Obama calls for new Declaration of Independence

[Guest nraforlife]

God needs to give the world an enema and stick the hose in DC

[Punisher84]

nor will it help in convincing me that this guy isn't a troll, no matter what his buddy says.

Agreed.

A big 10-4 to that!

[FUJIMO]

And to the guy who posted a couple of link to some pics. While I certainly am no fan of the annointed one, I really do not see any similarity in those pictures.

Well it's not so much one picture vs. one picture as it is a comparison for future reference. I've studied the fuhrer quite a bit, had to write an essay on him when I was in high school. althought today's school books would probably have you believe he was a great guy (since they want to dumb down our children) the books I had access to were in book form, not pdf. format.

The same manipulation hitler used to get into power looks an awful lot like big ears campaign and everything that has followed it. now this is my personal opinion, but look at the similarites and situations.

Althought the housing market has been suffering for years (I know because I was in the industry) only when it was election time did it become dire to do something about it. same goes for the car industry, corn of all things, unemployment,etc.

It's fact that hitler and his party followers allowed several things to fail and fall into ruin so that he looked like a god when he stepped in and vowed to fix it all. Even going so far as to manipulate his own followers into doing certain things (reichstag fire) and then having them prosecuted for it.

Just sounds real familiar. I'm not saying bush isn't at fault for some of this either. You know all the rights sucked away after 9/11 .

Taken from a piece written on hitler and his battle for control

"Hitler knew that during extreme national emergencies, people are most scared and thus much more willing to surrender their liberties in return for “security.†"

All I hear the media screaming nowadays is "national crisis" with jobs,economy,industry,oil,enviroment, etc. And they have you believe him and his appointed henchman will handle it all.

But they fail to mention at what cost to the working,tax paying, bible carrying, gun toting, proud american.

No, big ears isn't going to start gassing people by the train car load, but with the plans he and his cronies will try to set in place, it will be a long slow stream of government poison injected into every one os us.

(end rant)

[shirtshirt]

Quick note: USA = socialism since the new deal. True story.

[Guest Ralph G. Briscoe]

<<Cause socialism works so well right? Or maybe you were looking for a handout too? Since you just decided to lump all of us as being either brainwashed, ignorant, or racist maybe you should look in the mirror or at least stare at the computer screen before you hit the "submit reply" button. I don't hate the guy; I just do not think he was the best person for the job and like most all of the democratic candidates of the last 12 years he says whatever sounds good at the moment with no regard for keeping his promises to anyone.>>

"Socialism?"...give me a break--look it up in the dictionary sometime. Look up "plutocracy" and "fascism" while you're at it and you'll see haunting similarities to the last 8 years. No mention of the trashing of the 4th amendment and habeus corpus courtesy of Bushco? Those are things you should have been worried about...gross violations of the constitution. Where's the outrage over that? Cool that you're so prescient as to know Obama's not going to keep any of his promises. You do palm readings too?

[Guest Astra900]

God needs to give the world an enema and stick the hose in DC

Enema? It needs a full blown colonic, rinse and repeat, just like Pert Plus.

You're right though;)

[Guest Linoge]

Cool that you're so prescient as to know Obama's not going to keep any of his promises. You do palm readings too?

It is not prescience to simply repeat what President-Elect Barack Hussein Obama himself has said.

And that is all I am really going to say in response to Mr. Briscoe - despite claims to the contrary, he is obviously here to rabble-rouse and get a reaction of of the people on this board, and I simply refuse to be baited (any farther than pointing out the fallacy of his strawman argument quoted above).

