Mass Shooting at Texas Church

[Erik88]

@Murgatroy part of me wants to be angry for the same reasons but another part of me thinks he would have just purchased a gun from a private seller.

I am really disturbed by the fact that mass shootings are becoming all too familiar. It wasn't that long ago that something like this would have stayed in the news for months. Now it will likely be ignored by the media within a few weeks(just like Vegas). It's sad that I have to discuss possible escape routes with my wife for her work. I'm not advocating any new laws be passed but it's hard to deny we have a problem. As a country we seem to have cornered the market on mass shootings. I think we're going to get to the point that any mass gathering is going to require a high level of security. The future looks bleak when I think of what's likely to come. I'm picturing a police state that is "justified" because of repeated attacks that will continue to get worse.

We're probably at the point where we need a school resource officer at every single school. My county already does that for the most part and I think it's a great idea but sad that it's necessary.

[Omega]

1 hour ago, Murgatroy said:

What bothers me through the whole thing is how existing process failed. He was guilty of a crime that he spent more than a year in prison for (a felony.) He was guilty of domestic assault. He had been involuntarily committed to a mental hospital. And subsequently escaped. He had been charged in a case of animal cruelty, later dropped as part of a plea bargain. He was denied a carry permit...

 

This is a person that never should have been able to purchase a gun for MULTIPLE reasons. Yet still be bought one. This is not a call for more laws, but a reason to re-evaluate the existing. I am not a proponent of 'let's call them all mentally ill,' because that is a very slippery slope, but this is a glaring example of someone that should have been watched, identified and prevented.

 

It baffles me, given the steps I have had to go through due to NICs and Brady delays to clear my name, with a mostly perfect record (I am not an angel,) that someone so glaringly 'off' made it through. For the record I have cleared my name and obtained a KY CCDW. However half of my last dozen purchases have come at a Brady Delay.

What Brady Delay?  I remember there being a waiting period a while back, but haven't had to wait, even for a handgun, for some time now.  

As to the reason he passed, probably simple human error.  The AF has admitted fault, and I'd put my money on failed job performance vs a procedural failure.

44 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

@Murgatroy part of me wants to be angry for the same reasons but another part of me thinks he would have just purchased a gun from a private seller.

I am really disturbed by the fact that mass shootings are becoming all too familiar. It wasn't that long ago that something like this would have stayed in the news for months. Now it will likely be ignored by the media within a few weeks(just like Vegas). It's sad that I have to discuss possible escape routes with my wife for her work. I'm not advocating any new laws be passed but it's hard to deny we have a problem. As a country we seem to have cornered the market on mass shootings. I think we're going to get to the point that any mass gathering is going to require a high level of security. The future looks bleak when I think of what's likely to come. I'm picturing a police state that is "justified" because of repeated attacks that will continue to get worse.

We're probably at the point where we need a school resource officer at every single school. My county already does that for the most part and I think it's a great idea but sad that it's necessary.

The reality is that those officers are needed due to the students, though external security has been mandated as well, the majority of their job includes a student.

[Murgatroy]

If you are delayed when you make a purchase, but not denied, here in Kentucky it is referred to as a 'Brady Delay.' If you are not outright denied, or immediately given a proceed, you are allowed to pick your firearm up in X amount of days (I have been made to wait three and five depending on the store.) The stores all refer to this as a Brady Delay, as I have not been denied, nor have I received a proceed. Buds, whom I vowed off doing business would press the matter with the NICs, something I didn't give them credit for, and would call me within an hour of leaving their store to tell me I could come back and pick it up. Living forty five minutes away, I wrote it off as a Buds issue. Last year it started happening at all stores. They would not press the issue, and I would come back in a few days and pick up my gun. 

This is what I assume in TN was a 'conditional.' I never received any hassle in TN.

This is of course, in my mind, caused by someone with my name who is much less reputable than I am. I eventually went and got my CCDW in KY (I had my HCP in TN, just never transferred it.) 

I own a 'few' firearms. It always struck me odd that I started getting hassles in the last couple of years. I knew I was good though, so I didn't let it get to me, it just took the wind out of my sales on a few impulse purchases. It started as one out of three, but when it got to three out of three, I got tired of it. The whole CCDW process was literally two weeks from class to plastic in hand.

[mikegideon]

4 minutes ago, Murgatroy said:

If you are delayed when you make a purchase, but not denied, here in Kentucky it is referred to as a 'Brady Delay.' If you are not outright denied, or immediately given a proceed, you are allowed to pick your firearm up in X amount of days (I have been made to wait three and five depending on the store.) The stores all refer to this as a Brady Delay, as I have not been denied, nor have I received a proceed. Buds, whom I vowed off doing business would press the matter with the NICs, something I didn't give them credit for, and would call me within an hour of leaving their store to tell me I could come back and pick it up. Living forty five minutes away, I wrote it off as a Buds issue. Last year it started happening at all stores. They would not press the issue, and I would come back in a few days and pick up my gun. 

This is what I assume in TN was a 'conditional.' I never received any hassle in TN.

This is of course, in my mind, caused by someone with my name who is much less reputable than I am. I eventually went and got my CCDW in KY (I had my HCP in TN, just never transferred it.) 

