Las Vegas Shooting

[DaveTN]

The 2nd will be fine.

If the NRA thinks giving in on bump stocks will get them National Reciprocity; let them try. 

[BrasilNuts]

9 hours ago, MacGyver said:

There’s always another slice of cake to be had...

This was my point after Sandy Hook when many members of this board were saying that we must compromise to keep from losing everything.  Nothing came of it then and now too many gun owners are singing the same song of compromise.

I've heard many of you describe the bump fire stock as useless, gimikey, only morons buy them, etc....  

There are a lot of people out there that use those same words to describe a AR-15.

I know others have said it, but why do we have to give something up every time some loon commits an atrocity?

If the video of the PODS in a pussy hat proves to be him, I say we go after pussy hats! (sarcasm to make a point for those of you incapable of reading into it)

 

[Sam1]

30 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

The 2nd will be fine.

If the NRA thinks giving in on bump stocks will get them National Reciprocity; let them try. 

Exactly, this has way more benefits... And no one can seem to get anything passed right now so if it requires slipping it in on this kind of bill to get people to sign off then I say see 'ya later bumpfires!  Make people feel the pain of a $200 tax stamp for them.

Hell, maybe putting bumpfires on as a class III will get more people upset over the ridiculous application process and fees that it will create turmoil to look at that another day.  Too early to say though.  But if I have to go through that to put a stock on a pistol that literally makes zero difference in the weapon's performance as compared to a rifle, it's hard to make an argument why a bumpfire is exempt.

[GlockSpock]

Let’s not forget the GOPA that Reagan signed. It was supposed to be “good” but think for a bit about the Hughes Amendment.

I’d hate to go into session attempting to “trade” bump fire stocks for reciprocity, and then “accidentally” lose semi-auto rifles, drum magazines, or anything else.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Dolomite_supafly]

Never give an inch. I have a bump stock and I hate it but that doesn't mean I am willing to sell out everyone who does like it. I think revolvers are useless, I say we ban them as well because they serve to legitimate purpose for ME. Matter of fact, I don't particularly care for ARs any longer so I say lets get rid of them as well because of MY views. I say ban everything except those items I have sitting in MY safe.

Sounds pretty insane but that is EXACTLY what everyone who is not against banning the bumpfire stock is doing. I have a question for those of you who are willing to let the bumpstock get banned. Are you OK with a ban on scopes, ammunition, magazines or Magpul furniture? If not then you are a hypocrite. I refuse to sell out my fellow gun owners.

If it takes banning something to get national reciprocity I don't want reciprocity. I am unwilling to negotiate with a government that refuses to abide by the terms of the deal after it has been struck.

[Wingshooter]

41 minutes ago, Dolomite_supafly said:

Never give an inch. I have a bump stock and I hate it but that doesn't mean I am willing to sell out everyone who does like it. I think revolvers are useless, I say we ban them as well because they serve to legitimate purpose for ME. Matter of fact, I don't particularly care for ARs any longer so I say lets get rid of them as well because of MY views. I say ban everything except those items I have sitting in MY safe.

Sounds pretty insane but that is EXACTLY what everyone who is not against banning the bumpfire stock is doing. I have a question for those of you who are willing to let the bumpstock get banned. Are you OK with a ban on scopes, ammunition, magazines or Magpul furniture? If not then you are a hypocrite. I refuse to sell out my fellow gun owners.

If it takes banning something to get national reciprocity I don't want reciprocity. I am unwilling to negotiate with a government that refuses to abide by the terms of the deal after it has been struck.

Agreed!!!

 

There is no reason to give anything. I don't have any use for a bump fire, but I don't see why my personal preferences in firearm configuration has anything to do with compromising our rights. Why negotiate with weasels in Washington that only have an agenda when you don't have to. There will be plenty of opportunity to lose stuff the next time libs take control, so I don't see this as being the time to do it now. Of course the ATF could make this a moot point with the stroke of a pen and a reclassification I guess

I don't recall the libs giving anything up when they shoved obamacare down our throats. Why do we feel the need to appease the left so much? No compromise. The stock didn't do it.

[Chucktshoes]

11 hours ago, MacGyver said:

There’s always another slice of cake to be had...

And for those that don't, let me refresh some memories. 

 

http://thelawdogfiles.blogspot.com/2010/09/ok-ill-play.html?m=1

[monkeylizard]

To me, support or opposition of tossing the BFS on the NFA list comes down to whether or not you accept the NFA as legitimate.

If you do and if we're honest with ourselves then the BFS deserves to be on it, and so does the Sig Brace. Everyone knows that both are ways to skirt around the NFA's regulation of FA and SBR by offering a very similar capability, but just different enough for someone to say "eh...maybe that's not exactly the same thing as in the law". We don't mind because it saves us paperwork and $200 and we know that the NFA regulation is kind of stupid given all the many ways to kill people without using an NFA item and we know that with training an SA can fire pretty close to an FA (or faster if your last name is Miculek). But in the end we all know what these devices like the BFS are for. If FA and SBRs are to be regulated by F-Troop, then the BFS and SigBrace should be included, and probably some other devices like trigger cranks as well. Maybe binary triggers too, but I personally don't know much about them. That's not throwing anyone under the bus because they like those things and I don't. It's simply that if the NFA is going to regulate FA and SBR and knowing that these devices are for all intents and purposes FA and SBR devices when used they way pretty much anyone who has one uses them, then they should be included in the NFA.

