Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Spoilers)

[monkeylizard]

Anyone see it yet?

Anyone besides me think it sucked?

Where to begin?

The entire fleet of Resistance bombers was like what, 8 of them? Wow....I think they might be a little outgunned. And who made them so stinking slow? And why do they have "bombs" that drop out the bottom when there's no gravity? And why would they be so stupid as to arm them while they're being shot and not really about to drop them? They clearly have wireless communications, so why not arm them after they leave the bombers?

Yeah, Po's a good pilot, but single handedly taking out every single gun turret on the surface of the Dreadnought while simultaneously defeating or evading its entire TIE fleet? WTF?

Leia survives in the vacuum of space, wakes up and flies herself back to a destroyed airlock that somehow lets her in without blowing out the ship's remaining air. Wait...is this Star Wars or Superman? WTF?

The First Order Fleet mindlessly chases the Resistance cruiser for hours instead of just sending one of the star destroyers ahead of it in a small hyperspace jump. WTF?

Luke's gone from being "there's still good in him, I can feel it" about Darth Vader to "hmmm....maybe I'll kill my nephew in his sleep 'cuz you know, there's darkness in him" WTF?

They killed Snoke without telling us who he is or where he came from. Was he Sith? If so, was he one of Palpatine's trainees unknown to Vader?

What happened to Luke's students who left with Kylo, the so-called Knights of Ren?

If they can miniaturize Death Star tech into something the size of a small building, why doesn't Snoke's ship have miniature Death Star cannons on it? You know...something powerful enough that there's no need to send a landing party....just blast the Resistance in their cave from space.

Why do Snokes guards dress exactly like Japanese Samurai if this is happening long long ago in a galaxy far far away?

Luke's "dead" but his astral projection of Han's dice live on long enough for Kylo to pick them up and watch them disappear? Again....WTF?

While we're on it....how exactly did that kill Luke?

Not only can Yoda appear to someone (we knew that....and they fixed that gaping plot hole with the lame ending of Ep 3 with "oh...Qui Gon Jinn taught me how to be immortal. I'll show you too Obi Wan"), but now he can also apparently interact with the world. I suppose that's somewhat believable given the mythos of The Force in the SW Universe, but it's still hokey.

Luke finally gets it that failure is something to be learned from, so now he can go back to training Jedi and passing on what he has learned.....oops....he's dead.

Finn's story line in the whole movie was pointless and contributed nothing to what sort of passes as a plot.

Did I say Finn's story-arc was pointless? I meant to say that Finn's story-arc existed to pitch some basic anti-capitalism "rich people bad, poor people suffer at their hands" screed.

Didn't Snoke's throne room look a little too much like the Emperor's on the 2nd Death Star?

No? Then didn't the conversation between Rey and Snoke sound almost exactly like Luke and Palpatine?

No? Then didn't those trenches look just a little too much like Hoth?

No? How about the Falcon flying through red salt crystal tubes that looked EXACTLY like the Falcon flying through the 2nd Death Star, complete with a large open cavern with a center column that looks just like the power core of the 2nd Death Star, followed by the Falcon "exploding" out the tunnel to safety?

I like that these 2 new ones (and Rogue One) have more of a lived-in feel than the awful perfectly clean worlds of the prequels, and I like that they're using props and computer panels and droids that look similar to the originals, but do they really have to throw that much on-the-nose stuff at us? It's like they know this story sucks bantha balls, so they have to keep reminding us that we're watching a Star Wars movie.

Then the final scene.....how in the galaxy did those kids know anything about that battle? They're essentially slave labor on a distant planet. There's not exactly going to be a news feed about how the last scrap of the Resistance along with a not-really-there Luke Skywalker, Jedi Knight, defeated the mighty First Order. If they had been playing as Finn and Rose doing something make-believe to stand up to the First Order, that would make perfect sense.

 

 

Oh .... and you need to be a vegetarian....or at least don't eat animals that are cute.

Edited December 17, 2017 by monkeylizard

[KahrMan]

Damn dude, tell us what you really think. 

