Las Vegas Shooting

[RED333]

The 2nd was written to protect us from a government bent on taking away freedoms that are God given. When the Brits came looking for firearms it was cannon, powder and shot(lead). The Brits even came for ships and their cannon, they (Brits) really did not care about pistols and rifles that an average person owned, for they knew with out powder and shot a rifle was just a club. The sloop was started in the 30s with FA getting taken. Been an up hill battle for us ever since. I have posted this stuff before and I will again, for this I am sure.

I want every thing I can get my hands on to fight back a .gov from taking freedoms from all of us. All the way to a nuke, if that is what it takes to put a stop to a bad .gov.

[TGO David]

Y'all just keep this in mind:   When the fools that we as a country have elected regulate bump-fire stocks, they will have absolutely been given the keys to regulating how fast we can fire a semi-automatic weapon of any sort.

Fully-automatic weapons have been regulated in this country since 1934 when the National Firearms Act was passed.  They set the definition then of what was semi-automatic (one shot fired per trigger pull) and what was fully-automatic (more than one shot fired per trigger pull).  Bump-fire stocks, while stupid and pretty much the domain of people who like shooting the dirt and throwing money out the window, are not fully-automatic weapons per the definition agreed upon in 1934.  They still fire one shot per trigger pull.

If this bull#### goes through and bump-fire stocks become regulated or outright banned, the podium will be prepped for the next round of arbitration.  And the next.  And the next.  And it will keep going until you're allowed to have a single-shot, cap and ball musket ... if you're lucky... because that's what the crown feels is a safe rate of fire for us peasants.

 

[Wingshooter]

Yep. Some feel that the bump fire stocks facilitated too many rounds shot too quickly into a crowd. Then the conversation will shift to the high capacity mags that facilitated too many rounds shot into a crowd. Then it will shift to the AR15 that allowed too many rounds shot too quickly into a crowd. Then it will be the semi-automatic rifle that....

Opening the door on bumpfire opens the door on semi-auto. Plain and simple.

[Grand Torino]

You should never  have to give up part of a Right in order to "Secure" the rest of that right. That's just frickin' ludicrous. It's either all or nothing and we've already given up waaay to much already. NO MORE!! If they ban these stupid bump stocks they will go after binary triggers next. Then what? Will they ask us to give up semi auto rifles? Then semi auto handguns? So what part of "compromise" is everyone willing to settle for? Where does it end? It's a slippery slope to an outright ban on firearms. I'm amazed anyone is willing to bargain with the left, right or willing to have the NRA do it for you.

I'm not close minded. I'm just not hearing anything new. It's the same old stale argument. Tell me something new, show me the magical combination of letters and punctuations that would have stopped this shooting. Not one bit of legislation currently on the books anywhere in the world would have prevented this.

Many of you are old enough to remember Clinton's "Nose of the camel under the tent" reference to Brady. They are still trying to shovel the camel the rest of the way into the tent. They won't rest until that damn camel is ####ting in my lap. Enough is enough. So excuse me when someone starts talking about considering, compromise, reasonable steps and all the other crap I get a little irked. It's a song I've heard before and it's time to change the stinkin' band.

 

  

 

 

Edited October 7, 2017 by Grand Torino

[TGO David]

56 minutes ago, Wingshooter said:

Yep. Some feel that the bump fire stocks facilitated too many rounds shot too quickly into a crowd. Then the conversation will shift to the high capacity mags that facilitated too many rounds shot into a crowd. Then it will shift to the AR15 that allowed too many rounds shot too quickly into a crowd. Then it will be the semi-automatic rifle that....

Opening the door on bumpfire opens the door on semi-auto. Plain and simple.

Don't forget the fact that the photos from his room showed a rifle with a scope, and a rifle with a red-dot sight and one of them had a bipod.  All of those things obviously made his evil more potent than it would have been if he'd just chosen to rent a U-Haul and drive it through the crowd, or filled it with fertilizer and diesel fuel and detonated it on the street outside, or just bought a chainsaw at the local Home Depot and run wildly through the crowd with it mowing down anyone who got within his reach.

