Guns N More Burglarized

[abusfullofnuns]

Didn't see another thread yet 

http://wkrn.com/2017/10/18/police-investigate-break-in-at-smyrna-gun-store/

Dont see much in the way of deterrents. I guess they moved because this doesn't look familiar. 

Edited October 18, 2017 by abusfullofnuns

[E4 No More]

13 minutes ago, abusfullofnuns said:

Didn't see another thread yet 

http://wkrn.com/2017/10/18/police-investigate-break-in-at-smyrna-gun-store/

Dont see much in the way of deterrents. I guess they moved because this doesn't look familiar. 

Yes, they moved over by the liquor store at the corner of Sam Ridley and Weakly Lane.

[TGO David]

This is not a jab directed specifically at Guns and More but I am seriously coming to the point where I feel that any gun shop that doesn't secure their building from simple smash and grabs with draw-down security doors and other barricades are just as negligent as anyone who leaves a gun in their vehicle for it to be stolen.

I can't believe that any insurance company will even write a policy for a gun shop that doesn't have adequate security in place to prevent quick break-ins like this.

[E4 No More]

7 minutes ago, TGO David said:

This is not a jab directed specifically at Guns and More but I am seriously coming to the point where I feel that any gun shop that doesn't secure their building from simple smash and grabs with draw-down security doors and other barricades are just as negligent as anyone who leaves a gun in their vehicle for it to be stolen.

I can't believe that any insurance company will even write a policy for a gun shop that doesn't have adequate security in place to prevent quick break-ins like this.

They may have been limited on what they could do by the building owner.  

[Garufa]

16 minutes ago, TGO David said:

This is not a jab directed specifically at Guns and More but I am seriously coming to the point where I feel that any gun shop that doesn't secure their building from simple smash and grabs with draw-down security doors and other barricades are just as negligent as anyone who leaves a gun in their vehicle for it to be stolen.

I tend to agree.  A gun store with no protection over the windows and everything on display is going to get broken into.  It's not a question of "if" but of when.

[TGO David]

17 minutes ago, SWJewellTN said:

They may have been limited on what they could do by the building owner.  

A possibility for sure which is why I am not jabbing at them, but this has happened a lot lately to several stores.  Guns and More is the latest.

If I were a building owner, I'd insist that a gun shop in my property had enough visible security in place to deter people from wrecking my building for a casual smash n' grab like this.  Of course not everyone thinks like I do and some building owners might throw a hissy fit about the necessary security facilities being put in place.

[bersaguy]

13 minutes ago, TGO David said:

A possibility for sure which is why I am not jabbing at them, but this has happened a lot lately to several stores.  Guns and More is the latest.

If I were a building owner, I'd insist that a gun shop in my property had enough visible security in place to deter people from wrecking my building for a casual smash n' grab like this.  Of course not everyone thinks like I do and some building owners might throw a hissy fit about the necessary security facilities being put in place.

If I owned a gun store and was talking with a building owner about renting their building I would make it clear up front that what security measures I plan on taking to protect my merchandise and if the building owner declined my security measures I would find someplace else to open my Gun Store. Store Security would be my primary goal before I opened my doors for business...........jmho!

[toby1304]

Sorry, to me it's just lazy. Buy a safe and lock them up at night. Too many? Buy another safe. We offer an emergency board up service through our company and we have 4 to 5 pawn shops a month that are broken into. The reason it doesn't make the news is because they lock their firearms up at night.

[Sam1]

1 hour ago, TGO David said:

This is not a jab directed specifically at Guns and More but I am seriously coming to the point where I feel that any gun shop that doesn't secure their building from simple smash and grabs with draw-down security doors and other barricades are just as negligent as anyone who leaves a gun in their vehicle for it to be stolen.

I can't believe that any insurance company will even write a policy for a gun shop that doesn't have adequate security in place to prevent quick break-ins like this.

Heard on the news the other day that there is consideration in the alphabet agency to start requiring certain security measures for gun shops.

[Sam1]

On another note, obviously there is no sure fire way to protect everything, but am thoroughly impressed with the measures that royal range has in place.  Not going to mention any specifics, but it seems like they are upgrading this or that on a regular basis that you would notice if you visit frequently.

[DaveTN]

Local gun store are already struggling to compete with the big boys online. Increasing their costs won’t help.

