Zarate aquited because of a "Hair Trigger".

[Will Carry]

Zarate is the illegal immigrant that shot and killed that young lady in San Fransisco. He claimed he found a bag with a gun in it and it just went off all by itself. The jury believed him and aquited him for manslaughter but gave him 2-3 years for being a felon with a firearm. The key to this "trial" was the defenses premise that the pistol, which was stolen from a LEO in Oregon, had been modified and had a "Hair Trigger". In my mind a "Hair Trigger" is not a measure of force. I would have liked to have known (had i been on the jury) how the pistol was modified. What the trigger pull was and has a gunsmith checked out this weapon to see if it had any defects that would have caused the pistol to discharge. Why the DA did not go down this path? Maybe the pistol was modified and they didn't want to go there or maybe it was a politically motivated trial to get back a Donald Trump. I also thought that cops did not modify their weapons because of potential liability in a court of law. Masaad Ayoob touches on that often in his writing. 

Edited December 2, 2017 by Will Carry

[bubbiesdad]

[DaveTN]

I feel so sorry for the family of this young woman. I can just imagine the hate and disappointment they must feel after having been let down by our legal system. This man was deported five times and the city of San Francisco let him go again. He committed murder and got away with it.

I’m not a fan of double jeopardy, but it has been done before and this is a case that warrants it. It sounds like the Feds may be stepping in and doing just that.

Hopefully the family will get the maximum allowed by law in the wrongful death case against the city and the Feds.

[bersaguy]

My heart goes out to Kate Steinly's family for their loss and the injustice they were just handed them for the murder of their daughter. As far as a Legal Dave, California does not have one for the good people left in the state. Only the criminals benefit from it. I sincerely hope that Sessions does pick it up and prosecute this scum bag to the fullest extent of Federal Law. I also hope that the Feds see fit to defund any and all sanctuary cites and states period. If you are told to hold a imigrant in your jail for ICE and you refuse and turn them loose you loose funding period. Any state or city that refuses to obey Federal laws which over rule any state or local laws should refuse all Federal funding..................JMHO

[Omega]

The thing is, he should have been charged with manslaughter or negligent homicide instead of murder.  They had the gun, knew the bullet had ricocheted off the pavement and still went for murder.  Everything else being equal, this would of never made such headlines had it not been made so politically charged.  Look at the incident here locally, hot young prostitute shoots homeless man and it only gets a few days of press.  It has many elements that could of made this story linger in the press, but nobody picked it as THE story.  Whether we like it or not, this is our legal system at work, 12 jurors decided and we need to accept it.  I don't believe in double jeopardy, if a person is found not guilty then so be it.  Do we really want the feds being able to pick and choose who they will prosecute when they are acquitted at the state level?  How about the state charging you after a city, or county trial?  No, I think they need to settle the whole jurisdiction portion before the trial and make sure they have a good case before they go for broke.  Of course this doesn't affect criminal acts across state lines such as murders committed in multiple states, but not for the same incident.

[bersaguy]

27 minutes ago, Omega said:

The thing is, he should have been charged with manslaughter or negligent homicide instead of murder.  They had the gun, knew the bullet had ricocheted off the pavement and still went for murder.  Everything else being equal, this would of never made such headlines had it not been made so politically charged.  Look at the incident here locally, hot young prostitute shoots homeless man and it only gets a few days of press.  It has many elements that could of made this story linger in the press, but nobody picked it as THE story.  Whether we like it or not, this is our legal system at work, 12 jurors decided and we need to accept it.  I don't believe in double jeopardy, if a person is found not guilty then so be it.  Do we really want the feds being able to pick and choose who they will prosecute when they are acquitted at the state level?  How about the state charging you after a city, or county trial?  No, I think they need to settle the whole jurisdiction portion before the trial and make sure they have a good case before they go for broke.  Of course this doesn't affect criminal acts across state lines such as murders committed in multiple states, but not for the same incident.

