Common Sense Gun Laws

[espacef1fan]

Got your attention didn't I? Scary words they are to us....

I've been thinking lately and came up with something that I think is agreeable to anti-gunners and gun owners that truly want to reduce crime and not just "win" the argument.

How would you feel about three simple laws?
1) tweak the NICS checks to better track mental health/criminal activity. Perhaps make the grey area criminal acts require an interview ? language is workable obviously 

2) Make NICS free and on demand. Even better create apps/citizen portals for access at home or from phones etc?

3) make the penalty for privately selling to criminal/banned individuals eye wateringly disastrous legally. There is the motivation to use NICS. 

Nothing really changes for all of us and we give law Enforcement tools to bust criminal gun activity. It also should keep guns going to good guys

[Smith]

Are you serious? Your premise is there is a middle ground with anti-gunners and there is not, that is the ploy that suck you into their game where they set the rules and the only legitimate end result is no gun owners period. Everything else is red herrings to get you in the door. It's the old candy van trick. 

As to your list.

1. Already in place but relies on the competency of the government to watch itself, watch itself.

2. Again already done, but some states have seen fit to insert themselves into the middle man role to generate revenue for doing nothing. Again, TICS is already setup to allow direct access, but the government gets in the way .... again.

3. Already law, but the government doesn't enforce the law. However, when it does it tends to ruin good peoples lives and not the criminals.

Quote

I've been thinking lately and came up with something that I think is agreeable to anti-gunners and gun owners that truly want to reduce crime and not just "win" the argument.

So, this has already been agreed upon and still isn't adequate for the anti-gunners. Refer back to my first statement.

[n0rlf]

Make sure any results from the nics system disappear immediately. No serial numbers kept at all. You get a yes or no and a confirmation number. That's it. They do not get a serial number to keep as a backdoor registry. In fact make it part of the law that any attempt to use it for any restrictions will cause an instant repercussion by all current serving elected officials are immediately recalled. Or something like that. Lol

[DaveTN]

Where is the mental health information going to come from?

What criminal gray areas?

I don’t have a problem with back ground checks, and have zero concerns about someone coming to get my guns.  Other than people thinking it will stop a criminal that is set on killing someone from getting a gun.

Background checks would not have stopped most of these mass murders from buying a gun. Now we have a guy that shouldn’t have been able to legally buy a gun and that is the problem?

[Smith]

29 minutes ago, n0rlf said:

Make sure any results from the nics system disappear immediately. No serial numbers kept at all. You get a yes or no and a confirmation number. That's it. They do not get a serial number to keep as a backdoor registry. In fact make it part of the law that any attempt to use it for any restrictions will cause an instant repercussion by all current serving elected officials are immediately recalled. Or something like that. Lol

Supposedly already the law. However, Reno decided to keep the records anyway in violation of the law. Ashcroft had to fight congress and the DOJ to enforce the laws they refused to obey. 

[espacef1fan]

20 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

Where is the mental health information going to come from?

What criminal gray areas?

I don’t have a problem with back ground checks, and have zero concerns about someone coming to get my guns.  Other than people thinking it will stop a criminal that is set on killing someone from getting a gun.

Background checks would not have stopped most of these mass murders from buying a gun. Now we have a guy that shouldn’t have been able to legally buy a gun and that is the problem?

Gray area= I should have or the "new law" should define acts which clearly mark someone as likely to commit crime with guns in the future... poor wording at best by me..

The idea behind what I propose is it sets up a self motivated universal background check type system without a crazy burden so we throw a bone tot he anti gunners. Basically it says you cant sell guns or give them to people who shouldnt have them while providing a tool for free to assist in it.  It also establishes another tool law enforcment can use against organized crime. This further adds deterrence

 

speaking of deterrence that's the main problem. Deals get made all too often and no one is scared to do the time when it is only a couple years.

[Smith]

8 minutes ago, espacef1fan said:

Gray area= I should have or the "new law" should define acts which clearly mark someone as likely to commit crime with guns in the future... poor wording at best by me..