There are things that could be done to help catch these guys. But because several Counties are involved it will require a group effort.

Early morning hours with not much moving is risky; my guess is they are feeding a drug habit.

[TGO David]

3 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

Local gun store are already struggling to compete with the big boys online. Increasing their costs won’t help.

There are things that could be done to help catch these guys. But because several Counties are involved it will require a group effort.

Early morning hours with not much moving is risky; my guess is they are feeding a drug habit.

Here's my thoughts on this:

It costs money to be in business.  If you're going to be in certain businesses, it costs more money in certain additional areas than it does to be in other businesses.  Online retailers are going to be a competitor practically regardless of what business you are in.  That's a fact of life in the year 2017.  Anyone who tries to ignore that should look at how former retail behemoths like Sears and K-Mart fared against online businesses by ignoring their potency.

As for the subject of gun shops... ANY gun shops... being broken into and firearms being stolen from them:  Any time it happens, more guns go into criminal hands and that plays into the narratives of bureaucrats everywhere.  The same goes for folks who leave guns in their cars and don't take additional precautions to secure them in some way.  If you're going to leave a gun in your car, there are ways to secure it against quick smash n' grab robberies.  The same goes for firearms in stores or firearms left in your house when you aren't home.

Again, I am not throwing rocks at Guns n' More.  I have this gut feeling someone's going to accuse me of that sooner or later.  Their misfortune is simply the impetus to talk about this.

 

[E4 No More]

1 hour ago, TGO David said:

A possibility for sure which is why I am not jabbing at them, but this has happened a lot lately to several stores.  Guns and More is the latest.

If I were a building owner, I'd insist that a gun shop in my property had enough visible security in place to deter people from wrecking my building for a casual smash n' grab like this.  Of course not everyone thinks like I do and some building owners might throw a hissy fit about the necessary security facilities being put in place.

I get it. Having dealt with retail property owners, I can give a W.A.G. that they look at it as a window is a lot cheaper to replace than to modify the property and then return it back to normal condition if the tenant does not renew their lease or defaults on it. They couldn't care less about the losses of the tenant. 

[E4 No More]

2 hours ago, bersaguy said:

If I owned a gun store and was talking with a building owner about renting their building I would make it clear up front that what security measures I plan on taking to protect my merchandise and if the building owner declined my security measures I would find someplace else to open my Gun Store. Store Security would be my primary goal before I opened my doors for business...........jmho!

It's not always that simple. In retail there's the old saying, "Location, location, location!" Retail space in choice areas have many considerations to take into account making your choices quite limited many times.

Edited October 18, 2017 by SWJewellTN
Typo

[monkeylizard]

I don't imagine it would have taken a whole lot to replace those glass windows with Lexan (or whatever today's equivalent is). It won't stop a determined thief, but would stop a smash n grab. Add in some steel or concrete bollards out front to prevent driving a stolen truck into the front door and you have some fairly low cost changes that contribute a LOT to security.

[E4 No More]

Consider this: Guns & More was started by a couple who took on an immense challenge to compete with big box stores and online retailers. They started in a modest location with one of them working a regular job to pay the bills. Like any businessperson, you have to deal with the cards that are drawn, and put money back where you can. No one on this forum knows whether they were cheap, unthinking, limited by narrow profit margins, or even had a contractor scheduled to arrive tomorrow to secure the site. Starting a business and growing it - particularly a brick & mortar gun shop - is not at all easy, and the way some sound it should only be attempted by the rich.

Edited October 18, 2017 by SWJewellTN
Typo

[monkeylizard]

Lexan windows and some steel bollards would be about $1000-$2000 installed. That's hardly the sole purview of the rich and famous.

[gregintenn]

Swift and public executions of those guilty of firearm related crimes would negate this type of thing better than bars and alarms.

[bersaguy]

30 minutes ago, SWJewellTN said:

It's not always that simple. In retail there's the old say, "Location, location, location!" Retail space in choice areas have many considerations to take into account making your choices quite limited many times.

I have heard that saying many times that location is # 1. I have also heard the expression which has been proven to work well also and that is "Build a better mouse trap and people will beat a path to your door! ...............JMHO

[bersaguy]

5 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

Swift and public executions of those guilty of firearm related crimes would negate this type of thing better than bars and alarms.