In all  honesty Omega, I don't think they wanted a murder conviction or even a negligent Homicide charge to stick. I think the state of California wanted to use this case as an example to show the rest of the country that they are the boss in that state. Right or wrong doesn't matter to them. The state got what it wanted and it came at the cost of a family losing their daughter and the Perp getting off with a slap on the wrist. I hope all illegals learn from this and flood like an exodus to California. Maybe the entire gang of MS 13 needs to move out there before Sessions gets all of them in jail. The the Feds need to cut all funding to the state completely.  Let it be an Island that is still connected only by land and nothing more...................JMHO 

[Sidecarist]

The prosecution screwed up royaly. Possibly on purpose. 

The weapon discharged three times as I understand it.

He is a felon in possession of a stolen weapon. 

He fled the scene of the crime, and I'm sure several more

I don't believe in double jeapordy for the same crime, but there are several federal statutes that he wasn't charged, or tried on. I hope he is crushed by the full weight of any federal statutes that apply.

The state, county, city, etc should cease to receive ANY federal funds for any reason immediately.  The state, county & city may also be in violation of federal law and subject to prosecution. I hope so.....

 

[Sam1]

As much as it pains me to say this... we don't know everything the jury does.  And, I am glad that a court doesn't do a popular phone vote like American Idol on cases because we may be the unfortunate one on the stand one day.

[diamondback]

I know California loves illegal immigrants but I was really surprised by the verdict. I believe he did not plan to kill her, but neither did the guy who shot a neighbor while deer hunting. His actions from breaking into the country to picking up the gun 100% caused her death and he should be held accountable. I know people are tired of the crap and I would not be surprised if we start seeing more "negative feedback" against illegals and their supporters like those two defense lawyers who try to turn this on Donald trump. It had nothing to do with him except to prove the president was right. On top of that they have several people from the Mexican consulate there ( WTF). We are really being p*ssies as a nation. He will get deported and just come back. My opinion we should send him back with half his foot cut off. Illegal immigration will not stop until we get tough with them and I am sorry if that offends anyone.

[nightrunner]

We have a legal system and this is how it works.

We haven’t had a justice system for a very long time.

[bersaguy]

14 hours ago, nightrunner said:

We have a legal system and this is how it works.

We haven’t had a justice system for a very long time.

I'm beginning to wonder about the legal system you speak of. The Perp broke the law 6 times by coming here illegally. Then kills a young lady and the legal system charges him with 3 different death related charges which any one of them would have possibly got him life in prison but the only charge that stuck was a weapons possessions charge, more or less a smack on the wrist. Where is the legal system involved for Kate Steinle at all? Where is the legal system for her family? She had a legal right to life, liberty and persuit of happiness and that was taken from her by a felon illegal Imigrant. She was taken from her family illegally. So where is there any real legal system you speak of?  

[JAB]

On 12/2/2017 at 3:34 PM, Sidecarist said:

The state, county, city, etc should cease to receive ANY federal funds for any reason immediately.  The state, county & city may also be in violation of federal law and subject to prosecution. I hope so.....

 

I would like to see a double whammy - the state, city, county, etc lose federal funding and the family of the victim win a case in which they sue the city and county, at least, into oblivion.  We always hear how it is the taxpayers who are footing the bill when someone gets a big payout in such a case.  Well, maybe this will inspire the local taxpayers to elect officials who know what the word 'illegal' means - especially if the lawsuit depletes coffers to the point that the city/county can't afford to pay for the law enforcement to protect them from said 'illegals' and other criminals - the same law enforcement that let Zarate go so he could be on that pier in the first place.

[JAB]

On 12/3/2017 at 3:06 PM, diamondback said:

I know California loves illegal immigrants but I was really surprised by the verdict. I believe he did not plan to kill her, but neither did the guy who shot a neighbor while deer hunting. His actions from breaking into the country to picking up the gun 100% caused her death and he should be held accountable. I know people are tired of the crap and I would not be surprised if we start seeing more "negative feedback" against illegals and their supporters like those two defense lawyers who try to turn this on Donald trump. It had nothing to do with him except to prove the president was right. On top of that they have several people from the Mexican consulate there ( WTF). We are really being p*ssies as a nation. He will get deported and just come back. My opinion we should send him back with half his foot cut off. Illegal immigration will not stop until we get tough with them and I am sorry if that offends anyone.

