Legal Defense Providers (sort of new topic).

[Guest PAULSHOOT]

There has been some discussion in the past regarding need for a "backup" membership or insurance to help with legal issue that would or might result in a self defense shooting. 

I hope I am not out of line to bring it up again. I have been thinking about it (Mainly due to inputs from USCCA thru their E Mail solicitations which I started). A nuisance at times, but do give a lot of information (education and training -- FREE EMails and links).

That said, I have done some recent research (still have not decided to go forward on joining or paying a fee). 

MY MAIN CONCERNS and Questions:

Reallize there is not a big chance ever need, but I would like to be able to afford the cost of a defense and to have someone to contact immediately after an incident if involved in one.  

Wondering if anyone has such membership or insurance and have heard of any incidences? Also, any Lawyers here that would make an educated comment? 

Share some of the information here that I recently obtained. 

 

I have been thinking about this situation for some time (mainly as a result of having contacted USCCA).

Their web site and information is. https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/

One link shows cost and sometimes offer bonus (over valued bonus).  https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/membership/?id=3steps&sid=Homepage&kmi=

You can search around and see some videos they present as situations that have happened (True or False)

 

I have seen a number of providers. So, here are some sources of info on this topic, it is a lot to filter thru.

https://www.usacarry.com/about-usa-carry.html

 

https://www.nracarryguard.com/training/rights-responsibilities/

 

https://armedcitizensnetwork.org/

 

https://d3rmvquxnxa9wt.cloudfront.net/pdf/guides/USCCA_CarryGuard_ComparisonChart.pdf

 

I presently think this might be the best of them all considering their detailed web site presentation and the yearly cost. That said, I have not a clue as to their performance in an event or if they ever have had a situation. 

 

https://ccwsafe.com/   Backed by this Insurance Company. https://www.2ainsurance.com/

 

 

 

 

[RED333]

I have asked 2 diff lawyers to be on retainer and both have told me the same thing. "Here is my card, call me if you need me", One of the lawyers asked me this. "Why do you need this unless you are looking for trouble. "

[DaveTN]

It would be interesting to hear from real life folks that have used them; not just the ones they use for commercials.

I would take an azz whipping before I would pull a gun, so it kind of hard for me to think of a scenario where I would be getting arrested. I also can’t think of a scenario where I would not be making a statement and talking to the responding Officers after I pulled a gun. But if that scenario occurred it would be a good idea to be able to contact an attorney no matter what time it was.

[walthermitty]

Two things:

1) I haven't had to use it, but I have NRA Carry Guard (currently.)  I will change to USCCA because I found out that Carry Guard only advances a small amount toward your defense.  They don't pay, if you are not acquitted, so no shot at accepting a lesser charge (see #2.)  Carry Guard, and others don't pay for non-lethal defense like pepper spray, which is a good idea to have (see #2,) or taser.  You can rely on USCCA, or Carry Guard or other insurer for a lawyer referral, but I think USCCA is better than Carry Guard in this, too.

2) I am really happy to have bought "The Law of Self Defense" 3rd Edition.  It's only $9.99 on Kindle.  I also bought the DVDs.  The author does a great job of explaining the 5 elements of a self defense case.  He also does a great job of what to say to which parties.  You would say only so much to 911, only exculpatory things on scene and almost nothing to detectives (without an attorney,) and why.  The 3rd Edition book lists case and jury instructions for each state.  And, a level 2 dvd can be purchased for each state.  Branca lists some and talks about other cases where the prosecution, judge or other was just out to get someone.  He talks about the fact that everything can go right, and you may still be convicted (it has happened.) 

I have become much more aware of the need to make sure I am prepared in every way .... from attending IDPA matches to staying up to date with legal cases thru Branca's web presence.  Do yourself a huge favor, and research "The Law of Self Defense."

 

[DaveTN]

22 minutes ago, walthermitty said:

Two things:

1) I haven't had to use it, but I have NRA Carry Guard (currently.)  I will change to USCCA because I found out that Carry Guard only advances a small amount toward your defense.  They don't pay, if you are not acquitted, so no shot at accepting a lesser charge (see #2.)  Carry Guard, and others don't pay for non-lethal defense like pepper spray, which is a good idea to have (see #2,) or taser.  You can rely on USCCA, or Carry Guard or other insurer for a lawyer referral, but I think USCCA is better than Carry Guard in this, too.

2) I am really happy to have bought "The Law of Self Defense" 3rd Edition.  It's only $9.99 on Kindle.  I also bought the DVDs.  The author does a great job of explaining the 5 elements of a self defense case.  He also does a great job of what to say to which parties.  You would say only so much to 911, only exculpatory things on scene and almost nothing to detectives (without an attorney,) and why.  The 3rd Edition book lists case and jury instructions for each state.  And, a level 2 dvd can be purchased for each state.  Branca lists some and talks about other cases where the prosecution, judge or other was just out to get someone.  He talks about the fact that everything can go right, and you may still be convicted (it has happened.) 

