Las Vegas Shooting

[Sam1]

3 hours ago, mikegideon said:

Hickok45's Facebook post. Copied here without permission...

Well, I suppose I'll pick up a few extra "haters" about this, as well as people who think I'm supporting the NRA ONLY because they support us.
Even though John has not totally agreed with me this week, I've been making the comment all week how crazy it is that something most serious shooters couldn't care less about is such a point of focus, being used to demonize all gun owners. I'm assuming the NRA gave this issue very serious consideration, and like me, decided that these bump stocks, which did not even exist ten years ago, are not something worth "falling on our swords" over. There are WAY more important battles down the road.
Many of you will not agree with me, but all of us need to make sure we continue contacting our representatives and gun rights organizations. Make your voice heard and let them know where you stand on all these issues. They all work for us.
weekhttps://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/las-vegas-shooting/nra-backs-additional-regulations-rapid-fire-gun-bump-stocks-n808121

I think just about everyone is on board with this line of thinking, with a few on the fringes as always.

[FUJIMO]

34 minutes ago, 2.ooohhh said:

If it's the Franklin Armory one they were north of $400 to begin with IIRC.

Just said "buynarey triger like nu.by it why u can" Im just sure it was top notch,lol. People crack me up.

[GlockSpock]

It's frustrating because for years the ATF has upheld that 1 trigger pull = 1 bullet fired = not a machine gun. Now, I will admit that it could be argued that devices like this violate the spirit of the law, it isn't technically in violation of the law itself according to the ATF. Now, you have people on the GOP side proposing this stuff, which supposedly goes against what everyone likes the GOP for anyways. Will it affect me if they ban these stocks in any way? No, I don't plan on getting one. Would it affect me if they banned $100 Saturday night specials or $10,000 custom rifles? Not at this point in my life, but I don't want them banning anything that the constitution guarantees us in the first place. Luckily to most in this world, my opinion matters very little.

If we/anyone caves into this right now, then next time someone with any clue/skill and tactical planning commits another atrocity, then we as a collective whole will have to ban something else that gave the shooter in that scenario an advantage. Next time it might be high cap magazines, detachable magazines, or combat optics (red dot, etc). 

Edited October 6, 2017 by CZ9MM

[GlockSpock]

I will state this, I personally would give up “bump fire stocks” to remove SBR’s from the NFA. I’d be so interested in a factory CZ Scorpion with folding stock, the short version not the carbine.


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[FUJIMO]

3 minutes ago, CZ9MM said:

I will state this, I personally would give up “bump fire stocks” to remove SBR’s from the NFA. I’d be so interested in a factory CZ Scorpion with folding stock, the short version not the carbine.


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Unfortunately they just take and give nothing back. Looks like BFS could be outlawed within a week of the incident. Record time for libs and GOP alike. Unreal !

[mikegideon]

Just watched Wayne on Hannity

[shotgunshooter]

Just watched Wayne on Hannity

How did that go?

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[Sam1]

9 minutes ago, FUJIMO said:

Unfortunately they just take and give nothing back. Looks like BFS could be outlawed within a week of the incident. Record time for libs and GOP alike. Unreal !

I don't think it's unreal.  consider the situation as a whole - the dems have been frothing at the mouth since sandy hook with multiple bills already written just waiting for a crisis.  They have been shot down at a 100% rate since then.  We're not going to bat 1000 forever, so why not toss them a bit of bait?

[GlockSpock]

I don't think it's unreal.  consider the situation as a whole - the dems have been frothing at the mouth since sandy hook with multiple bills already written just waiting for a crisis.  They have been shot down at a 100% rate since then.  We're not going to bat 1000 forever, so why not toss them a bit of bait?

Well, for one, with a “Republican” president and Congress, we don’t have to toss them the bait.

Let’s not forget what happens when you start feeding animals.


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[MacGyver]

There’s always another slice of cake to be had...

