So We Sit and Wait.....

[peejman]

25 minutes ago, JayC said:

That just isn't accurate, based on publicly known information on their weapons program.  Here are some highlights:

1. They have put 2 satellites into stable polar orbits.  They are higher than the space station. This is no small feet and only a handful of countries have the ability to do this.

2. While the distance laterally on their missiles isn't very far, it's the distance in height that is telling.  If you throw a baseball straight up in the air and it reaches a height of 100 feet and lands 15 feet from you...  Do you think you can throw the same baseball more than 15 feet at a 45 degree angle?  100 feet at the same 45 degree angle?  Or much farther?

1&2 show the ability to lift a payload into orbit, and on a ballistic course that could easily impact CONUS.

They're missing 2 more items needed to target us directly, 1. they need a reentry vehicle that can protect the payload, they haven't shown the ability to do this. 2. They need the ability to make mid course and reentry course corrections, to properly target city sized targets.

BUT, the real threat is from a simple High Altitude Electromagnetic Pulse, they have demonstrated all the need technology to pull off this type of attack, there is little that we could do to stop the attack, accurate targeting isn't needed, and the results would be devastating to the American people.  One device detonated over Lincoln, Neb could disable all 3 power grids within the United States, for days, and would leave a large area of the country without power for months.  It would kill far more people than a single missile hitting a major US city, which is pretty hard to do accurately.

I wasn't aware they'd orbited satellites, that's interesting.  But I'd also argue that's not that great an achievement. While only a few countries actually do it, there are dozens that are capable. PRK has to DIY because no one else will let them use their stuff.  

I'd be very curious to see the report from the sub that went to find their rocket in the Sea of Japan and find out what the payload was, if any. 

[bersaguy]

46 minutes ago, n0rlf said:

Well given the quality of people in the service from the Obama years I am afraid that is too little to late. I hope they get the good vets but think about it...Any vet with a decent resume can get a good job these days. The ones looking at Wal-Mart are probably not the cream of the crop.

Sad and does not dishonor the vet by any means just happens to be the truth. Just the fact that a returning vet has to even consider working at a Wal-Mart says a lot in and of itself.

Time the country starting treating the veterans the right way. They have not done so for decades. Too many people involved that have never served making decisions about those that have. 

Well you and I differ in our definition reagrding our Veterans. If a man or woman served in our military and saw front line action or didn't action if they received an Honorable discharge they are all honorable and equal in the fact that each one of them deserves an opportunity for employment and if they choose Walmart that is their decision. Walmart is just like any other big corporation. They do offer advancements if one is deserved and each Vet working for them has that opportunity. If a Vet makes application at Walmart I commend them because they are not sitting at home but wanting to show people they can be an asset to society............JMHO 

[JayC]

1 hour ago, peejman said:

I wasn't aware they'd orbited satellites, that's interesting.  But I'd also argue that's not that great an achievement. While only a few countries actually do it, there are dozens that are capable. PRK has to DIY because no one else will let them use their stuff.  

I'd be very curious to see the report from the sub that went to find their rocket in the Sea of Japan and find out what the payload was, if any. 

I'd didn't say it was a 'great achievement', only that they demonstrated the ability to place 2 satellites into polar orbits, which is harder technically than placing satellites in a more traditional geocentric orbit (requiring more delta-v).  It also hints at their goals, a sun-synchronous orbit while good for spy satellites, is also good way to place a 'device' over the Central US in such a way as to render us defenseless to such an attack with our currently deployed anti-missile technology.

Also remember this latest launch which could have easily placed a satellite into orbit, was launched from a mobile launcher which would make hunting them down much much harder.

Norks are a major problem, and we should be cautious about taking military action that might result in 10,000's of deaths in SK, and could result in an EMP attack against the home land.

[peejman]

18 minutes ago, JayC said:

It also hints at their goals, a sun-synchronous orbit while good for spy satellites, is also good way to place a 'device' over the Central US in such a way as to render us defenseless to such an attack with our currently deployed anti-missile technology.

How so?

 

And I agree, we should be cautious. KJU is a raving looney. I have no doubt he'd nuke anyone and everyone if he thought he was cornered. 

Edited December 1, 2017 by peejman

[Fourtyfive]

Let’s leave Wolly World out of this and try to understand what may happen. It will happen, it’s just a matter of who starts it. For those of you that have family in the military I understand, I also applaud you. The real question is why are we waiting on an idiot to do something first? His intentions are obvious, his country is starving and even his military has worms. Get real and deal with it. Avoiding the subject is erroneous.

[JayC]

1 hour ago, peejman said:

How so?

And I agree, we should be cautious. KJU is a raving looney. I have no doubt he'd nuke anyone and everyone if he thought he was cornered. 