[glockster157]

"Socialism?"...give me a break--look it up in the dictionary sometime. Look up "plutocracy" and "fascism" while you're at it and you'll see haunting similarities to the last 8 years. No mention of the trashing of the 4th amendment and habeus corpus courtesy of Bushco? Those are things you should have been worried about...gross violations of the constitution. Where's the outrage over that? Cool that you're so prescient as to know Obama's not going to keep any of his promises. You do palm readings too?

so⋅cial⋅ism   /ˈsoʊʃəˌlɪzəm/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [soh-shuh-liz-uhm] –noun 1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole. 2. procedure or practice in accordance with this theory. 3. (in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.

plu⋅toc⋅ra⋅cy  /pluˈtɒkrəsi/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ploo-tok-ruh-see]–noun, plural -cies. 1. the rule or power of wealth or of the wealthy. 2. a government or state in which the wealthy class rules. 3. a class or group ruling, or exercising power or influence, by virtue of its wealth.

fas⋅cism   /ˈfæʃɪzəm/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [fash-iz-uhm]–noun 1. (sometimes initial capital letter) a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism. 2. (sometimes initial capital letter) the philosophy, principles, or methods of fascism. 3. (initial capital letter) a fascist movement, esp. the one established by Mussolini in Italy 1922–43.

The way I read these definitions, it appears to me anyways, that we have a lot to worry about. Obama has even called for a National Defense Force equal to the US military which he never explained...and I heard it with my own ears, it is not out of context or a misunderstanding.

So we have a guy that speaks of the collective, the welfare of the many over the few, the need for a New America that is completely different, he is, IMO, allowing himself to be worship in a way similar to some former dictators. I agree, he is to smart to take us on head on. He will first change the process and the principles so that he will give himself not only the right, but he will make it a necessity to have complete control for the sake of the country...as you see, the messiah knows best.

[Punisher84]

It is not prescience to simply repeat what President-Elect Barack Hussein Obama himself has said.

And that is all I am really going to say in response to Mr. Briscoe - despite claims to the contrary, he is obviously here to rabble-rouse and get a reaction of of the people on this board, and I simply refuse to be baited (any farther than pointing out the fallacy of his strawman argument quoted above).

I agree as well. There is another site where he might fit in though.

[Guest Ralph G. Briscoe]

Wow! Got your attention huh? Sorry I didn't get back to all those responses to my post but as apparently the only Democrat on this forum you can surely understand the time that would require. I hope this general reply will be somewhat satisfactory. Thanks to Steelharp for confirming that I am indeed an avid, lifelong shooter (skeet, trap, .38, .357.,.45acp, .44mag, .223, .22 hornet, .257 Roberts, 30-06, .45-70 and others), hunter and collector. I value my second amendment rights as much as anyone out there....I don't believe Obama poses a threat to them--(gun legislation is a political non-starter...a battle no savvy politician like Obama would choose.) On the other hand, Bush has wantonly violated the 4th amendment, and habeus corpus, the foundation of English law, upon which our legal system is based. (If the government can lock you up without telling you why, or giving you access to an attorney all your other rights are moot) As terrified as some of you are about what Obama may do, I and many others have been terrified of what Bush has actually done. Where is the outrage on the right over these actual violations of our rights?

I'm still waiting for a coherent explanation for the Obama hatred. "He's a socialist" doesn't get it...it only confirms that the accuser doesn't know the definition of the word. Has anyone out there read either of his books?

Do that and then we'll talk. He's got an 80 percent approval rating right now, with 57 percent of REPUBLICANS believing he'll do a good job...so maybe you're wrong about him? Might just give it a year before you condemn him?

As steelharp can also attest, I've got a lot of conservative friends and enjoy spirited debate..(.there's nothing more boring than preaching to the choir.) ...I figured I'd find it here. Thanks for indulging me.

Best regards,

Ralph G.

<<Ralph,are you serious or are you baiting?

Did you listen to WHAT Obammie the Commie was saying or HOW he was saying it?

Wealth distribution is NOT what made this country great.

If you are so for it how about distibuting a few grand my way where I can recoup the money my wife and I lost after I broke my back and she got laid off and we were without ANY income for 11 months of that time?

That is my kind of wealth distibution.

We still had bills needing paid and believe you me I would be working if it was any way possible!

Which is a dern site different than the society suckers after our tax dollars year in and year out.

Forget it! I don't want your money. I'm too proud to take something I didn't EARN!

I'm not mad at you in any way. I just do not understand your political position.>>

I'm sorry about your bad fortune. It seems like the things the Democrats want to do like extending unemployment insurance, making health insurance readily available, and creating jobs would benefit you and your family. ( "Wealth distribution" has been going on at record rates during the past 8 years--from the middle class to the corporate rich...Robin Hood in reverse) I don't believe in handouts to the undeserving, but have trouble understanding why the government helping good people who have suffered bad luck would be seen as a bad thing? Regardless, I hope things turn around for you.