[MacGyver]

Turns out the note on the table in the pictures was a dope card:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/07/us/las-vegas-shooting-investigation/index.html

[TGO David]

2 minutes ago, MacGyver said:

Turns out the note on the table in the pictures was a dope card:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/07/us/las-vegas-shooting-investigation/index.html

Was just coming here to post the same.

For a someone who supposedly wasn't a "gun guy" he sure was well armed and knew what he was doing.  The more details that come out, the more rotten this smells.  I've been telling folks since Monday that it's not simple spray-n-pray shooting when you're doing it from an elevated position, 300-400 yards away, with crosswinds.  There's more to this guy than they know or are saying, even if it's just that he was really, really well prepared and understood basic tactics.

 

[Omega]

Hmm, had heard it had immigration info.  A dope card would be next to useless with rapid fire, it's only good when snipping and adjusting your scope after either each shot or string. 

[Oh Shoot]

55 minutes ago, TGO David said:

...

For a someone who supposedly wasn't a "gun guy" ..

Well, I think that's mostly drawn from what his loopy sounding bother said -- he also said he might have "one long rifle". Right. He had been buying various firearms for 30 years, though seems most ARs were in the last year or so.

One thing we haven't heard about are any shooting ranges he might have frequented? Course, out there, I guess you can freely shoot all over the place on public lands.

- OS

[mikegideon]

I read somewhere that he had some training. 400 yards is some pretty easy shooting with a rest. Elevation data would be useful, but wouldn't have to be done on site. A computer program will get you on steel easily if the gun is zeroed..

[Garufa]

1 hour ago, MacGyver said:

Turns out the note on the table in the pictures was a dope card:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/07/us/las-vegas-shooting-investigation/index.html

Might be just a bit premature to call it a dope card based on that article. He was a professional gambler after all, and apparently a good one.  Those numbers could be anything.

[Omega]

It's not that hard, specially if you have a large area to fire at.  Once you get close you just walk them in, just be glad he didn't master burst mode.  It doesn't take much training, and crosswinds aren't much of a hinderence unless you are working on MOA.

[gregintenn]

Don't forget that was CNN reporting. It could be a grocery list of phone numbers for hookers.

[Wingshooter]

I doubt he was really aiming to hit anyone in particular, but rather just the crowd. Once they started scattering, I'd say he just fired in the direction of the largest group. With a bump fire what use would he have for a dope card? Then again, maybe it was a "dope" card... as in a list of drugs he was on.

[hipower]

According to varied FB posts and articles(yep...a sure fire bastion of truth) ISIS has claimed 3 times now that he was a newly radicalized convert. Even my family, who think I'm a conspiracy theorist and an alarmist are beginning to question this.

[Omega]

14 minutes ago, hipower said:

According to varied FB posts and articles(yep...a sure fire bastion of truth) ISIS has claimed 3 times now that he was a newly radicalized convert. Even my family, who think I'm a conspiracy theorist and an alarmist are beginning to question this.

The way I see it is If it was ISIS related, there would be something left behind to confirm it.  Terrorism only works when people are terrified,  having people questioning their involvement lessened that from the beginning.  

[Dolomite_supafly]

With all of our precious republicans crying in Washington and pulling everything gun related off the table I am beginning to think Trump is the only sane one in Washington right now.

I will say this, if our Republican controlled government does ANYTHING to harm my gun rights I will NEVER vote Republican again, ever. At least I will be able to recognize my enemy instead of having a "Wait and see" attitude to what kind of republican I helped vote into office. I hope all those who helped fill our government with "conservatives" do the same when they realize Washington doesn't have any conservatives. What we have now are 80's democrats, not conservative republicans.

Seriously, we have control of EVERYTHING in our government yet we cannot get ANYTHING done, Washington is broke.

 

Edited October 8, 2017 by Dolomite_supafly

[DaveTN]

The card may well have been a ballistics chart. But that doesn’t mean anything. He didn’t need it and it would have meant little using a bump fire stock, or spray and pray. 400 yards might be tough if you are trying to shoot a bullseye at the range, but it is nothing when your target is a massive crowd of people. He didn’t even really need sights or optics; point and shoot (which is what I think he was doing) would do fine.