The idea behind what I propose is it sets up a self motivated universal background check type system without a crazy burden so we throw a bone tot he anti gunners. Basically it says you cant sell guns or give them to people who shouldnt have them while providing a tool for free to assist in it.  It also establishes another tool law enforcment can use against organized crime. This further adds deterrence

 

speaking of deterrence that's the main problem. Deals get made all too often and no one is scared to do the time when it is only a couple years.

Again, already law and in place. The only difference is in Tennessee we have to go through the state because TN took back the ability, but TICS is set up as a free access system in and of itself. I doubt TN is going to turn down revenue like this. 

Selling guns illegally is supposed to be an automatic 10 years added to any other penalties. 

[Garufa]

25 minutes ago, espacef1fan said:

Gray area= I should have or the "new law" should define acts which clearly mark someone as likely to commit crime with guns in the future... poor wording at best by me..

Your wording is even poorer here unless you really suggest government and law enforcement get into clairvoyance.

I do agree to some extent on one point you brought up.  There should be a freely accessible, “untracked” website to check serial numbers for firearms.  Not people, just the guns to see if they have been reported stolen.

Edited November 9, 2017 by Garufa
Spelling, of course

[espacef1fan]

I dont know where they mental health info would come from-slippery slope, and not just for gun stuff

 

I dont know what the exact crimes would be that would indicate future crime commision. Statistics would aid in making the law.

 

 

It would be important that a guy making a mistake in good faith isnt pulled into the black water of the whirlpool this law would be though. 

 

Hadnt thought of the stolen gun database either. Another great idea, seriously.

[GlockSpock]

Gray area= I should have or the "new law" should define acts which clearly mark someone as likely to commit crime with guns in the future... poor wording at best by me..
The idea behind what I propose is it sets up a self motivated universal background check type system without a crazy burden so we throw a bone tot he anti gunners. Basically it says you cant sell guns or give them to people who shouldnt have them while providing a tool for free to assist in it.  It also establishes another tool law enforcment can use against organized crime. This further adds deterrence
 
speaking of deterrence that's the main problem. Deals get made all too often and no one is scared to do the time when it is only a couple years.

When you throw dogs bones, know what they expect more of?


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[espacef1fan]

Well unless we repeal background checks all together we arent losing any ground. 

We would just be agreeing to a law that ideally isnt anything more than "Dont sell guns to criminals that are prohibited from owning them..and we REALLY mean it. Also here is a tool to help and protect everyone from the breaking the law"

 

It is unfortunate that we live in a time of gridlock politics that prevent progress for either party in any area. Thats how the throwing the bone situation is going to come bite us in the ass.

 

But what if they didnt bite back? Would something like this be ok with you guys? What would you change?

[GlockSpock]

Well unless we repeal background checks all together we arent losing any ground. 

We would just be agreeing to a law that ideally isnt anything more than "Dont sell guns to criminals that are prohibited from owning them..and we REALLY mean it. Also here is a tool to help and protect everyone from the breaking the law"

 

It is unfortunate that we live in a time of gridlock politics that prevent progress for either party in any area. Thats how the throwing the bone situation is going to come bite us in the ass.

 

But what if they didnt bite back? Would something like this be ok with you guys? What would you change?

 

What if someone uses a fake ID? Are we responsible for it or do we get a pass? What if we check and they “clear” today but next month they get persecuted. Do we have to prove when they bought it? Oh, you say the free online check I ran will suffice? I thought it wasn’t being kept as a record...

 

Seriously, a rather large number of the active shooters acquired their firearms through an FFL with a background check. They passed because they didn’t have a history at that point.

 

Some of the ones that did/would have failed had someone do a straw purchase for them. That’s already a serious federal crime. It didn’t stop that from happening anyways, did it?

 

And, plot spoiler, even if you managed to eliminate 100% of the sales you would hope to eliminate, then those people would turn to either making them or stealing them.

 

 

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[gregintenn]

Ummm  NO!

[DWARREN123]

I have not heard any thing common sense from a politician.