Best regards,

RGB

[Guest Ralph G. Briscoe]

<<The way I read these definitions, it appears to me anyways, that we have a lot to worry about. Obama has even called for a National Defense Force equal to the US military which he never explained...and I heard it with my own ears, it is not out of context or a misunderstanding.>>

Seriously...where did you get your "facts." He's calling for a domestic version of the Peace corps...NOT in any way equivalent to the US military.

<<So we have a guy that speaks of the collective, the welfare of the many over the few, the need for a New America that is completely different, he is, IMO, allowing himself to be worship in a way similar to some former dictators. I agree, he is to smart to take us on head on. He will first change the process and the principles so that he will give himself not only the right, but he will make it a necessity to have complete control for the sake of the country...as you see, the messiah knows best.>>

Sounds a little paranoid don't you think?

__________________

[Guest Ralph G. Briscoe]

<<It is not prescience to simply repeat what President-Elect Barack Hussein Obama himself has said.>>

No one knew the dimensions of the economic collapse until late September. Adjusting campaign promises to subsequent realities is at worst a minor sin...at best, honesty.

[Rightwinger]

You mean the book about his father???

The guy that left him and his mother to fend for themselves....thanks I'll pass.

My 4th amendment rights?? Who is being locked up without access to an attorney except those in Gitmo??? They are not American citizens but terrorists who have not and should not receive any favor such as the Geneva Conventions.

Obama pushed for the bad loans at Freddie and Sallie and then turns around and blames it on Bush? Come on, bad loans are on the lender and the idiots that signed the papers.

And if the only thing bringing you here is guns, then ask a question about guns. You trying to convince me and most of the others here that O is worthy of being our commander and chief is like trying to get Rosie O'Donnell in a size 8 dress. She would like to do it, others would like her to do it, but it AIN"T GONNA HAPPEN!

[glockster157]

As i have heard it said "just because your paranoid doesn't mean that someone is not out to get you". In this case his lordship, the mighty one, Obama the most merciful and magnificient, glory be his name, is the one that scares me. You drink the Kool aide, I am keeping both eyes wide open. Don't get me wrong, I am actually hoping for the best. I hope and pray that all that election rhetoric was just that and now Obama is going to run to the center and be the next Lincoln or somebody. That would be great. I am just not counting on it.

Edited January 19, 2009 by glockster157

[Guest mw.]

(gun legislation is a political non-starter...a battle no savvy politician like Obama would choose.)

So enlighten us, what has he done for gun owners rights and what is his voting record for them.

[Guest Abominable_Hillbilly]

No mention of the trashing of the 4th amendment and habeus corpus courtesy of Bushco?

The telecoms wouldn't have retroactive amnesty except for the dems. And that includes Obama's vote.

Those are things you should have been worried about...gross violations of the constitution.

I guess you view the AWB to be constitutional.

Cool that you're so prescient as to know Obama's not going to keep any of his promises. You do palm readings too?

There's nothing supernatural about understanding this sort of thing. There's also no particular prescience necessary. Obama is just more of the same' date=' and his administration picks thus far more than bear that out.

Thanks to Steelharp for confirming that I am indeed an avid, lifelong shooter (skeet, trap, .38, .357.,.45acp, .44mag, .223, .22 hornet, .257 Roberts, 30-06, .45-70 and others), hunter and collector. I value my second amendment rights as much as anyone out there

This is not a persuasive argument. Do you have black friends, too?

I don't believe Obama poses a threat to them--(gun legislation is a political non-starter...a battle no savvy politician like Obama would choose.)

That's the problem. Obama isn't savvy. You believed what the media fed you. Obama has been one hapless gaffe after another. In all fifty-seven states.

He is not prudent. He is not wise.

