So We Sit and Wait.....

[Fourtyfive]

North Korea has demonstrated it can build bigger rockets and mobile launchers. It wants to destroy the United States. It’s high time we take action, what are we waiting for? Why do we just watch and do nothing? I’m ready for action, not sanctions. What are your feelings?

[Oh Shoot]

Not that it hasn't already been kicked around to death, but just what do you suggest, that wouldn't also at the least kill many thousands of non North Koreans? Including the 30K or more Americans there?

- OS

[n0rlf]

The world has seen enough war. Let's not rush to kill young men that had nothing to do with this. If he launches what is deemed a possible missile we should be shooting it down. Otherwise shut down all trade in and out. That is also difficult as that punishes all his people who I am sure most world rather not be there. Touch choices. 

Edited December 1, 2017 by n0rlf
Spelling again

[Fourtyfive]

Well if they get to toss their missles here with nuclear warheads, provided they can; what’s the difference?

[Fourtyfive]

Preventative maintenance is the best medicine.

[Erik88]

33 minutes ago, Fourtyfive said:

Preventative maintenance is the best medicine.

So what does that mean? 

[Fourtyfive]

It means I’m done with KJ.

[Oh Shoot]

31 minutes ago, Fourtyfive said:

It means I’m done with KJ.

CIA would at least reimburse your plane fare if you want to slip over there and off him, ya know.

- OS

[Fourtyfive]

This is what set me off ...anything to get close to Oak Ridge......

Edited December 1, 2017 by Fourtyfive

[peejman]

I'm of the opinion that the threat to the CONUS is minimal. They can barely even get one of their missiles to Japan, much less another 5000 miles here. 

South Korea and China should be the most worried. A missile failure on the pad or right after launch would make for a bad day. 

[MacGyver]

Mark Bowden (the author of Black Hawk Down) wrote a pretty good article in the Atlantic a couple of months ago.

I'd suggest it to anyone thinking about a military intervention in North Korea:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/07/the-worst-problem-on-earth/528717/

I don't disagree that we might end up there eventually. But, from my perspective, the lack of good options makes slowing the rush to war a good thing.

[Ugly]

Perhaps it's time for another plane load of cash in the middle of the night. Seems to have worked elsewhere. 

[bersaguy]

I will never be in favor of another war but if we are attacked or an attempted attack with missile being shot down would be the only reason I would say yes to war but not a long draged out one. Hit the ememy with all  the might the United States has at it's disposal by sea and air and if need be use one on the subs to make a big crater out of NK. I know there are many civilian North Koreans that would be killed but as far as I can tell from what I have read and heard about this guy somethings can be worst then death and living under his rule sounds like one of them.........jmho

My primary concern is South Korea & Japan. Someone mentioned China if they have a malfuction and China is effected. That is on China because we have been asking for their help and they have been doing next to nothing about Rocketman. I'm waiting for him to launch one of his test toys to go array and hit land or for one of them to get shot down in mid flight. If it is shot down over International water he really can't say much but then it could be an act of war in his PEA size brain. Again.........JMHO

[gregintenn]

I think we should stop all trade with China until they deal with it.

[n0rlf]

Keep in mind what a war in that area would do. Lots of people dying for something they actually want no part in. If KJ makes a mistake or they have a malfunction well the fallout is not going to stay within the NK borders. It is going to go to Japan. And then onwards.

Not a good outcome. Best bet is a limited surgical type strike to remove the RocketMan from the face of the earth. Problem is the doors opened when that takes place. 

Killing a head of state because we disagree with he or she is a bad precedent. So how do we handle it? Personally, I would make the public statement that all BS and nonsense aside we will be shooting down any missiles that enter international airspace. We will also retaliate with great fury and vengence against any country that deploys a WMD. Not here is the line in the sand routine, but all out back to the stone age bombing. Non-Nuclear!

NK has proven over and over that diplomatic means are not going to work. They have broken all of their promises and words over decades. So much for that idea. 

[n0rlf]

1 minute ago, gregintenn said:

I think we should stop all trade with China until they deal with it.

That would have the people of the US screaming as most of what they use is from China these days. Our family makes a hard point of not buying from China unless we have no other choice. Sometimes the made in China stuff is all you can find. That is the bigger discussion point.