 

I liked it although I kinda ageee with you about Finn 

[bersaguy]

Well I don't have to see it now since I know most everything about it but it all honesty after watching all the parts of it they showed in commercials for last couple months i was not planning on going anyway. I am a Star Wars nut and have DVD's of every episode in Trilogies. I have not got the last two which is Rogue One and this one. I will probably buy them when they are both out in DVD just to be able to pass them down to my youngest grandson that has taken an interest in my collection.

Edited December 17, 2017 by bersaguy

[Murgatroy]

If you step back and realize that the entire film was about failure, it makes it more palatable. 

 

It hit the right notes, but was not noteworthy.

 

However, the emphasis on failure was the common theme in all the acts that brought it together.

 

Poe's failure (success) on the Dreadnought cost the Rebellion it's entire bomber fleet.

 

Luke's failure with the new Jedi created Kylo Ren.

 

Snoke's Failure at his turning of Rey and Kylo.

 

Finn and Rose's failure on the mission of deactivation the tracking device.

 

Finn's failure on the attack of the cannon.

 

Luke had a long soliloquy about failure, Yoda told him bluntly that failure was a good teacher too. It wasn't until further reflection after the disappointment I felt with the film that I realized the director's intent. That doesn't mean I liked this outing, or that I thought the overstated humor (and it was funny at several times) justified the message, but when you think about it, it makes more sense.

[monkeylizard]

Another thing that bugs me about it is that it doesn't fit with the story that started in The Force Awakens.

The original trilogy fits in one long story arc. Each one building on what the prior one established. Even the prequels were coherent and consistent with their story telling. The production, script, acting, characters, and CGI were awful, but the story told in I, II, and III fits together.

With The Last Jedi, it's like they said "hey....you know all that stuff we setup in The Force Awakens? Screw it. None of that matters. We're doing our own thing. And while we're at it....you know how the original trilogy, prequels, and everything in the Expanded Universe says that only some people are force sensitive? Screw that too. Everyone's a special snowflake who can use the Force. Even this untrained 5 year old kid sweeping the floor. Watch him make this broom jump to his hand. Never mind that Anakin at that same age (you know...one of if not THE most powerful Jedi ever) had no concept of the Force."

It's just stupid in so many ways.

Edited December 17, 2017 by monkeylizard

[dawgdoc]

All the scenes that looked like other scenes (throne room, salt Hoth, etc.) were deliberate homages to the originals.

I don't think they were saying anyone can use the force.  The final scene was to compliment Luke saying that he was not the last Jedi--implying that there will always be potential Jedi.

The orphan stable kids knowing about the battle was to show the that the legend of Luke Skywalker was going to spread even if the First Order tries to control the narrative (the tighter they clench their fist, the more that slips through their fingers, so to speak).

I wonder if Snoke's manner of death is a hint that he is no more important than Darth Maul?  He is a bad guy and that is all we need to know, perhaps?  (Not that I find that satisfying, but it may be what they are going with).  I think Snoke may just be a plot device to get Kylo Ren to be Supreme Leader, and unlike Vader (and what Rey hopes), Ren just gets worse and is never redeemed.  Luke seemed a bit POd that his father, a Jedi, caused so much trouble even if he did get redeemed.  Lei seemed to have given up on her son.  Maybe the last film will prove them right.

I'm assuming that the sheer amount of power Luke exhausted in projecting himself used all his lifeforce, and he becomes one with the Force.  Maybe Yoda disappeared because he had been using the Force to delay his natural death while waiting for Luke.

I agree that the whole casino planet escapade could have been removed without any consequence to the film.  They could wrote any number of ways for Rose and Finn to get on that ship and be utter failures.  

 

 

[Murgatroy]

I have to say that overall the character of DJ as portrayed by Benecio Del Toro was my favorite part of the film. The line about good and bad, and staying out of it was a very important part of the film. 

[monkeylizard]

12 minutes ago, Murgatroy said:

I have to say that overall the character of DJ as portrayed by Benecio Del Toro was my favorite part of the film. The line about good and bad, and staying out of it was a very important part of the film. 