Deport them?  Nah.  Arrest them, bring back chain gangs/work gangs and put them to work doing the grunt work of building the wall.  That would be one way to make Mexico help build the wall.

People who come to the U.S. legally to make a life for themselves and families should be lauded.  Those who illegally invade should be punished - and just because someone gets away with it for years or even decades doesn't mean they should not be punished when caught.  The current attempts to equate opposition to illegal immigration with opposition to all immigration as well as racism in order to present those who oppose illegal immigration as racist are disgusting to me.  I also get tired of hearing about 'non-criminal' illegals.  There is no, such thing.  Illegal means just that - they are criminals by being here.  Treat them as such.

Edited December 4, 2017 by JAB

[bersaguy]

3 hours ago, JAB said:

Deport them?  Nah.  Arrest them, bring back chain gangs/work gangs and put them to work doing the grunt work of building the wall.  That would be one way to make Mexico help build the wall.

People who come to the U.S. legally to make a life for themselves and families should be lauded.  Those who illegally invade should be punished - and just because someone gets away with it for years or even decades doesn't mean they should not be punished when caught.  The current attempts to equate opposition to illegal immigration with opposition to all immigration as well as racism in order to present those who oppose illegal immigration as racist are disgusting to me.  I also get tired of hearing about 'non-criminal' illegals.  There is no, such thing.  Illegal means just that - they are criminals by being here.  Treat them as such.

I agre with you JAB, but until we can get a Supreme Court that will do their job it won't happen. The Supreme court was the one that ruled back in 1973 that making convicts work was against the law because there punishment was being locked up and to make them work while locked up was against the law and soon there was no more stripes and the got Cable TV, A/C in their cells and top of the line medical attention all paid for by the taxpayers. It's no wonder criminals get out and turn right back around and break the law to get back in Prison. The are not prisons but Resorts......................... 

[Oh Shoot]

1 hour ago, bersaguy said:

I agre with you JAB, but until we can get a Supreme Court that will do their job it won't happen. The Supreme court was the one that ruled back in 1973 that making convicts work was against the law because there punishment was being locked up and to make them work while locked up was against the law ...

??? Couldn't find to what you are referring? Maybe something specific to "chain gangs" only or something?

There are quite a few prison labor farms around the country. Lots of in-prison work industries too. Even low level convictions, like DUI and whatnot,  have folks picking up trash on the road. Military still has sentences with "hard labor". Etc.

In fact, 13th Amendment specifically allows it.

- OS

Edited December 5, 2017 by Oh Shoot

[E4 No More]

On 12/3/2017 at 8:05 PM, nightrunner said:

We have a legal system and this is how it works.

We haven’t had a justice system for a very long time.

Oh so true!

[JAB]

21 hours ago, bersaguy said:

I agre with you JAB, but until we can get a Supreme Court that will do their job it won't happen. The Supreme court was the one that ruled back in 1973 that making convicts work was against the law because there punishment was being locked up and to make them work while locked up was against the law and soon there was no more stripes and the got Cable TV, A/C in their cells and top of the line medical attention all paid for by the taxpayers. It's no wonder criminals get out and turn right back around and break the law to get back in Prison. The are not prisons but Resorts......................... 

Well, here is where I say something to which some - maybe even a lot - may object.  I believe that Constitutional protections should apply only to those who are legally in the country.  Illegal invaders should have no, such protections or rights.  Basic, human rights - sure but not the same rights under the Constitution as citizens or legal immigrants.  Illegal aliens should be considered to be outside the standard justice system which should be reserved for people who are here legally.  They should be considered to be exactly what they are - foreign invaders who have illegally breached our borders.  As such, they should have no standing for them or their representatives, supporters, etc. to even attempt to bring a case to the courts, period, let alone the Supreme Court.