I would say very harsh tarrifs to anything coming into the US. match other countries imports to the letter. If you export a billion worth to me you better be taking a billion in import from me. Over simplified of course for a point making exercise.

 

 

[bersaguy]

8 minutes ago, n0rlf said:

That would have the people of the US screaming as most of what they use is from China these days. Our family makes a hard point of not buying from China unless we have no other choice. Sometimes the made in China stuff is all you can find. That is the bigger discussion point.

I would say very harsh tarrifs to anything coming into the US. match other countries imports to the letter. If you export a billion worth to me you better be taking a billion in import from me. Over simplified of course for a point making exercise.

 

 

You can blame the previous 3 administrations for the China Syndrome. Clinton, Bush and Obama all gave China a green light to flood our markets with their products, many of them junk and now we have a President that is trying very hard to turn all that around and he has my full support in doing it. I was much happier when I was buying products that wore a lable that said Made In the USA and I am ready to go back to those days. We are China's biggest customer so lets put a large dent in their Pocket Books. Tell Walmart, Amazon, Jet, EBAY and all of the big warehouse stores and Brick and Motar stores to buy American.....................JMHO

[gregintenn]

18 minutes ago, n0rlf said:

That would have the people of the US screaming as most of what they use is from China these days. Our family makes a hard point of not buying from China unless we have no other choice. Sometimes the made in China stuff is all you can find. That is the bigger discussion point.

I would say very harsh tarrifs to anything coming into the US. match other countries imports to the letter. If you export a billion worth to me you better be taking a billion in import from me. Over simplified of course for a point making exercise.

 

 

I'd prefer to make do without Chinese WalMart crap for a bit rather than sending my sons to die in Asia. Your mileage may vary.

[n0rlf]

I do not disagree with either of you Bersa or Greg. I would add that the same ones listed by Bersa are responsible for NK as well. They kept making deals that got the idiots where they are even after the NK side broke them. Stupid is as stupid does.

Of course that says a lot about the folks that reelected all of the dummies.

I absolutely hate WalWart and will avoid it at all costs. They are China mart these days and the folks they hire are about some of the most dumbest people in our country. Not to mention lazy as all get out.

[JayC]

3 hours ago, peejman said:

I'm of the opinion that the threat to the CONUS is minimal. They can barely even get one of their missiles to Japan, much less another 5000 miles here. 

South Korea and China should be the most worried. A missile failure on the pad or right after launch would make for a bad day. 

That just isn't accurate, based on publicly known information on their weapons program.  Here are some highlights:

1. They have put 2 satellites into stable polar orbits.  They are higher than the space station. This is no small feet and only a handful of countries have the ability to do this.

2. While the distance laterally on their missiles isn't very far, it's the distance in height that is telling.  If you throw a baseball straight up in the air and it reaches a height of 100 feet and lands 15 feet from you...  Do you think you can throw the same baseball more than 15 feet at a 45 degree angle?  100 feet at the same 45 degree angle?  Or much farther?

1&2 show the ability to lift a payload into orbit, and on a ballistic course that could easily impact CONUS.

They're missing 2 more items needed to target us directly, 1. they need a reentry vehicle that can protect the payload, they haven't shown the ability to do this. 2. They need the ability to make mid course and reentry course corrections, to properly target city sized targets.

BUT, the real threat is from a simple High Altitude Electromagnetic Pulse, they have demonstrated all the need technology to pull off this type of attack, there is little that we could do to stop the attack, accurate targeting isn't needed, and the results would be devastating to the American people.  One device detonated over Lincoln, Neb could disable all 3 power grids within the United States, for days, and would leave a large area of the country without power for months.  It would kill far more people than a single missile hitting a major US city, which is pretty hard to do accurately.

Edited December 1, 2017 by JayC

[bersaguy]

1 minute ago, n0rlf said:

I do not disagree with either of you Bersa or Greg. I would add that the same ones listed by Bersa are responsible for NK as well. They kept making deals that got the idiots where they are even after the NK side broke them. Stupid is as stupid does.

Of course that says a lot about the folks that reelected all of the dummies.