On the flip side, if you think the NFA is an unjust law which infringes on the right of the free people to keep and bear arms, then by all means oppose adding something else to it. Unfortunately, that's pushing a rope uphill. But I'll keep pushing it anyway.

Edited October 6, 2017 by monkeylizard

[Sam1]

1 hour ago, Dolomite_supafly said:

Sounds pretty insane but that is EXACTLY what everyone who is not against banning the bumpfire stock is doing. I have a question for those of you who are willing to let the bumpstock get banned. Are you OK with a ban on scopes, ammunition, magazines or Magpul furniture? If not then you are a hypocrite. I refuse to sell out my fellow gun owners.

I think you're reading too far into the lines - something is going to happen this time, be assured of that.  Just like one day we woke up and it was then illegal to yell fire in a crowded theater, the 1st amendment was restricted.  Why would we not want to try to control the situation as much as possible.

The debate started too quickly after the incident and not a single person on here wishes it did.  Almost all of the major constraints on rights happen after an incident when people act hastily.  Pro-gun people weren't fighting the stocks on pistols restriction with even 1% of the fury they are fighting the bumpfire stock issue with and it has been going on for decades now.  So why the uproar over a bumpfire stock?  It's because this is the flavor of the day outrage; the same thing the left is guilty of participating in on a regular basis.

Probably be best for all of us to hold off assumptions until more information is out, myself included.

[mikegideon]

You guys make some good points, as usual. I reckon I need to go get me a Slidefire before they're gone.  

[seez52]

Tannerite may also be on the short list.

https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/the-strip/explosive-possessed-by-stephen-paddock-may-have-been-used-in-nyc-bombing/

[Sam1]

Just now, seez52 said:

Tannerite may also be on the short list.

https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/the-strip/explosive-possessed-by-stephen-paddock-may-have-been-used-in-nyc-bombing/

Honestly I'm surprised it has made it this long with all of those videos of people using hundreds of pounds of it to blow up stuff on youtube.  That's on a whole different level than guns.

[hipower]

3 hours ago, mikegideon said:

You guys make some good points, as usual. I reckon I need to go get me a Slidefire before they're gone.  

Good luck. I understood they are about impossible to find at original pricing.

A family member does some 'smithing work for a local businessman. Told me that on Tuesday morning, this guy called and wanted him to order 50 slidefire stocks. This businessman is heavy into stockpiling anything he wants or thinks he needs.

[Chucktshoes]

Here's an illustrated version of the Lawdog post that may be useful for y'all on the book of faces. 

 

[Dolomite_supafly]

Everyone here does realize that hidden away in any BFS ban will be a lot more restrictions. No way in the world will they ONLY ban bump fire stocks. Especially with the NRA calling for them to be banned. Make no mistake when the NRA calls for a review, they are trying to compromise to get some of the heat off of them. Right now the Dems are on a warpath with the NRA and the NRA is backing down to them.

Collectively, we are about to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

I have said it before and will say it again. Gun owners have no problems throwing other gun owners under the bus so long as it does not affect them personally. I hear from my fellow gun owners about how this gun should be outlawed or that gun should be regulated. In the end we will be left with nothing.

[mikegideon]

12 minutes ago, Dolomite_supafly said:

Everyone here does realize that hidden away in any BFS ban will be a lot more restrictions. No way in the world will they ONLY ban bump fire stocks. Especially with the NRA calling for them to be banned. Make no mistake when the NRA calls for a review, they are trying to compromise to get some of the heat off of them. Right now the Dems are on a warpath with the NRA and the NRA is backing down to them.

Collectively, we are about to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

I have said it before and will say it again. Gun owners have no problems throwing other gun owners under the bus so long as it does not affect them personally. I hear from my fellow gun owners about how this gun should be outlawed or that gun should be regulated. In the end we will be left with nothing.

You may be missing the big thing. The NRA wants the ATF to take this up by simply revoking their approval. Their position is to keep it out of congress. Now, if we just gotta have our bump stocks, the the list may expand as you say.

[GlockSpock]

22 minutes ago, mikegideon said:

You may be missing the big thing. The NRA wants the ATF to take this up by simply revoking their approval. Their position is to keep it out of congress. Now, if we just gotta have our bump stocks, the the list may expand as you say.

But, with a "Pro-Gun" President and a "Pro-Gun" House and a "Pro-Gun" Senate, explain to me why anything "needs" to be "compromised"? Seems to me if anyone truly was "Pro-Gun" and anyone truly hand any backbone and truly represented We The People, then absolutely, literally, nothing could be done and we could just go forward.

