

If the SHTF no one is going to be bartering for precious metals. 

[Murgatroy]

27 minutes ago, Garufa said:

If the SHTF no one is going to be bartering for precious metals. 

If the SHTF yes, in TEOTWAWKI, no. SHTF implies that order will be reestablished. I would be willing to trade my services for precious metals in the event of a natural disaster or short term social collapse. I have a skilled trade. Even without it, I might be willing to part with some of my supplies for a valued commodity if I knew that eventually normality would return.

[Grayfox54]

If the SHTF no one is going to be bartering for precious metals.

My thoughts exactly. I know I wouldn't take any silver or gold in a SHTF situation. Barter real goods which people can use. 

If you want to invest in metals, make it lead. 

[btq96r]

2 minutes ago, Murgatroy said:

If the SHTF yes, in TEOTWAWKI, no. SHTF implies that order will be reestablished. I would be willing to trade my services for precious metals in the event of a natural disaster or short term social collapse. I have a skilled trade. Even without it, I might be willing to part with some of my supplies for a valued commodity if I knew that eventually normality would return.

You're assuming that the reestablished value of silver is within the prior value of silver to still be of use, or well above it.

Not sure how wide a gambit you see SHTF, but a new order economy, not tied to precious metals at all could emerge.  In a bid to hasten up firm control over economics, the powers that be could chose to ignore a structured trade price for silver and gold, instead only allowing legal status to the currency they mint/print for better control over what would be a fragile at best economy reasserting itself.

[Murgatroy]

I am thinking of SHTF in terms of a grid shutdown. In that aspect, myself and millions of others won't be able to depend on debit cards, credit cards or checks. Cash will rule. If we assign a spot value ($20 an oz) on silver, or similar commodities, general trade transactions will be able to continue. Even if we think in terms of a collapse like Venezuela, there will be other major powers out there to continue on. You think that China and Russia won't recognize an oz of .999% pure silver?

 

In the event of a total collapse or a TEOTWAWKI situation, my silver stockpile will be as useless as my guitars or my wife's art collection. Again, for a common day first world problem, I don't see this as a loss. I will be relying on my stockpile of food, guns, ammo and my will to survive. 

[Ronald_55]

In the short term, even in a bad situation, some people will still trade for your silver. If it all went bad, I would start to quickly trade for things to supplement my stock. It will let me fill in spaces of things directly related to the exact situation. This is just a supplement to my main stock. 

Plus you know if the it is a werewolf apocalypse. You can always make bullets. 

[Jamie Jackson]

Disclaimer: I probably don't know what I'm talking about! 

I don't own any large quantity of silver, and I ensured I had plenty of "Beans, Bullets, and Bandaids" (and skill development/training) before I put any silver back.

The majority of junk silver (pre-64) coins I purchased was during a dip back in 2008-2009 when silver dropped to around $10.00/oz. I, and a couple of buds, picked up rolls of dimes and quarters off of E-Bay at this price, no or minimal shipping cost. I would not recommended that in this day and age. We were fortunate. Silver has been pretty steady around $15.00-$17.00/oz for several years now. I view it as a means to store value (wealth) only...not as a means of investment. Just my thought processes...see Disclaimer above.

I totally agree with what's been mentioned regarding SHTF vs TEOWAWKI. Money (an item agreed upon as a means of exchange) would most likely only have value in a relatively stable economy. This is where I see my junk sliver having value in a worse case scenario. The ability to provide Food, Water, Shelter, and Security obviously come first in the context of this thread direction. I totally agree and the majority of my efforts and learning, reading, training are and have been along those lines. It's a journey, not a destination imho.

Another thought...especially with the digital age, plastic "money", and the "online" economy. Not that many people even know silver coins exist, much less the value of silver. They may well only see a dime as a dime. I think the majority of trade, use of silver in a worst case scenario would be between individuals that share this group's common knowledge (and groups or individuals like this/us). I could be wrong, but it's something I would urge all to consider. At least don't be overly surprised in the event. 

I still pick up a few silver rounds each year...not many, but the past few years I've used GainesvilleCoins dot com and JM Bullion. The do have sales or specials at times.

 

Murgatroy makes some excellent points above. This is not a Seller's Market as it relates to guns and ammo...but we are in the middle of one of the most incredible opportunities I've seen in many, many years to purchase self defense related items to fill in the holes in your stores. It's a great period for training and educational opportunities as well. TGO David's thread on 2018 goals has quite a few intelligent suggestions! imo

 

following this thread. Staying on the journey. 

[nightrunner]

From what I’ve read lately on “junk silver” ( pre 1965 dimes, quarters, half dollars), is that it is a really good buy. Seems it was in very high demand around Y2K. Still is in moderate demand due to they only made so many, albeit ALOT, and more and more is melted down every year for industrial/commercial uses. I also believe the smaller denominations will be best for trading in bad times.

 

Another thing to think about regarding the value of silver. Using milk for reference.

In 2017, a gallon of milk cost $3.31. A silver quarter is worth $3.06 and a silver dime is worth $1.22 for a total of $4.28.

20 years ago in 1997, a gallon of milk cost $2.67. A silver quarter was worth $2.15 and a dime worth $0.45 for a total of $2.60.

I would have used gasoline but it’s value isn’t keeping pace with inflation and would be an inaccurate comparison.

The value of silver outpaces inflation. If you put a $5 bill and a silver quarter and dime in your safe right now, in 20 years, the silver will buy you a gallon of milk, the paper bill won’t.

I won’t go as far as to say that silver or any precious metal is a good investment but it is a very good way IMO, to store wealth, physically, so that it has the same or more economic value in the future.

 

References:

https:http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1946-1964-Silver-Roosevelt-Dime-Value.html

http://www.coinflation.com/coins/1932-1964-Silver-Washington-Quarter-Value.html

 

//data.bls.gov/pdq/SurveyOutputServlet

 

Next to last paragraph in the pdf for 1997 silver price, then calculate for both quarters and dimes.

 

[Jamie Jackson]

Great post nightrunner. That's exactly my point about "storing" wealth or value as your explanation clearly demonstrates. Well said.

I check Coinflation daily as it accurately reflects the precious metal markets.

Edited January 1, 2018 by prag

[AuEagle]

Au & Ag on the rise. Keep an eye on the dollar index.

[tnhawk]

On ‎12‎/‎31‎/‎2017 at 9:12 PM, Grayfox54 said:

 

 

My thoughts exactly. I know I wouldn't take any silver or gold in a SHTF situation. Barter real goods which people can use. 

If you want to invest in metals, make it lead. 

Lead is usually required to protect silver and gold.  I keep some of each.

Edited January 27, 2018 by tnhawk