I agree, and that makes me sad. Star Wars is a place where there's a light side and a dark side. Sure Ben brings up "a certain point of view" but it's not supposed to be a movie-world of cynicism. Hope, despair, joy, suffering, love, and hate, sure....but never "meh, none of it matters. Just look out for yourself". Han felt that way at the start of A New Hope but he had changed from that by the end of it, and only half-heartedly expressed that perspective in Empire. We all knew he was a good guy. It feels like the lines for DJ sum up this director's vision of the SW universe. And that's just not any fun.

Edited December 18, 2017 by monkeylizard

[dralarms]

Well that's what you get when you sell what you love to someone that only loves money. I've read the original "outlines" and 7 was a little out of the original idea, 8 is totally out there. I haven't decided if I'm happy with this one or not. Disappointed they didn't stick to the original story line. 

[hipower]

Well...all this certainly has been a real buzz kill. Guess I'll wait for the dvd release now.

[dralarms]

19 minutes ago, hipower said:

Well...all this certainly has been a real buzz kill. Guess I'll wait for the dvd release now.

Oh it's worth watching. But they sure did spin a bunch

[Murgatroy]

It was an enjoyable film no doubt. However with something of this caliber, that will be dissected to each atom, it didn't hold up nearly as well as the last outing, or the original outing. In the grand scheme of nine total canon films, it was not Episode I. It was more of an Episode II or Episode V. But not quite and Episode V.

 

For the record I do think that Ep III was my favorite, so my opinion might not jive entirely with the mainstream. I have always felt that the films were about Vader. And watching Anakin become Vader in Ep III and the slaughter at the temple (highly copied by Ben Solo and his Knights of Ren) was THE most important part of the first six films. I would also venture to say that Rogue One and it's finite ending was my second favorite outing. I like nonconventional story telling. The Hero doesn't always save the world/girl/survive/win. That doesn't make them any less of a hero. One of the reasons I like Vice Admiral Holdo's sacrifice, even if it too was a failure, as mentioned.  

[monkeylizard]

11 hours ago, Murgatroy said:

For the record I do think that Ep III was my favorite, so my opinion might not jive entirely with the mainstream.

No doubt, since Ep. V is widely held to be the best of them all. 

I agree with you about Ep III having one of the best and most important parts of the overall story. I just hated the movie production of all three prequels. Bad acting, bad scripts, and bad CGI, but all with good storie (except the midichlorian crap). Even Jar Jar could have been useful if used sparingly and wasn't written so idiotic. If Lucas could have just overseen the story arc and then gotten out of his own way, they could have been great. He's apparently pretty good at making a cohesive story arc as shown in the originals. Each one builds on what the prior one starts, and so do I-III.

With Ep VII and VIII, it feels like Disney has nobody helming the cohesion of the story arc. Everything we were fed by Abrams in VII as plot points to be further developed later got thrown away by Johnson in VIII as irrelevant. Maybe Ep IX will fit it all together.....

[C.lunn]

Saw it last night. I enjoyed it. The Leia floating in space thing was a bit much. I wish they had just killed her off. They had several opportunities and I just don't see why they kept her.

[bersaguy]

29 minutes ago, C.lunn said:

Saw it last night. I enjoyed it. The Leia floating in space thing was a bit much. I wish they had just killed her off. They had several opportunities and I just don't see why they kept her.

Well I might know why they did not kill her off. If you remember in Return of the Jedi it was revealed to Darth Vader that Luke had a Twin Sister and if he got killed off Leia would be the Last Jedi so since the title was Last Jedi they could not kill her off, at least that is the way I would look at it but I have heard a few friends talk about it that went to see it and also saw all of the earlier movies and they say this one kinda sucks.

[RC3]

On 12/17/2017 at 4:40 PM, monkeylizard said:

Anyone see it yet?

Anyone besides me think it sucked?

Where to begin?