I don’t understand why anyone thinks this clown had to have training. I also don’t understand why anyone thinks he had to have help.

The thing that bothers me the most about this (besides the obvious senseless loss of life) is the reporters focusing on “why did he have so many guns and rounds of ammunition?” Many people have more than he had. I am lucky enough to have a lot. I don’t have a lot of the same gun, but my collection is application driven. I try to have a gun for each application. But I don’t think there is anything wrong with those that collect one particular type of gun.

I don’t try to hide it, I don’t care if there are records of my purchases, and I register most new guns with the manufacturers for warranty purposes. I know that bothers many people; and that’s fine for them. If I thought anyone would ever been coming for my guns; I wouldn’t do that. But I don’t believe that will ever happen.

Edited October 8, 2017 by DaveTN

[n0rlf]

Folks, it will take a long time for FACTS to be had in this story. Any thing else is pure speculation and while time consuming and distracting not really beneficial. 

As I mentioned early on, stop trying to apply logic and reasoning to an event that was neither. 

Stupid is stupid and crazy is crazy. There is only one real cure for either and that power does not lie with any other human. 

It is a sad event that we will probably have to write off as a crazy act. All of these events have one thing in common, and it is not guns! 

It is someone kills a lot of people because they have either a mental issue or are acting as a terrorist. It can be argued that the latter is still a mental issue. 

So no more knee jerk reactions and blaming the tool. We have not banned rental vans, cars, knifes, bats, sticks, or any other tool so let us not jump to another worthless law that will have no effect anyway. 

Here is a thought, how about we focus on the real issues. You know, the mental aspects! Immoral, unfeeling kids that have not been taught to respect life. 

We are never going to be able to stop all folks that do something like this regardless of the tool they choose. Sad but true. So you can ban all the evil items like guns, knives, bats, pointy objects, or whatever and live in fear.  Or you can live. Stop punishing all for the actions of a few. 

I know that is logic and reasonable so it cannot actually happen as it does not meet someones narratives. 

I can still hope though. 

[Bob T]

2 hours ago, DaveTN said:

I don’t understand why anyone thinks this clown had to have training. I also don’t understand why anyone thinks he had to have help.

Exactly. A lot of money, and access to YouTube. It's not rocket science.

[mikegideon]

3 hours ago, Dolomite_supafly said:

With all of our precious republicans crying in Washington and pulling everything gun related off the table I am beginning to think Trump is the only sane one in Washington right now.

I will say this, if our Republican controlled government does ANYTHING to harm my gun rights I will NEVER vote Republican again, ever. At least I will be able to recognize my enemy instead of having a "Wait and see" attitude to what kind of republican I helped vote into office. I hope all those who helped fill our government with "conservatives" do the same when they realize Washington doesn't have any conservatives. What we have now are 80's democrats, not conservative republicans.

Seriously, we have control of EVERYTHING in our government yet we cannot get ANYTHING done, Washington is broke.

 

Saying that "Washington is broke" is going easy on the true culprits. The Republican party is broke. We have a bunch of greasy, self centered, dishonest POLITICIANS in there. Those greasy politicians are all the same, no matter what party.

Now, when it comes to party, the Democrat PARTY wants to eliminate the Second Amendment. The Republican PARTY wants to preserve the Second Amendment. We don't need to confuse that. We have the same problem in the State. 

[Hershmeister]

That brother of his gave the strangest interview with the media the other day very very odd.

PS: he looks just like Chris Elliott


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[GlockSpock]

That brother of his gave the strangest interview with the media the other day very very odd.

PS: he looks just like Chris Elliott


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Details?


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[Steelharp]

Has anyone given a list of type of casualties? How many were shots, how many trampled, etc.

[Steelharp]

5 hours ago, Hershmeister said:

That brother of his gave the strangest interview with the media the other day very very odd.

PS: he looks just like Chris Elliott


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Yes, where can this be seen?