On the other hand, Bush has wantonly violated the 4th amendment, and habeus corpus, the foundation of English law, upon which our legal system is based. (If the government can lock you up without telling you why, or giving you access to an attorney all your other rights are moot) As terrified as some of you are about what Obama may do, I and many others have been terrified of what Bush has actually done. Where is the outrage on the right over these actual violations of our rights?

Several of us have raised hell about these issues. We even raised hell when OBAMA voted for the legislation. We, unlike you, however, are not foolish enough to believe that somehow Obama will be better than Bush. As a leftist, he'll support and even larger, more intrusive government. Just like FDR.

You want to talk about the Fourth Amendment? How about Eric Holder. He's a drug warrior from way back. No single path of law enforcement has had such a negative impact on the Fourth Amendment as our preposterous drug war. Holder LOVES it.

He also hates guns.

I'm still waiting for a coherent explanation for the Obama hatred.

I don't hate him. I'm simply sad and fearful for out country that such a man can be elected.

"He's a socialist" doesn't get it...it only confirms that the accuser doesn't know the definition of the word. Has anyone out there read either of his books?

He IS a socialist.

I don't need to read his books. His speeches are sickening enough.

Do that and then we'll talk. He's got an 80 percent approval rating right now, with 57 percent of REPUBLICANS believing he'll do a good job...so maybe you're wrong about him? Might just give it a year before you condemn him?

Was this survey done on the heels of an American Idol vote?

I'm sorry about your bad fortune. It seems like the things the Democrats want to do like extending unemployment insurance, making health insurance readily available, and creating jobs would benefit you and your family. ( "Wealth distribution" has been going on at record rates during the past 8 years--from the middle class to the corporate rich...Robin Hood in reverse) I don't believe in handouts to the undeserving, but have trouble understanding why the government helping good people who have suffered bad luck would be seen as a bad thing? Regardless, I hope things turn around for you.

You really believe, don't you?

No one knew the dimensions of the economic collapse until late September. Adjusting campaign promises to subsequent realities is at worst a minor sin...at best, honesty.

Actually, it was seen from afar long ago. By McCain, Bush, and many other republicans. Your precious democrats, however, blocked much needed legislation.

Congratulation, pal.

[ame]

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[Guest Ralph G. Briscoe]

<<You mean the book about his father???

The guy that left him and his mother to fend for themselves....thanks I'll pass.>>

Yea, you'd better pass...if you read it you'd have to give up your unsupported preconceptions. It's about a lot more than his father.

<<My 4th amendment rights?? Who is being locked up without access to an attorney except those in Gitmo??? They are not American citizens but terrorists who have not and should not receive any favor such as the Geneva Conventions.>>

One example of habeus corpus violations--Jose Padilla, American citizen arrested in the U.S., locked up for years with no access to a lawyer. 4th amendment violations--warrantless wiretaps.

<<Obama pushed for the bad loans at Freddie and Sallie and then turns around and blames it on Bush? Come on, bad loans are on the lender and the idiots that signed the papers.>>

The loan crises was made possible by deregulation which began under Reagan, accelerated under W. FNME and FMAC were latecomers to the subprime mess....not the cause. Get some facts.

<<And if the only thing bringing you here is guns, then ask a question about guns. You trying to convince me and most of the others here that O is worthy of being our commander and chief is like trying to get Rosie O'Donnell in a size 8 dress. She would like to do it, others would like her to do it, but it AIN"T GONNA HAPPEN!>>

I just asked why there's so much hatred directed toward him. Seems to be based on misinformation and irrational fear.

RGB

"It's not the things you don't know that hurt you, it's the things you know for sure that aren't true."

[Guest bkelm18]

<<You mean the book about his father???

The guy that left him and his mother to fend for themselves....thanks I'll pass.>>

Yea, you'd better pass...if you read it you'd have to give up your unsupported preconceptions. It's about a lot more than his father.

<<My 4th amendment rights?? Who is being locked up without access to an attorney except those in Gitmo??? They are not American citizens but terrorists who have not and should not receive any favor such as the Geneva Conventions.>>

One example of habeus corpus violations--Jose Padilla, American citizen arrested in the U.S., locked up for years with no access to a lawyer. 4th amendment violations--warrantless wiretaps.