I absolutely hate WalWart and will avoid it at all costs. They are China mart these days and the folks they hire are about some of the most dumbest people in our country. Not to mention lazy as all get out.

Don't be so fast to start on the Walmart employees. Walmart has began hiring 3000 vets and have been hiring them for about a year and they said that number will grow as their business grows.

The commitment, launched last Memorial Day, guarantees a job offer to any honorably discharged veteran within his or her first 12 months off active duty. Walmart projects it will hire more than 100,000 veterans in five years.May 21, 2014

Walmart Celebrates More than 40,000 Hires in First Year of Veterans ...

corporate.walmart.com/_.../walmart-celebrates-more-than-40-000-hires-in-first-year-of-...

 

[n0rlf]

2 minutes ago, bersaguy said:

Don't be so fast to start on the Walmart employees. Walmart has began hiring 3000 vets and have been hiring them for about a year and they said that number will grow as their business grows.

The commitment, launched last Memorial Day, guarantees a job offer to any honorably discharged veteran within his or her first 12 months off active duty. Walmart projects it will hire more than 100,000 veterans in five years.May 21, 2014

 

Walmart Celebrates More than 40,000 Hires in First Year of Veterans ...

corporate.walmart.com/_.../walmart-celebrates-more-than-40-000-hires-in-first-year-of-...

 

Well given the quality of people in the service from the Obama years I am afraid that is too little to late. I hope they get the good vets but think about it...Any vet with a decent resume can get a good job these days. The ones looking at Wal-Mart are probably not the cream of the crop.

Sad and does not dishonor the vet by any means just happens to be the truth. Just the fact that a returning vet has to even consider working at a Wal-Mart says a lot in and of itself.

Time the country starting treating the veterans the right way. They have not done so for decades. Too many people involved that have never served making decisions about those that have. 

[MacGyver]

I would expect an atmospheric test at some point in the near future if things keep progressing as they are.

That will almost certainly result in a military response.

[bersaguy]

5 minutes ago, MacGyver said:

I would expect an atmospheric test at some point in the near future if things keep progressing as they are.

That will almost certainly result in a military response.

I hope not but you are probably correct!!!

[n0rlf]

13 minutes ago, JayC said:

That just isn't accurate, based on publicly known information on their weapons program.  Here are some highlights:

1. They have put 2 satellites into stable polar orbits.  They are higher than the space station. This is no small feet and only a handful of countries have the ability to do this.

2. While the distance laterally on their missiles isn't very far, it's the distance in height that is telling.  If you throw a baseball straight up in the air and it reaches a height of 100 feet and lands 15 feet from you...  Do you think you can throw the same baseball more than 15 feet at a 45 degree angle?  100 feet at the same 45 degree angle?  Or much farther?

1&2 show the ability to lift a payload into orbit, and on a ballistic course that could easily impact CONUS.

They're missing 2 more items needed to target us directly, 1. they need a reentry vehicle that can protect the payload, they haven't shown the ability to do this. 2. They need the ability to make mid course and reentry course corrections, to properly target city sized targets.

BUT, the real threat is from a simple High Altitude Electromagnetic Pulse, they have demonstrated all the need technology to pull off this type of attack, there is little that we could do to stop the attack, accurate targeting isn't needed, and the results would be devastating to the American people.  One device detonated over Lincoln, Neb could disable all 3 power grids within the United States, for days, and would leave a large area of the country without power for months.  It would kill far more people than a single missile hitting a major US city, which is pretty hard to do accurately.

I doubt losing the grid would hinder the US response capability all that much. It would play heck with the folks that have no clue how to live without electricity. 

The carriers and subs at sea would not be any concern. We would still have the capability of turning NK into a glowing wasteland if it were not for that pesky fall out problem. People tend to forget that nuking a city has much further ramifications than just local damage. 

Conventional bombing every military sight they have would be enough. Flatten all government buildings as well. Take away their ability to wage war. That is what is needed. I think the mental aspect of war on the NK people has to be factored in as well. Most do not have the stomach for it. KJ is a lot of hot air in that regard. However he is 11 on the 1 to 10 insane list so that makes him very dangerous.

Only time will tell. And those that write the history books can expound on how everyone did the wrong things.