The entire fleet of Resistance bombers was like what, 8 of them? Wow....I think they might be a little outgunned. And who made them so stinking slow? And why do they have "bombs" that drop out the bottom when there's no gravity? And why would they be so stupid as to arm them while they're being shot and not really about to drop them? They clearly have wireless communications, so why not arm them after they leave the bombers?

Yeah, Po's a good pilot, but single handedly taking out every single gun turret on the surface of the Dreadnought while simultaneously defeating or evading its entire TIE fleet? WTF?

Leia survives in the vacuum of space, wakes up and flies herself back to a destroyed airlock that somehow lets her in without blowing out the ship's remaining air. Wait...is this Star Wars or Superman? WTF?

The First Order Fleet mindlessly chases the Resistance cruiser for hours instead of just sending one of the star destroyers ahead of it in a small hyperspace jump. WTF?

Luke's gone from being "there's still good in him, I can feel it" about Darth Vader to "hmmm....maybe I'll kill my nephew in his sleep 'cuz you know, there's darkness in him" WTF?

They killed Snoke without telling us who he is or where he came from. Was he Sith? If so, was he one of Palpatine's trainees unknown to Vader?

What happened to Luke's students who left with Kylo, the so-called Knights of Ren?

If they can miniaturize Death Star tech into something the size of a small building, why doesn't Snoke's ship have miniature Death Star cannons on it? You know...something powerful enough that there's no need to send a landing party....just blast the Resistance in their cave from space.

Why do Snokes guards dress exactly like Japanese Samurai if this is happening long long ago in a galaxy far far away?

Luke's "dead" but his astral projection of Han's dice live on long enough for Kylo to pick them up and watch them disappear? Again....WTF?

While we're on it....how exactly did that kill Luke?

Not only can Yoda appear to someone (we knew that....and they fixed that gaping plot hole with the lame ending of Ep 3 with "oh...Qui Gon Jinn taught me how to be immortal. I'll show you too Obi Wan"), but now he can also apparently interact with the world. I suppose that's somewhat believable given the mythos of The Force in the SW Universe, but it's still hokey.

Luke finally gets it that failure is something to be learned from, so now he can go back to training Jedi and passing on what he has learned.....oops....he's dead.

Finn's story line in the whole movie was pointless and contributed nothing to what sort of passes as a plot.

Did I say Finn's story-arc was pointless? I meant to say that Finn's story-arc existed to pitch some basic anti-capitalism "rich people bad, poor people suffer at their hands" screed.

Didn't Snoke's throne room look a little too much like the Emperor's on the 2nd Death Star?

No? Then didn't the conversation between Rey and Snoke sound almost exactly like Luke and Palpatine?

No? Then didn't those trenches look just a little too much like Hoth?

No? How about the Falcon flying through red salt crystal tubes that looked EXACTLY like the Falcon flying through the 2nd Death Star, complete with a large open cavern with a center column that looks just like the power core of the 2nd Death Star, followed by the Falcon "exploding" out the tunnel to safety?

I like that these 2 new ones (and Rogue One) have more of a lived-in feel than the awful perfectly clean worlds of the prequels, and I like that they're using props and computer panels and droids that look similar to the originals, but do they really have to throw that much on-the-nose stuff at us? It's like they know this story sucks bantha balls, so they have to keep reminding us that we're watching a Star Wars movie.

Then the final scene.....how in the galaxy did those kids know anything about that battle? They're essentially slave labor on a distant planet. There's not exactly going to be a news feed about how the last scrap of the Resistance along with a not-really-there Luke Skywalker, Jedi Knight, defeated the mighty First Order. If they had been playing as Finn and Rose doing something make-believe to stand up to the First Order, that would make perfect sense.

 

 

Oh .... and you need to be a vegetarian....or at least don't eat animals that are cute.

You forgot a few things. One, the last bomber was on fire. In the vacuum of space.

During the long ass chase, why was the empire lobbing and arching the rounds? if they are laser, pointless. Plasma? Still pointless since they are in space and there is NO GRAVITY to make the shots fall down.