I own a 'few' firearms. It always struck me odd that I started getting hassles in the last couple of years. I knew I was good though, so I didn't let it get to me, it just took the wind out of my sales on a few impulse purchases. It started as one out of three, but when it got to three out of three, I got tired of it. The whole CCDW process was literally two weeks from class to plastic in hand.

My girlfriend has a KY permit. From what she told me, they may be a little easier to get than TN

[SWCUMBERLAND]

I sell guns at the Walmart I work at, here in Vegas.  (pro tem)

We are required to charge $25 for a background check They have to have a valid state issue picture ID from NV or one of our neighoring states, excepting California. (Hey, we tried.)  Still have to run them through filling out a 4473. We have to call BATFE Carson City for the background check.

IF the buyer has in hand an up to date and valid NV CCW card, no background check charged, no background check executed, as NV already did a far more extensive one giving the guy his CCW.

Here we have three different immediate outcomes:

-Proceed. Finish the sale, put the item back in its original package, tape it up, and management walks the customer out the door with it.

-Delay. Either NV of the Feds can issue a three business day delay for further investigation.

-Deny. No sale.

If he has a CCW, it's an automatic Proceed.

Where we are at, we can put a rifle or shotgun into the customer's hand, if all goes well, within 2-3 hours. Less if they have a CCW card.

To my best knowledge, WM does NOT sell pistols, except in the state of Alaska.

If the perp in this terrible thing had filed a 4473 with us, I am uncertain as to how things would have proceeded, given that the USAF apparently dropped the ball updating his data. Had he survived, a copy of a 4473 showing its having lied about felonies, dishonorable discharge, and mental institutionalizing would have been each good for up to 10 years in a Federal jail  and up to $250,000 in fine. Sort of icing on the cake.

 

We are allowed, those of us at the pointy end, to use our own judgement and deny a sale at any time, and only be accountable to our store manager for it, and that as an accountability courtesy. In eight years, I have had to do that twice, and ALWAYS got in front of the matter with Store within the half-hour. I've had to stop sales because boyfriend/girlfriend/whatever was assisting them filling the 4473 out, beyond not not knowing how to use a keyboard or translation problems, and have gotten called every several name one can think of for it. Before we were required to ask for and take picture ID before handling the weapons, I stopped would-be sales because the non-purchasing party was handling the weapons, and the purchaser wasn't.

 

I have, had, and will stand behind my conduct. Not all of us who sell firearms are complete idiots, and as stated above, I do not know all the details on this perp's transactions.

 

I will NOT be like the ijit in Massachusetts some months back that sold ammo

-without asking for ID

-to someone obviously drunk

-at 3AM...

which ammo got used in a drive-by shooting, after the drunk MINOR supposedly handed the ammo off to another party.

 

I apologize for the topic drift.

[Murgatroy]

40 minutes ago, SWCUMBERLAND said:

I sell guns at the Walmart I work at, here in Vegas.  (pro tem)

We are required to charge $25 for a background check They have to have a valid state issue picture ID from NV or one of our neighoring states, excepting California. (Hey, we tried.)  Still have to run them through filling out a 4473. We have to call BATFE Carson City for the background check.

IF the buyer has in hand an up to date and valid NV CCW card, no background check charged, no background check executed, as NV already did a far more extensive one giving the guy his CCW.

Here we have three different immediate outcomes:

-Proceed. Finish the sale, put the item back in its original package, tape it up, and management walks the customer out the door with it.

-Delay. Either NV of the Feds can issue a three business day delay for further investigation.

-Deny. No sale.

If he has a CCW, it's an automatic Proceed.

Where we are at, we can put a rifle or shotgun into the customer's hand, if all goes well, within 2-3 hours. Less if they have a CCW card.

To my best knowledge, WM does NOT sell pistols, except in the state of Alaska.

If the perp in this terrible thing had filed a 4473 with us, I am uncertain as to how things would have proceeded, given that the USAF apparently dropped the ball updating his data. Had he survived, a copy of a 4473 showing its having lied about felonies, dishonorable discharge, and mental institutionalizing would have been each good for up to 10 years in a Federal jail  and up to $250,000 in fine. Sort of icing on the cake.

 

We are allowed, those of us at the pointy end, to use our own judgement and deny a sale at any time, and only be accountable to our store manager for it, and that as an accountability courtesy. In eight years, I have had to do that twice, and ALWAYS got in front of the matter with Store within the half-hour. I've had to stop sales because boyfriend/girlfriend/whatever was assisting them filling the 4473 out, beyond not not knowing how to use a keyboard or translation problems, and have gotten called every several name one can think of for it. Before we were required to ask for and take picture ID before handling the weapons, I stopped would-be sales because the non-purchasing party was handling the weapons, and the purchaser wasn't.

 

I have, had, and will stand behind my conduct. Not all of us who sell firearms are complete idiots, and as stated above, I do not know all the details on this perp's transactions.

 

I will NOT be like the ijit in Massachusetts some months back that sold ammo

-without asking for ID

-to someone obviously drunk

-at 3AM...

which ammo got used in a drive-by shooting, after the drunk MINOR supposedly handed the ammo off to another party.

 

I apologize for the topic drift.

 I once bought a gun as a gift for my mother. She did all the handling. She did the picking. I did the paying. I asked the clerk forthright who needed to fill out the 4473. He told me that as I was the purchaser, even though it was clearly a gift, I filled out the form. I walked my mother to the range and we spent a box of rounds to familiarize her with the new gun.