How so to which part?  The real threat is from HA-EMP devices placed into orbit, or that those devices are at an altitude that would make shooting them down much much harder, or that we should be cautious about starting a shooting war where 22-24 million people live within range of Norks massive artillery and mobile SCUD launchers?

[peejman]

45 minutes ago, JayC said:

How so to which part?  The real threat is from HA-EMP devices placed into orbit, or that those devices are at an altitude that would make shooting them down much much harder, or that we should be cautious about starting a shooting war where 22-24 million people live within range of Norks massive artillery and mobile SCUD launchers?

The defenseless part. 

[MacGyver]

Haven’t we mostly disproved the EMP threat from an atmospheric blast caused by a nuke this size?

[shotgunshooter]

This is what set me off ...anything to get close to Oak Ridge......

Probably why they fired John Currie.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[n0rlf]

4 hours ago, bersaguy said:

Well you and I differ in our definition reagrding our Veterans. If a man or woman served in our military and saw front line action or didn't action if they received an Honorable discharge they are all honorable and equal in the fact that each one of them deserves an opportunity for employment and if they choose Walmart that is their decision. Walmart is just like any other big corporation. They do offer advancements if one is deserved and each Vet working for them has that opportunity. If a Vet makes application at Walmart I commend them because they are not sitting at home but wanting to show people they can be an asset to society............JMHO 

And any decent very can get a job elsewhere that both pays better and provides a better future opportunity. I agree all veterans that have a honorable discharge are worthy of great respect. Problem is that there are a lot of people that got the old jail or military option and are not the best. Now most of us that have served know them easily enough. Sad but very true. 

I mean no disrespect to veterans as I have fought hard for our benefits for a long long time. As for Walmart hiring them I still believe they can do better. In fact I know they can. I am more than willing to work with a veteran that needs assistance if I can. I have assisted where and when I can be that driving them to appointments or country offices to assisting then in getting online. 

Now if a veteran wants to work wherever that is up to them off course. They should not however for a minute think they have to or should settle for Walmart. 

[DaveTN]

We aren’t worried about his missiles getting here; we are worried about his artillery.

He isn’t launching armed ballistic missiles. He’s thumbing his nose at us telling him he can’t have nukes. That doesn’t justify starting a war that will surely kill thousands of American Troops and possibly millions of South Koreans.

If they figure out a way to take out his artillery without him being able to use it; our government would probably do it. But that probably won’t happen.

We can’t, and won’t nuke them; even if they launched a nuke. We don’t need to. It’s 500 miles from Beijing to Pyongyang; nukes are out of the question.

I still hold out hope the North Korean people will kill him and his top guys.

We are being challenged all over the globe. We can’t start wars because countries disrespect us.

[bersaguy]

31 minutes ago, n0rlf said:

And any decent very can get a job elsewhere that both pays better and provides a better future opportunity. I agree all veterans that have a honorable discharge are worthy of great respect. Problem is that there are a lot of people that got the old jail or military option and are not the best. Now most of us that have served know them easily enough. Sad but very true. 

I mean no disrespect to veterans as I have fought hard for our benefits for a long long time. As for Walmart hiring them I still believe they can do better. In fact I know they can. I am more than willing to work with a veteran that needs assistance if I can. I have assisted where and when I can be that driving them to appointments or country offices to assisting then in getting online. 

Now if a veteran wants to work wherever that is up to them off course. They should not however for a minute think they have to or should settle for Walmart. 

No Offense and I hope none is taken but I almost think it is not the veterans your out to get as bad as you are Walmart. I would bet you feel the same way about Mc Donalds and Vets going to work for them. Just from a few Vets I have known and spoke with that work at both companies within a year they have been placed in management positions with nice salary increases. I also know a couple that did the same thing at Lowes and Home Depot. I have never known anyone that started on the top floor of any company and worked their way down...............JMHO

[Fourtyfive]

1 hour ago, shotgunshooter said:

Probably why they fired John Currie.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 

Phat Phil is in !

[Fourtyfive]

This thread is not about our Veterans, not about Wally World. God bless our Veterans, they are right here adding to this thread. This thread is about KJ and what he does and will do. That is IT. If you have nothing to contribute but negativity towards the military then let it go. It’s redicuolus to think that you would not stand in front of a gun pointed at any Verteran  that has served your Country and not even blink or bat an eye. They have already done it for you.

Edited December 2, 2017 by Fourtyfive

[Oh Shoot]

33 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

....

If they figure out a way to take out his artillery without him being able to use it; our government would probably do it. But that probably won’t happen.

We can’t, and won’t nuke them; even if they launched a nuke. We don’t need to. It’s 500 miles from Beijing to Pyongyang; nukes are out of the question.