[mikegideon]

11 minutes ago, Sam1 said:

I don't think it's unreal.  consider the situation as a whole - the dems have been frothing at the mouth since sandy hook with multiple bills already written just waiting for a crisis.  They have been shot down at a 100% rate since then.  We're not going to bat 1000 forever, so why not toss them a bit of bait?

But, I want my plastic bump stock because it is so useful. I can't live without it. I'm gonna quit the NRA. Geez

[GlockSpock]

I don't think it's unreal.  consider the situation as a whole - the dems have been frothing at the mouth since sandy hook with multiple bills already written just waiting for a crisis.  They have been shot down at a 100% rate since then.  We're not going to bat 1000 forever, so why not toss them a bit of bait?

 

But, “they” are “we” and in this case the “we” is “them” and not “us”.

 

Reagan signed in the last major AWB. Let’s not become complacent just because we pretend to want to trust Trump with the 2nd.

 

For years people dug up quotes from Obama’s books insinuating support of Islam.

 

Shall we do the same regarding some of Trump’s older books regarding the 2nd?

 

I’m not convinced. Sure, he hopefully is better than Hillary would have been, but I don’t consider him a strong ally either regarding that right.

 

 

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[Murgatroy]

The letter I just read from the NRA explicitly stated at the end that it would get behind banning bump stocks in trade for a national reciprocity.

 

IMO the bump stock is a useless item. I am more concerned about binary triggers being wrapped up in the wording though. While it would be easiest for the ATF to just reevaluate the bump stock, we are then in a situation where Congress and their constituents again feel that everyone has looked the other way after a tragedy. If letting them pass a law that puts bump stocks on the NFA list while permitting national reciprocity makes the left feel safe, I am all for it. Tit for Tat watch what the left hand is doing pay no attention to the right... 

 

I hate a slippery slope, and I fully feel that 'shall not be infringed' means just that. However, we are all fools if we think that there is no room to wiggle on this. Give up a useless item to let things go back to status quo or fight it tooth and nail, lose the majority in a short while and lose it all... Let them win this one, especially if it comes with a national reciprocity clause.

[btq96r]

7 minutes ago, Murgatroy said:

The letter I just read from the NRA explicitly stated at the end that it would get behind banning bump stocks in trade for a national reciprocity.

The time for trading is when you're forced to by divided government, or by being in the absolute minority so you can at least soften the blow in exchange for allowing the other side label it bipartisan.

[Murgatroy]

Just now, btq96r said:

The time for trading is when you're forced to by divided government, or by being in the absolute minority so you can at least soften the blow in exchange for allowing the other side label it bipartisan.

I agree. And I see the right forcing the left to accept a national reciprocity being a bigger win for us than losing bump stocks. Thus I am seeing it exactly as you describe. Frankly you and I both know if we put our foot down, nothing will get done. By either side.

[btq96r]

3 minutes ago, Murgatroy said:

I agree. And I see the right forcing the left to accept a national reciprocity being a bigger win for us than losing bump stocks. Thus I am seeing it exactly as you describe. Frankly you and I both know if we put our foot down, nothing will get done. By either side.

We won't see national reciprocity in this kind of deal.  The only way it comes is if Republicans push it through by forcing votes they have the majority for.  If they have to do that, what's the point of regulating bump fire stocks?

Edited October 6, 2017 by btq96r

[Dave Keenom]

Bump fire stocks are not my thing but why should we ban anything just because a criminal used it to commit a crime.

 

Do not see Canada banning large trucks.

They pretty much banned guns but when I was there last month a British soldier attending the match I was at got hit in a driveby shooting off post.

 

Gun control is working well for them.

 

[Murgatroy]

6 minutes ago, btq96r said:

We won't see national reciprocity in this kind of deal.  The only way it comes is if Republicans push it through by forcing votes they have the majority for.  If they have to do that, what's the point of regulating bump fire stocks?