I have become much more aware of the need to make sure I am prepared in every way .... from attending IDPA matches to staying up to date with legal cases thru Branca's web presence.  Do yourself a huge favor, and research "The Law of Self Defense."

 

I’m curious, how much trial experience does Andrew Branca have in self-defense shooting cases?

[walthermitty]

Are you trying to say that he must have tried every one of the cases to know about the details?  That doesn't sound logical.  Research Andrew Branca.  He is a consultant attorney that has spent his professional life on this stuff.  He is referred to by USCCA, a lot of gun talk programs, etc.  He gave a live Level 1 & 2 class at the Nashville Armory, which is how I heard of him.  For pete's sake, don't just try to disparage something, without doing at least a google.

[DaveTN]

3 minutes ago, walthermitty said:

Are you trying to say that he must have tried every one of the cases to know about the details?  That doesn't sound logical.  Research Andrew Branca.  He is a consultant attorney that has spent his professional life on this stuff.  He is referred to by USCCA, a lot of gun talk programs, etc.  He gave a live Level 1 & 2 class at the Nashville Armory, which is how I heard of him.  For pete's sake, don't just try to disparage something, without doing at least a google.

I’m not asking if he has tried every case. I’m asking if he has tried one?

Yes, I’ve Googled him as I’m sure many others here have. 

[Guest PAULSHOOT]

I presently think this might be the best of them all considering their detailed web site presentation and the yearly cost. That said, I have not a clue as to their performance in an event or if they ever have had a situation. 

 

https://ccwsafe.com/   Backed by this Insurance Company. https://www.2ainsurance.com/

 

Did anyone take the time to look at this one? Takes some time in their web site (FAG seems a good place for INFO). Seems they have a very professional attitude and explain things (what they do and don't do). Cheaper than any other for the coverage as I see it.    

[walthermitty]

I don't see the answer in my searches, about his personal trial experience.  But, it doesn't matter to me whether he was "attorney of record" on any case.  Heck, I sold pharmaceuticals, and I wasn't a doctor or a chemist .... I just learned from doctors and chemists.  I sold group medical insurance, but I wasn't an underwriter.  So, I don't understand your question.  What matters is that a whole lot of attorneys of record turn to him for guidance. His overwhelming positive reviews are enough for me. For you ..... Branca says that you don't have to listen to him.  He, in fact, endorses Massad Ayoob and others.  And, he is not my only reference.  So, go out into the world, and find the answers that are right for you.  I'm only providing an opinion.

Seriously, are you just curious, or is there some other point to your question?

[walthermitty]

CCW SAFE, I just read covers the cost of civil litigation, not damages from criminal or civil trial. And, CCW Safe only pays 10% of the bond, not any collateral, if required. Haven't gotten that far with USCCA, to see if they are better. And, CCW Safe only pays 10% of the bond, not any collateral, if required.

Still CCW Safe stacks up pretty dog gone good.

[walthermitty]

Just found a comparison. There is no date on this, but some of the info about USCCA seems wrong; maybe it has evolved.  The biggest difference I see for myself is that CCW Safe seems better right after the incident.  USCCA seems to cover "accidental" discharge (at least we will not say negligent discharge until proven negligent.)  I didn't see where CCW Safe would cover that.  And, you may chose a level of civil damages insurance with USCCA.  Blast, it looks like one needs both! Or, just be vewy, vewy careful.

CCW Safe vs USCCA2 - Illinois Carry

Edited November 5, 2017 by walthermitty

[chances R]

I have attended Andrew Branca's seminar and a couple of other hour long seminars by local attorneys for firearm self-defense.  Plus just about every firearm instructional class I have attended this topic is addressed to varying degrees.  As a state instructor I try and learn as much as possible about this subject.  Branca seems to be held in high regard and is an attorney's attorney.  He does not take on private cases as a lead attorney.  He is a paid consultant.  He has worked with the Sig academy.  Spoken at NRA functions.  Helped with the founding of IDPA.  Massad wrote the introduction to his book, The Law of Self Defense.  He appears on numerous forums and shows.  That said, a recent podcast of his mentioned several of the products.  In brief, CCW Safe, Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network, and USCCA were spoken of favorably.  The NRA CarryGuard, not so much as it is a reimbursement program.  Trial lawyers require their money up front.  Without adequate up-front funding one's defense may suffer significantly.

[Guest PAULSHOOT]

On 11/4/2017 at 9:20 PM, walthermitty said:

CCW SAFE, I just read covers the cost of civil litigation, not damages from criminal or civil trial. And, CCW Safe only pays 10% of the bond, not any collateral, if required. Haven't gotten that far with USCCA, to see if they are better. And, CCW Safe only pays 10% of the bond, not any collateral, if required.