Hell, it's only 35 miles from North Korea's heaviest artillery concentration to Seoul! We'd have to be very careful indeed with even conventional weapons targeting.

- OS

[Fourtyfive]

Conventional military rockets and small arms are not the problem or thought here. It’s what happens when the trigger is pulled. How did that work out for the last DMZ crossing? The idiot that realized he was over the line and ran back is more than likely dead now as well as his family. I guess they are pulling the fresh corn that each military member gets 20 kernels of each day. It’s a pathetic government and country. I’m ready to either put them out of their misery or cut the head of the snake.

Edited December 2, 2017 by Fourtyfive

[Fourtyfive]

That’s the Catch 22, if the fuse is lit. It’s ON.

[Fourtyfive]

Why did the South Korean’s have to wait until dark to retrieve the defector in the dark if he was laying on South Korean soil?

Was he not already across the DMZ?

[Fourtyfive]

1 hour ago, DaveTN said:

We aren’t worried about his missiles getting here; we are worried about his artillery.

He isn’t launching armed ballistic missiles. He’s thumbing his nose at us telling him he can’t have nukes. That doesn’t justify starting a war that will surely kill thousands of American Troops and possibly millions of South Koreans.

If they figure out a way to take out his artillery without him being able to use it; our government would probably do it. But that probably won’t happen.

We can’t, and won’t nuke them; even if they launched a nuke. We don’t need to. It’s 500 miles from Beijing to Pyongyang; nukes are out of the question.

I still hold out hope the North Korean people will kill him and his top guys.

We are being challenged all over the globe. We can’t start wars because countries disrespect us.

Unfortunately those people have already been killed as they say by anti-aircraft guns at point blank range.

[Fourtyfive]

S

[n0rlf]

1 hour ago, bersaguy said:

No Offense and I hope none is taken but I almost think it is not the veterans your out to get as bad as you are Walmart. I would bet you feel the same way about Mc Donalds and Vets going to work for them. Just from a few Vets I have known and spoke with that work at both companies within a year they have been placed in management positions with nice salary increases. I also know a couple that did the same thing at Lowes and Home Depot. I have never known anyone that started on the top floor of any company and worked their way down...............JMHO

I am good with anyone that is happy. As long as the business is not taking advantage of them and the very is doing well. Unfortunately I am jaded and cynical these days. I think perhaps I am just not starting my mind clearly tonight. Too many meds over the last couple days. Yet another reason I want to see veterans taken care of. Let me restate my feelings when I am feeling better so I don't confuse anyone out worse come of even more old crochety bastard than I really am. 

[Fourtyfive]

I’m on a few decongestants too but I stand firm in my beliefs, KJ can rot under a new Hwasong15 strapped to the fire frame.

And that’s all I’ve got to say about it. ☠️

Edited December 2, 2017 by Fourtyfive

[btq96r]

I have a hard time thinking North Korea is refining a military nuclear program just so they can launch at the US mainland someday. 

I have an easy time thinking North Korea is refining a military nuclear program so that all future dealings with them are conducted in some semi-balance of M.A.D. in mind.  The calculus of how we deal with countries changes big time when they have a credible nuclear threat.  North Korea views their nuclear program is insurance, and what we hear come out of the official state news has to be looked at as for domestic consumption before looking at it as their policy. 

If North Korea shoots first, of course we need to come down with the appropriate hammer right away.  I'm not sure if a preemptive strike, or striking once they have verified capability is the right answer.  We could truthfully live with North Korea having the technology to attack us with nukes...but whether or not we want to is a helluva question.  To date, we've not acted against any hostile country when they reached that level.  North Korea, and Iran seem to be different.  Again, still not sure for my money.  I also wonder if it's truly our prerogative to essentially condemn a staggering amount of innocent people in South Korea to death as they would be caught in any crossfire we start.

 

 

1 hour ago, DaveTN said:

We aren’t worried about his missiles getting here; we are worried about his artillery.

He isn’t launching armed ballistic missiles. He’s thumbing his nose at us telling him he can’t have nukes. That doesn’t justify starting a war that will surely kill thousands of American Troops and possibly millions of South Koreans.

If they figure out a way to take out his artillery without him being able to use it; our government would probably do it. But that probably won’t happen.

We can’t, and won’t nuke them; even if they launched a nuke. We don’t need to. It’s 500 miles from Beijing to Pyongyang; nukes are out of the question.

I still hold out hope the North Korean people will kill him and his top guys.

We are being challenged all over the globe. We can’t start wars because countries disrespect us.

You deserve more than one thumbs up for that, but alas, I can only give one.

 

[Fourtyfive]

I say why wait. They have given their direction and target. We sit and wait for what?

[Fourtyfive]

If you targeted my house and I waited to see if you could hit it, I lose.