I believe that with all my heart but so far I have not heard of one person  that has done a break in and stole Guns has be caught so it's hard to hold public executions until they catch someone first!!!............JMHO 

[Sam1]

30 minutes ago, monkeylizard said:

Lexan windows and some steel bollards would be about $1000-$2000 installed. That's hardly the sole purview of the rich and famous.

Even if it was three or four times that amount, there must be consideration for the product being protected.  I mean, haven't we seen 3 of these smash and grabs from small stores here locally where they just had to bust out a window and run off with some guns?  

[Sam1]

heck, they don't even need to go lexan, security film has been around for years and years and is a fraction of the cost.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96x2tO9Xuxw

[TGO David]

56 minutes ago, SWJewellTN said:

Consider this: Guns & More was started by a couple who took on an immense challenge to compete with big box stores and online retailers. They started in a modest location with one of them working a regular job to pay the bills. Like any businessperson, you have to deal with the cards that are drawn, and put money back where you can. No one on this forum knows whether they were cheap, unthinking, limited by narrow profit margins, or even had a contractor scheduled to arrive tomorrow to secure the site. Starting a business and growing it - particularly a brick & mortar guns hop - is not at all easy, and the way some sound it should only be attempted by the rich.

Please don't put words in my mouth.  I said there are costs associated with being in business.  For gun shops, some of those costs are currently optional.  The more prolific these robberies become, and the trend does seem to be on the rise, I predict that those costs will be made mandatory by either the BATFE or by those underwriting insurance policies.

Like I've said repeatedly, I am not throwing rocks at Guns n' More.  This same thing has happened several times lately to other shops.  Everything Weapons had draw-across security gates on their shop and a couple of scumbags took it upon themselves to defeat that by ramming a van through the storefront.  The only way to make that more difficult is by putting stanchions in concrete across the building facade.  And even then a determined crook is going to find a way in if he really wants in.

My point is:  Make your guns more difficult to obtain than some other nearby target of opportunity.

How expensive is it to buy a length of steel cable and route it through all of your firearm trigger guards and then bolt that down to something in each display case, or anchor it to the floor or to the wall?  But, being critical of what I saw in those photos of their shop, they have rifles hanging on peghooks on walls.  I would guess they were too bulky for a quick getaway, and that's the only reason handguns were reportedly stolen, and not rifles.

If you're not going to have any more physical security than plate glass windows, you probably should figure out other ways to make your firearms less movable.

[E4 No More]

29 minutes ago, TGO David said:

Please don't put words in my mouth.  I said there are costs associated with being in business.  For gun shops, some of those costs are currently optional.  The more prolific these robberies become, and the trend does seem to be on the rise, I predict that those costs will be made mandatory by either the BATFE or by those underwriting insurance policies.

Like I've said repeatedly, I am not throwing rocks at Guns n' More.  This same thing has happened several times lately to other shops.  Everything Weapons had draw-across security gates on their shop and a couple of scumbags took it upon themselves to defeat that by ramming a van through the storefront.  The only way to make that more difficult is by putting stanchions in concrete across the building facade.  And even then a determined crook is going to find a way in if he really wants in.

My point is:  Make your guns more difficult to obtain than some other nearby target of opportunity.

How expensive is it to buy a length of steel cable and route it through all of your firearm trigger guards and then bolt that down to something in each display case, or anchor it to the floor or to the wall?  But, being critical of what I saw in those photos of their shop, they have rifles hanging on peghooks on walls.  I would guess they were too bulky for a quick getaway, and that's the only reason handguns were reportedly stolen, and not rifles.

If you're not going to have any more physical security than plate glass windows, you probably should figure out other ways to make your firearms less movable.

I wasn't referring to you.

[TGO David]

25 minutes ago, SWJewellTN said:

I wasn't referring to you.

Thanks.  That puts my mind at ease.

The Guns & More folks are good people and I really hate that this happened to them.  Unfortunately, events like these set the stage for us to to have discussions that I would *hope* lead to improvements for everyone in the future.  Obviously we have quite a few gun shop owners and personnel on TGO, even if they don't announce themselves as such.

What I hope that we don't become guilty of is simply Monday Morning Quarterbacking things or being critical for the sake of just being critical.