Still CCW Safe stacks up pretty dog gone good.

I thought covered costs of Criminal and civil cases (don't think any insurance would cover damages if you are convicted criminal or civildamages). Am I wrong?

10% of Bond -- I was sort of led to believe that 10% is usual fee bondsmen charge to cover a bond. Am I wrong/

[Guest PAULSHOOT]

On 11/5/2017 at 6:49 PM, chances R said:

I have attended Andrew Branca's seminar and a couple of other hour long seminars by local attorneys for firearm self-defense.  Plus just about every firearm instructional class I have attended this topic is addressed to varying degrees.  As a state instructor I try and learn as much as possible about this subject.  Branca seems to be held in high regard and is an attorney's attorney.  He does not take on private cases as a lead attorney.  He is a paid consultant.  He has worked with the Sig academy.  Spoken at NRA functions.  Helped with the founding of IDPA.  Massad wrote the introduction to his book, The Law of Self Defense.  He appears on numerous forums and shows.  That said, a recent podcast of his mentioned several of the products.  In brief, CCW Safe, Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network, and USCCA were spoken of favorably.  The NRA CarryGuard, not so much as it is a reimbursement program.  Trial lawyers require their money up front.  Without adequate up-front funding one's defense may suffer significantly.

Bold Face --- That is kind of info needed (educated opinion or real life expereince) to make decision which is best. I say best considering the fact it is very unlikely you will ever need such and the cost per year. 

I think CCW Safe overall has the winner (That said, very ahrd to evlauate all of them).

Also,  I like USCCA also (get a lot of info from their E Mails and expect would get more if member). 

 

[Sidecarist]

On 11/4/2017 at 8:28 PM, DaveTN said:

I’m curious, how much trial experience does Andrew Branca have in self-defense shooting cases?

I believe quite a bit. He's closely associated with Masad Ayoob. He's worked on many high profile cases either as defense, or consultant. I think for George Zimmerman and others that I can't recall right now.

[walthermitty]

On 11/9/2017 at 10:01 PM, PAULSHOOT said:

I thought covered costs of Criminal and civil cases (don't think any insurance would cover damages if you are convicted criminal or civildamages). Am I wrong?

10% of Bond -- I was sort of led to believe that 10% is usual fee bondsmen charge to cover a bond. Am I wrong/

I think USCCA covers civil damages up to limits of coverage.  10% is the "usual" fee; my point was that none of them cover more than that.  Information from Branca's book informs that in rare cases the bond may not be enough.  And, anything more than 10% of the bond would not be covered by any of the plans.

[pop pop]

My wife and I are member of the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network (360-978-5200), and have been for years. It is the best coverage, for the money, I can find. Call them and talk to Marty Hayes or his wife Gehila. It is 85.00 per year, for self and 155.00 for you and spouse, to maintain membership. They have a track record and will discuss it with you if legal to do so. Check them out and I think you will be surprised. Pretty straight forward and clear what the will do.

They have a long list of attorneys, a couple in our local area of mid TN, or they will allow you to use the attorney of your choice. They provide "Boots On the ground" (Come to you and help get your defense started, if forced into a self defense situation) if you request it.

IMO, they are one of the best.  

[Guest PAULSHOOT]

On 12/17/2017 at 7:52 AM, pop pop said:

My wife and I are member of the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network (360-978-5200), and have been for years. It is the best coverage, for the money, I can find. Call them and talk to Marty Hayes or his wife Gehila. It is 85.00 per year, for self and 155.00 for you and spouse, to maintain membership. They have a track record and will discuss it with you if legal to do so. Check them out and I think you will be surprised. Pretty straight forward and clear what the will do.

They have a long list of attorneys, a couple in our local area of mid TN, or they will allow you to use the attorney of your choice. They provide "Boots On the ground" (Come to you and help get your defense started, if forced into a self defense situation) if you request it.

IMO, they are one of the best.  

 

I think they are the ones that have a board that reviews the situation and makes final decision to Come to Your Defense or Not depending on how they interpret the situation (self defense or not).  https://armedcitizensnetwork.org/  Not sure I would trust that. 

[pop pop]

PA, you are correct, however to my knowledge they all have a review board in some form or another. The biggest difference is some are reimbursement companies, and the other assesses whether they are self defense or not. The NRA program comes to mind, and If memory serves me well, so is the USCCA, however they do send money up front. Someone has to make the determination, call it what you may.   

To my understanding only pre paid legal will represent you in any case. I am told it has drawbacks also.

To  my knowledge they are all written with their own regulations. It comes down to what do they cost and who do you trust?