[Wheelgunner]

Background check failures, mental health problems, and drug addictions don't murder people. 

The left could add layer upon layer of "preventative measures" like extra-rigorous background checks ad nauseam - and still there would be bad guys murdering people.  Why?  Because  that approach fails to address the root of the problem: the individual bad guy, who must be 1) stopped, and 2) held accountable. 

The firearm is the only truly effective "preventative measure" because it cuts through the nonsense and addresses the problem at its fundamental source: the bad guy himself.

Edited November 9, 2017 by Wheelgunner

[Steelharp]

4 hours ago, Garufa said:

Your wording is even poorer here unless you really suggest government and law enforcement get into clairvoyance.

I do agree to some extent on one point you brought up.  There should be a freely accessible, “untracked” website to check serial numbers for firearms.  Not people, just the guns to see if they have been reported stolen.

Hotgunz.com

[Wingshooter]

I say we just bring back straight jackets and insane asylums for the crazy folks.

[espacef1fan]

3 hours ago, Wingshooter said:

I say we just bring back straight jackets and insane asylums for the crazy folks.

This actually is starting to become a discussion in the mainstream media.....

[gregintenn]

10 hours ago, Wingshooter said:

I say we just bring back straight jackets and insane asylums for the crazy folks.

...and public executions for criminals.

 

I don't know how to beat this fact into peoples' heads. The very definition of a criminal is one who commits crimes. All gun laws do is handcuff the law abiding citizen. By definition, a criminal DOES NOT give a damn about breaking a law. You do realize murder is already illegal, right?

Edited November 9, 2017 by gregintenn

[n0rlf]

2 hours ago, gregintenn said:

...and public executions for criminals.

 

I don't know how to beat this fact into peoples' heads. The very definition of a criminal is one who commits crimes. All gun laws do is handcuff the law abiding citizen. By definition, a criminal DOES NOT give a damn about breaking a law. You do realize murder is already illegal, right?

This is also try of many other things, immigration first among them. But logic is lost on most people these days, it gets lost in translation from reality TV to social media. Most of the younger people in our nation are now officially the dumbest generation ever, which is sad as to they have the tools to make them the smartest. 

Time to take hammers to phones and tablets and computers. Give them books paper and pencils. I am ashamed of what I see anymore. 4 year olds that can sure the net but cannot tire their shoes or feed themselves. They can use a tablet to watch YouTube but can't play ball. Wow!

[Ugly]

If we really wanted to do something, we would have to look at our history and when these shootings first started to happen. Then, we need to see what policies and laws as well as what organization(s) took over said departments. 

It's not difficult to see. 

Laws are fruitless to curb criminals. 

[GlockSpock]

This is also try of many other things, immigration first among them. But logic is lost on most people these days, it gets lost in translation from reality TV to social media. Most of the younger people in our nation are now officially the dumbest generation ever, which is sad as to they have the tools to make them the smartest. 
Time to take hammers to phones and tablets and computers. Give them books paper and pencils. I am ashamed of what I see anymore. 4 year olds that can sure the net but cannot tire their shoes or feed themselves. They can use a tablet to watch YouTube but can't play ball. Wow!

To be fair, I sure couldn’t and doubt that most people here could tire their shoes at age four.


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[n0rlf]

Wow. Spelling? Really. Ok I am not sure if everyone is aware on this board. You will see errors in spelling from me frequently. I am on a small screen most of the time and I have Parkinson's. Not a good mix. Lol so please forgive Mee for that.  Now. I could TIE my shoes at four years old. My grandchildren can. But I know a lot of kids that cannot walk around the block without a rest due to parents using TV and internet as bad sitters. 

[10-Ring]

I'm not willing to negotiate with liberals.

[n0rlf]

Just now, 10-Ring said:

I'm not willing to negotiate with liberals.

Then how do you expect them to negotiate with you? Seems they have the same stance. A lot of people have suffered due to being unwilling to negotiate over the decades. If neither side will negotiate then nothing will ever change. We all know that nothing ever stays the same so I would recommend a different tact.