Can local gov ban carry in parks?

[TheFeller]

Hey guys. Just took my concealed carry class yesterday. One thing the instructor told me didn't seem right.

 

He said that local governments are allowed to ban permit holders from carrying in parks. He specifically said Hamilton county didn't allow it. I was under the impression that it is now allowed state wide and no city/county/etc could stop that?

Can someone please clarify for me if this guy was wrong, or am I missing something?

 

[chances R]

Short answer, if the park is being used for an official school event one is not allowed to carry during those times of the event.  Additionally, if all public entrances to a park are manned by security/police and a metal detector is used AND all bags are inspected, and posted one cannot carry.  As a general rule, in TN, you can carry in public parks.

[Ugly]

You're correct, legally they cannot ban in parks. But they do and have been since the law passed. In Knoxville they even went as far as using metal detectors and searching folks for an event at "Chilohowee Park". The city claims  that it really isn't a park and there fore can ban as they desire. 

Just waiting for someone to be the test case to fight it. I don't believe many people want to go to the poor house because of the legal process. 

Some smart people on the subject here, namely (hat tip) Oh Shoot, he does his homework on the legal mumbo. 

I'm not sure about the school function deal.

 

https://www.tngunowners.com/forums/topic/104348-knox-tn-valley-fair-nothing-really-changed/?do=findComment&comment=1458825

 

[Oh Shoot]

3 hours ago, Ugly said:

You're correct, legally they cannot ban in parks. But they do and have been since the law passed. In Knoxville they even went as far as using metal detectors and searching folks for an event at "Chilohowee Park". The city claims  that it really isn't a park and there fore can ban as they desire. 

Just waiting for someone to be the test case to fight it. I don't believe many people want to go to the poor house because of the legal process. 

....

Already been fought. Settled with the lady who sued on her own for first precedent (can carry in Chilhowee when no park wide event is going on), and seems the second suit backed by TFA/NRA has been just dropped due to the change in law last session regarding the metal detector/police presence clause in 1359, which specifically does apply to recreational property also by the wording in the statute change.

- OS

 

Edited October 1, 2017 by Oh Shoot

[TheFeller]

Thanks for the replies guys. I was thinking it should be allowed as long as no school event or metal detectors were being used at entrance.

Needed to confirm I wasn't crazy, since someone I figured really should know (the instructor) contradicted that.

[Oh Shoot]

7 minutes ago, TheFeller said:

Thanks for the replies guys. I was thinking it should be allowed as long as no school event or metal detectors were being used at entrance.

....

Even if school event is being held, you are only prohibited from carrying in the immediate vicinity of that activity, not in the whole park.

- OS

[chances R]

4 hours ago, Oh Shoot said:

Even if school event is being held, you are only prohibited from carrying in the immediate vicinity of that activity, not in the whole park.

- OS 

As always, 99.9% of the time, Oh Shoot is correct.  The problem is an overzealous LEO may not know that and pops you.  Looking at the defense of a felony.  So better safe than sorry;  if school is there and you know it, better off leaving.

[Guest PAULSHOOT]

Related.

I use the Gym at Pigeon Forge (city property - community center) and they have a sign on door (don't remember exact wording -- but deal is No Weapons Inside  and I think wording says on property, so maybe even applies to parking lot as all of that is part of the facility). 

I thought I would see that sign disappear when TN Passed the law about have to have Security and/or Metal Detectors if Carry Not Allowed. (By The Way, I don't know the exact wording of the TN Law). 

Wonder what anyone thinks about this?

Thought about contacting the City Manager or Facility Manger to ask, but have not.   

[Oh Shoot]

24 minutes ago, PAULSHOOT said:

Related.

I use the Gym at Pigeon Forge (city property - community center) and they have a sign on door (don't remember exact wording -- but deal is No Weapons Inside  and I think wording says on property, so maybe even applies to parking lot as all of that is part of the facility). 

I thought I would see that sign disappear when TN Passed the law about have to have Security and/or Metal Detectors if Carry Not Allowed. (By The Way, I don't know the exact wording of the TN Law). 

Wonder what anyone thinks about this?

Thought about contacting the City Manager or Facility Manger to ask, but have not.   

Neither original statute (39-17-1311) that allowed permit holders to carry in county/city parks/recreational areas, nor the latest revision to 39-17-1359 mandated that existing signage be changed.

So now you have signs on city/county rec property that may be:

- invalid because it's legal for permit holder to carry there

- valid because the scanner/police conditions are met

- invalid or valid because the local gummit claims that the area does not actually fit in the definition of park/recreational area, and hasn't been tested through courts

- OS

Edited November 11, 2017 by Oh Shoot

[Guest PAULSHOOT]

On 11/10/2017 at 9:28 PM, Oh Shoot said:

Neither original statute (39-17-1311) that allowed permit holders to carry in county/city parks/recreational areas, nor the latest revision to 39-17-1359 mandated that existing signage be changed.

So now you have signs on city/county rec property that may be:

- invalid because it's legal for permit holder to carry there

- valid because the scanner/police conditions are met

- invalid or valid because the local gummit claims that the area does not actually fit in the definition of park/recreational area, and hasn't been tested through courts

- OS

Thanks  -- as usual, its a DANG mess of local (city, state, whatever) doing their own thing. WISH I KNEW WHO in CITY or STATE to Discuss this with.  

So DANG confusing -- I am too the point would as soon have one rule for whole country (same in every state, building, whatever) regardless of the outcome.

State's Rights are somewhat a ridiculous hold over from many / many moons ago when folks did not get 5 miles from home in a lifetime and setup, I think, to get the states to join the Union (USA) to start with. State Big Shots wanted to have their hold on power I imagine.  

Edited December 18, 2017 by PAULSHOOT

[Sidecarist]

2 hours ago, PAULSHOOT said:

Thanks  -- as usual, its a DANG mess of local (city, state, whatever) doing their own thing. WISH I KNEW WHO in CITY or STATE to Discuss this with.  

So DANG confusing -- I am too the point would as soon have one rule for whole country (same in every state, building, whatever) regardless of the outcome.

State's Rights are somewhat a ridiculous hold over from many / many moons ago when folks did not get 5 miles from home in a lifetime and setup, I think, to get the states to join the Union (USA) to start with. State Big Shots wanted to have their hold on power I imagine.  

More importantly states rights was intended to restrict Federal government and make local/state government more directly responsible to the citizens.

Over time the basic foundation of our founding, the principal of Natural Rights has been forgotten. Government has taken more and more responsibility & rights from our citizens and lazy people have let them....

[bersaguy]

I try to avoid any conflicts regarding state and local parks when at all possible because the laws change as fast as the weather does in Tennessee and it's almost imposssible to keep up with them...................... 

[peejman]

4 hours ago, PAULSHOOT said:

Thanks  -- as usual, its a DANG mess of local (city, state, whatever) doing their own thing. WISH I KNEW WHO in CITY or STATE to Discuss this with.  

So DANG confusing -- I am too the point would as soon have one rule for whole country (same in every state, building, whatever) regardless of the outcome.

State's Rights are somewhat a ridiculous hold over from many / many moons ago when folks did not get 5 miles from home in a lifetime and setup, I think, to get the states to join the Union (USA) to start with. State Big Shots wanted to have their hold on power I imagine.  

Yes, it's confusing. I'm convinced that's not an accident. 

One rule for all?  Sure. No one who doesn't know someone in high places can carry anywhere.  A license and registration is required to purchase any sort of weapon (gun, ammo, knife, baton,...) and you must allow the authorities to inspect your weapon any time they want to. 

Sounds great, don't you think?