As tragic as it was, after Sandy Hook a lot of pro gun people fought and fought and fought, because "Obama!". I thought an AWB was coming down the pipe but it never did. Now this has happened and a lot of those very same "pro gun people" are saying "Look, this is reasonable, lets do this, it doesn't affect me,".

It's easy to keep things out of Congress when you control both the House and the Senate in terms of political parties. I think this is a decent litmus test to determine exactly how "Pro-Gun" many Republicans that advertise themselves as such are.

Edited October 6, 2017 by CZ9MM

[bersaguy]

Ok I know this is not about the Bump stocks but I keep hearing on the news about how he got all that stuff up to the room. Is it not possible that because all huge casino's offer Bell Hops and customer service people to assist most high rollers with comp rooms to get all their bags to their rooms on the elevators without knowing what is in the bags they are taking to the room? Would that not explain the help he had getting all the stuff to his room?..............Just a question?

[MacGyver]

2 minutes ago, bersaguy said:

Ok I know this is not about the Bump stocks but I keep hearing on the news about how he got all that stuff up to the room. Is it not possible that because all huge casino's offer Bell Hops and customer service people to assist most high rollers with comp rooms to get all their bags to their rooms on the elevators without knowing what is in the bags they are taking to the room? Would that not explain the help he had getting all the stuff to his room?..............Just a question?

Security at scale is really hard.  

It’s even harder when you’re trying to also get thousands of people to spend their leisure money with you at the same time.  

[TGO David]

11 minutes ago, bersaguy said:

Ok I know this is not about the Bump stocks but I keep hearing on the news about how he got all that stuff up to the room. Is it not possible that because all huge casino's offer Bell Hops and customer service people to assist most high rollers with comp rooms to get all their bags to their rooms on the elevators without knowing what is in the bags they are taking to the room? Would that not explain the help he had getting all the stuff to his room?..............Just a question?

 

Please don't take this as a personal jab at you.  But, I do not understand the incredulity that everyone seems to be showing toward the fact that this guy lugged that much gear into the hotel by himself and that no one took notice of it.

Seeing someone wheeling big luggage or containers into a hotel and to their room in Vegas is commonplace.  There are so many concerts, conferences, trade shows and other performances in that town that you'd never be given a second thought even if you wheeled in something the size of an elephant.  And as for how he got it to his room, he'd draw far less attention just by using the elevator and accepting help from the porters than he would if someone witnessed him lugging containers 32-flights up the stairs.

Cleaning crews aren't going to pay a moment's notice to big containers or luggage in hotel rooms either.  They generally don't WANT to know what you've got as it not knowing gives them plausible deniability.  It's not called Sin City for nothing!

And just because we haven't seen video footage of him carting this stuff through the hotel lobby and up the elevator, it doesn't mean the footage doesn't exist.  You can't fart in Las Vegas without being on a camera.  The only thing they have more of in Vegas than cameras is slot machines.  Maybe!  So that video exists, trust me.

[MikeW]

6 hours ago, mikegideon said:

You guys make some good points, as usual. I reckon I need to go get me a Slidefire before they're gone.  

Seems that Ole Leonard E. (look at the username) has a few for sale at a PREMIUM price...  

 

http://www.###.com/listings/parts-supplies/other/424040.html

[mikegideon]

46 minutes ago, CZ9MM said:

But, with a "Pro-Gun" President and a "Pro-Gun" House and a "Pro-Gun" Senate, explain to me why anything "needs" to be "compromised"? Seems to me if anyone truly was "Pro-Gun" and anyone truly hand any backbone and truly represented We The People, then absolutely, literally, nothing could be done and we could just go forward.

As tragic as it was, after Sandy Hook a lot of pro gun people fought and fought and fought, because "Obama!". I thought an AWB was coming down the pipe but it never did. Now this has happened and a lot of those very same "pro gun people" are saying "Look, this is reasonable, lets do this, it doesn't affect me,".

It's easy to keep things out of Congress when you control both the House and the Senate in terms of political parties. I think this is a decent litmus test to determine exactly how "Pro-Gun" many Republicans that advertise themselves as such are.

I don't know the answer to that. I don't think they will pass anything. There is no compromise if the ATF just reverses their position. AFIK, they can do that. If they do, ain't #### any of us can say about it. We're back to using our thumbs.

[TGO David]

8 minutes ago, MikeW said:

Seems that Ole Leonard E. (look at the username) has a few for sale at a PREMIUM price...  

 

http://www.###.com/listings/parts-supplies/other/424040.html

That does NOT surprise me at all.

[mikegideon]

1 hour ago, MikeW said:

Seems that Ole Leonard E. (look at the username) has a few for sale at a PREMIUM price...  

 

http://www.###.com/listings/parts-supplies/other/424040.html

I'm pretty sure Lenny hates me.

[mikegideon]

1 hour ago, TGO David said:

That does NOT surprise me at all.

I'm pretty sure he hates you too. Looks like we gotta use our thumbs