Because it takes the sting away, just like you mentioned. It makes everyone feel warm and fuzzy and it allows both sides to say they came together and accomplished something meaningful. National reciprocity means little of anything to anyone outside of a permit holder, and after all those of us permitted have all the background checks and the like the left think don't exist and want enacted. A useless accessory that no one wanted or used anyways is put on a list that you have to pay $200 to use, and no one will. Both sides get to pose and say they did something in the wake of this latest tragedy, the public goes away happy that something was FINALLY done. They have no clue that no one wanted or used bump fire stocks before this. And then I don't have to leave my firearms at home next time I vacation in Maryland, or Washington.

 

I don't want to see anything else regulated. I want more deregulation, but it is a game of chess. If losing a pawn saves my rook... We are all burying our heads in the sand if we think we can keep winning every fight in the wake of tragedies like this. Could it be a huge misstep? Of course, but so could doing nothing. If the public, not sides, get so enraged at a lack of action, there is a chance in coming elections that anyone touting gun reform gets a vote regardless. And that would be a huge loss for us. I claim neither left nor right as a comfortable home, but the right does believe in a few of my issues more strongly than the left. Fiscal responsibility (what there is today) and gun rights. I support a lot of liberal social issues, but they are not nearly as important to me as the two I just mentioned.

[btq96r]

12 minutes ago, Murgatroy said:

but it is a game of chess. If losing a pawn saves my rook...

Using this analogy, your rook isn't in danger at this moment.  So why give up the pawn before you have to (ie: when Democrats get enough leverage back)?

[Murgatroy]

2 minutes ago, btq96r said:

Using this analogy, your rook isn't in danger at this moment.  So why give up the pawn before you have to (ie: when Democrats get enough leverage back)?

You are correct, I suppose my statement should have been "If losing my pawn gets my rook back."

[Chucktshoes]

1 hour ago, MacGyver said:

There’s always another slice of cake to be had...

I'm glad someone remembers Lawdog. 

[Omega]

3 minutes ago, Murgatroy said:

You are correct, I suppose my statement should have been "If losing my pawn gets my rook back."

Problem is, we never get any pieces back once we lose them.  I say fight this, fight it tooth and nail.

[Wingshooter]

The dems don't play nice when they're in control, and they won't play nice next time no matter what good will is shown them by the gop.

 

If they want a trade, then how about the bump fires can go on the NFA in exchange for abolishing the National Firearms Act? Sounds fair to me

 

[Sam1]

1 hour ago, CZ9MM said:

 

Well, for one, with a “Republican” president and Congress, we don’t have to toss them the bait.

Let’s not forget what happens when you start feeding animals.


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Obviously this is a very opinionated topic that is pure speculation at this point.

On a side note, with this level of rebuke the houses are putting up against the white house, I'm not sure anyone is playing on the same team.

Edited October 6, 2017 by Sam1

[Grand Torino]

First of all I have no use for bump stocks. Never have and never will. That being said please don't parlay my rights.

To be honest I've kinda had it with my rights being parlayed, compromised and negotiated. What these goobers don't understand is that there is no compromise. I've been watching the stupidity being bantered about and seeing some #### that is really starting to piss me off right now. And in my mind they really don't have the authority.

I'm tired and fed up. It's past time to remind these idiots they work for us and answer to us....not their own personal agenda. And I for one say to these people "No, enough is enough". You don't get to make that decision for me. You don't get to do that so no....screw you...no.

There are calls to repeal or abolish the Second Amendment. Go ahead, what you aren't getting is that piece of paper doesn't give me that right. It simply acknowledges that right does in fact exist. Go ahead...take the whole freakin' Constitution. No piece of paper ever granted a damn thing but quite a few take more and more away. The Constitution grants nothing and therefore can't deny either. What people don't seem to understand are my rights are above the Constitution which means they are above them as well. So to them I say screw you...no more.

If you want my personal property than you come and get it. You....don't send some lackey to do your dirty work. You show me the depths of your convictions and I'll show you mine. To the guy that might end up at my door.... I only say "Don't be the lackey". You're answer should be No...screw you...not no but hell no.

 

Edited October 6, 2017 by Grand Torino