Edited December 5, 2017 by JAB

[bersaguy]

11 minutes ago, JAB said:

Well, here is where I say something to which some - maybe even a lot - may object.  I believe that Constitutional protections should apply only to those who are legally in the country.  Illegal invaders should have no, such protections or rights.  Basic, human rights - sure but not the same rights under the Constitution as citizens or legal immigrants.  Illegal aliens should be considered to be outside the standard justice system which should be reserved for people who are here legally.  They should be considered to be exactly what they are - foreign invaders who have illegally breached our borders.  As such, they should have no standing for them or their representatives, supporters, etc. to even attempt to bring a case to the courts, period, let alone the Supreme Court.

Your not going to get an argument out of me on this at all. As soon as they come across the border without a Green card or work Visa they are automatically a criminal that has broken a law in this country and should have no Constitional protection what so ever. That is exactly why the first thing they do is run yowards any sanctuary city or state they can get to because they know they will be protected. I really wish that all of the illegal Imigrants in this country would flow like an Exodus of Biblical Proportion to California including all of the gang members of MS13 and then the Federal Government needs to cut all Federal Funding to California. Put every extra federal agent they have on the state line between California and any state that borders California and arrest every illegal Imigrant that tries to leave when the food runs out. Lets see how bad California really wants to be a Sanctuary State? It will also set an example to any of these other so called Sanctuary Wannabe's both cities and states. If all the states would cut all Freebees to them and stop feeding them and stop all the healthcare they might get an incentive to go back home. Maybe if they don't object to your post they probably will mine JAB. I don't believe in any type of program that gives them an incentive to remain here and that includes DACA!! My Children and my Grandchildren come first!!!!!

[JAB]

On 12/5/2017 at 6:21 PM, bersaguy said:

Your not going to get an argument out of me on this at all. As soon as they come across the border without a Green card or work Visa they are automatically a criminal that has broken a law in this country and should have no Constitional protection what so ever. That is exactly why the first thing they do is run yowards any sanctuary city or state they can get to because they know they will be protected. I really wish that all of the illegal Imigrants in this country would flow like an Exodus of Biblical Proportion to California including all of the gang members of MS13 and then the Federal Government needs to cut all Federal Funding to California. Put every extra federal agent they have on the state line between California and any state that borders California and arrest every illegal Imigrant that tries to leave when the food runs out. Lets see how bad California really wants to be a Sanctuary State? It will also set an example to any of these other so called Sanctuary Wannabe's both cities and states. If all the states would cut all Freebees to them and stop feeding them and stop all the healthcare they might get an incentive to go back home. Maybe if they don't object to your post they probably will mine JAB. I don't believe in any type of program that gives them an incentive to remain here and that includes DACA!! My Children and my Grandchildren come first!!!!!

Yeah, DACA is a bunch of horse malarky.  I understand that those folks didn't come here illegally on their own but so what?  As young adults they have stayed here illegally.  If a kid's parents rob a bank, use part of the money to buy their kid a car and then get caught does the kid get to keep the car and benefit from the parents' crime just because he or she wasn't actually involved in the robbery? 

Further, when people bemoan that several hundred thousand DACA members - many of whom have received an education here - could be deported rather than being allowed to stay and get jobs I say, "Good.  That is several hundred thousand jobs for the people who are here legally."  These aren't the (mostly fictional, I believe) illegals who are going to be doing jobs that legal citizens supposedly won't do.  By the way the media (which is very sympathetic to their cause, in general) describes them, these are people competing with legal residents and citizens for good jobs, many that require college degrees.  So removing them as competition for American jobs is a good thing.  Further, maybe having a large influx of American educated, motivated young people coming into their countries of origin (and, let's face it - most of them are probably from Mexico or Central America) can help those countries fix their own problems so people don't need to illegally invade our country.

As far as the freebies, etc. I saw something recently that said 80% of immigrant-led households receive some type of government assistance.  I don't remember the source that was reporting the number but I do remember being amazed because it was a source that was supportive of illegals staying, etc.  I figure we have enough poor people in this country - many who are 'working poor' - who need help.  We don't need to import them and we certainly shouldn't be rewarding people for coming and/or staying illegally..

Edited December 8, 2017 by JAB