The fin and asian chick romance was completely pointless.

Space monico was also pointless. I was expecting to see james bond the whole time.

 

 

 

[monkeylizard]

I read that Rose and the casino world were added to appeal to the Chinese audience.

[GlockSpock]

Just watched it. Loved it. My Wife said it was her favorite of all of them.

 

So, they are doing something right, and let’s face it, they couldn’t appeal to everyone in the world.

 

Personally, I love the original trilogy. Everyone here is dissecting everything and critiquing it, as if the original trilogy didn’t have its own blunders scientifically.

 

Ok, so the bombs may not fall the the Starship Destroyer via gravity. Maybe they are magnetic?

 

I loved how they took their ship towards the end and went light speed towards the Starship Destroyer. That was great and I wished they had simply thought of that earlier.

 

Much to my surprise (I was betting that Snoke would offer to take Ren as an apprentice and push Kylo aside, angering him home to Luke and reconciliation and taking Rey straight to power and the dark side) I enjoyed watching Kylo take charge and not be so wimpy. Instantly jumped many points on my list as becoming badass.

 

At this point, I feel letdown that Snoke wasn’t more powerful. Assuming he is truly dead, he was worthless. I at minimum wanted some sort of backstory, and more importantly why did he look the way he did? Was he a Sith? I was dearly hoping that Palpatine had learned how to cheat death and it was him in an altered form. I would have even went with Snoke being Darth Plagueis.

 

I feel like more people, particularly bad, died than expected. Is Phasma gone? Couldn’t believe Snoke was gone.

 

Excited to see where it all ends. Looks like they doubled down on Ren being good and Kylo being bad. I was hoping for either a switcheroo, or Kylo killing Snoke and then himself dying while protecting Ren after revealing that they were twins.

 

Cannot wait for the Han Solo and the Kanobi films coming out.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

[Omega]

I liked it, but I watched it as a "seperate" movie, not depending too much on my SW knowledge.  While there were several things to nit-pik about, it was an overall good movie.  Much better IMHO than the force awakens.

[Smith]

I liked it. Yeah, there are a lot of recycled plot lines from earlier movies, but at the same time it did stay consistent with the whole balance concept. So it would necessitate recycling.

I think the Disney thought is to restart for the younger generation. My kids (all under 14 yrs) really liked it. Most of the other (older) movies confused them. They were constantly asking who people were and how things were connected. They just didn't have enough context. This movie let them start fresh while keeping a connection to the past movies.

[Champ198]

It was good but not Rogue One good.    

[peejman]

Tough crowd. I'm a frickin engineer and I've learned to accept that Star Wars is fantasy and the laws of physics are only applied when convenient.  

The bomber sequence was very 8th Air Force in 1941 esque. I'm guessing that was on purpose. 

Yes, the Leia coming back to life while floating in space was more than a little dumb. But again, this is fantasy. I assume the reason she's still around will become apparent eventually.  

I assume Luke figured he could do more good as a martyr than as a teacher. That's pretty common in history. Clearly his teaching skills were lacking anyway. Rey's got the books, she'll be fine. 

The lack of explanation of anything about Snoke is a little disappointing, but as already mentioned, I assume his character was simply a medium through which Kylo takes over.  

The points of the Finn casino thing were to introduce Del Toro's character who will reappear I'm sure, for closure between Finn and Phasma, and to show the young slave boy's powers.  

I liked it. I'm happy they're going back to more organic sets and actual props instead of everything being computer generated. Episodes 1-3 are my least favorite, and that's one of the reasons why. I'm looking forward to the next one. 

Edited December 31, 2017 by peejman

[Ray Z]

My wife and I saw it last night. We both were really disappointed. It didn't follow the story line from the other movies, bounced around so much that you couldn't follow any story line, they killed of the only character from the old movies that is still alive in real life, moved so fast you couldn't  follow what was going on. Shall I go on whining? Spent $40 for 1 popcorn, 2 drinks, and 2 tickets. Wish I had that choice to make over again.