<<Obama pushed for the bad loans at Freddie and Sallie and then turns around and blames it on Bush? Come on, bad loans are on the lender and the idiots that signed the papers.>>

The loan crises was made possible by deregulation which began under Reagan, accelerated under W. FNME and FMAC were latecomers to the subprime mess....not the cause. Get some facts.

<<And if the only thing bringing you here is guns, then ask a question about guns. You trying to convince me and most of the others here that O is worthy of being our commander and chief is like trying to get Rosie O'Donnell in a size 8 dress. She would like to do it, others would like her to do it, but it AIN"T GONNA HAPPEN!>>

I just asked why there's so much hatred directed toward him. Seems to be based on misinformation and irrational fear.

RGB

"It's not the things you don't know that hurt you, it's the things you know for sure that aren't true."

The please, enlighten us maroons as to why you voted for him and why he will be as glorious as everyone says he will be.

[Guest Linoge]

No one knew the dimensions of the economic collapse until late September. Adjusting campaign promises to subsequent realities is at worst a minor sin...at best, honesty.

{sneeze}bull****{/sneeze}

Thank you very kindly for making it clear that you are nothing more than a lying apologist for the Obamamessiah. You will, as such, be treated accordingly in the future (to wit: ignored).

Edited January 19, 2009 by Linoge

[Guest nraforlife]

I pray for our country and hope that our grandchildren don't damn us while they piss on our graves.

[Steelharp]

<<Obama pushed for the bad loans at Freddie and Sallie and then turns around and blames it on Bush? Come on, bad loans are on the lender and the idiots that signed the papers.>>

The loan crises was made possible by deregulation which began under Reagan, accelerated under W. FNME and FMAC were latecomers to the subprime mess....not the cause. Get some facts.

Well, you won't like these... don't forget, there was... someone, who was it now?... between Reagan and W...

---------------------------------

NY Times, September 30, 1999

Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending

By STEVEN A. HOLMES

In a move that could help increase home ownership rates among minorities and low-income consumers, the Fannie Mae Corporation is easing the credit requirements on loans that it will purchase from banks and other lenders.

The action, which will begin as a pilot program involving 24 banks in 15 markets -- including the New York metropolitan region -- will encourage those banks to extend home mortgages to individuals whose credit is generally not good enough to qualify for conventional loans. Fannie Mae officials say they hope to make it a nationwide program by next spring.

Fannie Mae, the nation's biggest underwriter of home mortgages, has been under increasing pressure from the Clinton Administration to expand mortgage loans among low and moderate income people and felt pressure from stock holders to maintain its phenomenal growth in profits.

In addition, banks, thrift institutions and mortgage companies have been pressing Fannie Mae to help them make more loans to so-called subprime borrowers. These borrowers whose incomes, credit ratings and savings are not good enough to qualify for conventional loans, can only get loans from finance companies that charge much higher interest rates -- anywhere from three to four percentage points higher than conventional loans.

''Fannie Mae has expanded home ownership for millions of families in the 1990's by reducing down payment requirements,'' said Franklin D. Raines, Fannie Mae's chairman and chief executive officer. ''Yet there remain too many borrowers whose credit is just a notch below what our underwriting has required who have been relegated to paying significantly higher mortgage rates in the so-called subprime market.''

Demographic information on these borrowers is sketchy. But at least one study indicates that 18 percent of the loans in the subprime market went to black borrowers, compared to 5 per cent of loans in the conventional loan market.

In moving, even tentatively, into this new area of lending, Fannie Mae is taking on significantly more risk, which may not pose any difficulties during flush economic times. But the government-subsidized corporation may run into trouble in an economic downturn, prompting a government rescue similar to that of the savings and loan industry in the 1980's.

''From the perspective of many people, including me, this is another thrift industry growing up around us,'' said Peter Wallison a resident fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. ''If they fail, the government will have to step up and bail them out the way it stepped up and bailed out the thrift industry.''

Under Fannie Mae's pilot program, consumers who qualify can secure a mortgage with an interest rate one percentage point above that of a conventional, 30-year fixed rate mortgage of less than $240,000 -- a rate that currently averages about 7.76 per cent. If the borrower makes his or her monthly payments on time for two years, the one percentage point premium is dropped.

Fannie Mae, the nation's biggest underwriter of home mortgages, does not lend money directly to consumers. Instead, it purchases loans that banks make on what is called the secondary market. By expanding the type of loans that it will buy, Fannie Mae is hoping to spur banks to make more loans to people with less-than-stellar credit ratings.

-----------------

Warned you you probably wouldn't like the facts.

[Guest tedbo]

I don't believe in handouts to the undeserving, but have trouble understanding why the government helping good people who have suffered bad luck would be seen as a bad thing?

It IS a bad thing because it's NOT the government's job!

What they give they can take away,period,end of sentence.

It is far better for family,friends and churches to take on that job,not the .gov.

On top of that,we have ILLEGALS getting more of a leg up than WE the PEOPLE!

I see it many days of the week.

[Guest benchpresspower]

If it had been different and a black man had to be voted for, it dang well wouldn't have been BHO, I would have voted for Alan Keyes a thousand times over b4 Obama.

[Guest dotsun]

Well, you won't like these... don't forget, there was... someone, who was it now?... between Reagan and W...

---------------------------------

NY Times, September 30, 1999

Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending

By STEVEN A. HOLMES

In a move that could help increase home ownership rates among minorities and low-income consumers, the Fannie Mae Corporation is easing the credit requirements on loans that it will purchase from banks and other lenders.

The action, which will begin as a pilot program involving 24 banks in 15 markets -- including the New York metropolitan region -- will encourage those banks to extend home mortgages to individuals whose credit is generally not good enough to qualify for conventional loans. Fannie Mae officials say they hope to make it a nationwide program by next spring.

Fannie Mae, the nation's biggest underwriter of home mortgages, has been under increasing pressure from the Clinton Administration to expand mortgage loans among low and moderate income people and felt pressure from stock holders to maintain its phenomenal growth in profits.

In addition, banks, thrift institutions and mortgage companies have been pressing Fannie Mae to help them make more loans to so-called subprime borrowers. These borrowers whose incomes, credit ratings and savings are not good enough to qualify for conventional loans, can only get loans from finance companies that charge much higher interest rates -- anywhere from three to four percentage points higher than conventional loans.

''Fannie Mae has expanded home ownership for millions of families in the 1990's by reducing down payment requirements,'' said Franklin D. Raines, Fannie Mae's chairman and chief executive officer. ''Yet there remain too many borrowers whose credit is just a notch below what our underwriting has required who have been relegated to paying significantly higher mortgage rates in the so-called subprime market.''

Demographic information on these borrowers is sketchy. But at least one study indicates that 18 percent of the loans in the subprime market went to black borrowers, compared to 5 per cent of loans in the conventional loan market.

In moving, even tentatively, into this new area of lending, Fannie Mae is taking on significantly more risk, which may not pose any difficulties during flush economic times. But the government-subsidized corporation may run into trouble in an economic downturn, prompting a government rescue similar to that of the savings and loan industry in the 1980's.

''From the perspective of many people, including me, this is another thrift industry growing up around us,'' said Peter Wallison a resident fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. ''If they fail, the government will have to step up and bail them out the way it stepped up and bailed out the thrift industry.''

Under Fannie Mae's pilot program, consumers who qualify can secure a mortgage with an interest rate one percentage point above that of a conventional, 30-year fixed rate mortgage of less than $240,000 -- a rate that currently averages about 7.76 per cent. If the borrower makes his or her monthly payments on time for two years, the one percentage point premium is dropped.

Fannie Mae, the nation's biggest underwriter of home mortgages, does not lend money directly to consumers. Instead, it purchases loans that banks make on what is called the secondary market. By expanding the type of loans that it will buy, Fannie Mae is hoping to spur banks to make more loans to people with less-than-stellar credit ratings.

-----------------

Warned you you probably wouldn't like the facts.

Oh, ouch that hurts. Your friend actually believes that Reagan caused this mess? OMG, that's too funny.

[JW3Percent]

This guy pisses me off so bad I can't even form a rational argument without the desire for violence.

When exactly is the south going to rise again? I dunno but they need to hurry up.