3 teams sit out the anthem

[peejman]

1 hour ago, btq96r said:

I don't know about every player who took a knee or raised a fist on Sunday, but Colin Kapernick as put his money where his knee is at least, being named the Week 1 Community MVP even as a free agent.  He's been donating to various causes on the way to a total of a pledged million...not an insignificant amount when you consider he may never see another NFL contract again.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/09/15/colin-kaepernick-nflpa-charity-community-mvp

Good. He should recruit 500 other players organize, speak with one voice, and to do the same things in their respective communities.

Add another couple hundred of their NBA and MLB buddies and you've got a formidable force with huge resources to exact change across the country.  It's an interesting narrative that a handful of professional athletes likely have more resources than the governments of communities in which they live. 

[Capbyrd]

A friend posted this on Facebook today.  It’s relevant to the last few posts.  

 

“

First of all, I want to make clear that I always show respect to the flag and have never done anything to defile one. I stand for the anthem, remove my hat. I always will.

However, what makes America great is our freedoms. It may be tacky, but it's peaceful and protected first amendment speech. How better to honor our veterans than to exercise the rights, freedoms, and liberties they fought for? And if you don't stand up for the right of everyone to free speech, especially speech you find offensive, one day you may lose your rights to free speech.

The point of this post is this: I keep seeing on my feed people putting down these athletes calling them all kinds of negative names and saying they have nothing positive to contribute to society, that they are whiny, spoiled rich a-holes. To that I say I did a bit of research (and I keep up with the nfl year round as if it were my job) and found that these ungrateful scumbag thugs are some of the most charitable people in America, year in and year out for a long, long time.

Just from my team alone I found brian orakpo, who raises money and awareness for the leukemia and lymphoma society, sent supplies and help to hurricane Harvey survivors, and has programs in Africa for youth drug awareness and prevention, etc; jurrell casey, who founded the Casey fund, a non profit dedicated to raising money for inner city youth programs, halfway houses, mentoring, and re-entry programs  (from prison), helps raise money for big brothers, big sisters of middle tennessee, etc; logan ryan, who founded the ryan animal rescue foundation for dogs with his wife, etc; delanie walker, who is a spokesman for mothers against drunk driving (MADD) and helped lobby for in-car breathalyzers for repeat DUI offenders, has gone on more than one USO tour to support the troops, started the delanie walker gives back foundation which helps inner city and low income kids with educational opportunities and resources like college scholarships, new books for 160 Nashville area classrooms, brand new library for 32 schools, etc; the Mccourty twins raise awareness and money for sickle cell research, etc.

This is just a few guys from one team. All 32 have similar stories and each year I see multiple teams host a free thanksgiving meal to area homeless and needy, with the rich, spoiled brat, losers actually serving the food and cleaning up. The guy who started it all, colin kaepernick, has sent millions of tons of food and water to famine ravaged Somalia. Stars like odell Beckham jr. (those who know me know I'm not a fan) fly on their own dime and time to visit with kids in hospitals with all kinds of terrible ailments.

My final point: just because these players didn't choose the form of protest you preferred doesn't mean they are savages. Just because you don't agree with their politics doesn't mean they aren't a positive force in their communities. Just because you don't make millions to play a game doesn't mean they haven't worked very hard and made lots of sacrifices. Boycotting is fine if that's what you want to do, but these players have every right to exercise their first amendment rights. No one is saying you have to agree.”

[DMark]

Well....., on WLAC Ch5 Delanie Walker just said that he didn't care if anybody comes to the games.

".... And the fans that don't want to come to the game, OK, Bye!" - Delanie Walker

http://www.newschannel5.com/news/fans-and-players-weigh-in-on-national-anthem-protest

FINE! GOOD BYE!!!!!!

 

Edited September 26, 2017 by DMark

[FUJIMO]

15 hours ago, bersaguy said:

I think Jerry Jones has already made his feelings know to his Cowboys so I don't think any of them will be taking a knee or not being on the side line for the Anthem unless they would like to be job hunting pretty quick and I would think they might have learned from Kaepernicks experience but then one never knows!!!.............JMHO

 

16 hours ago, DaveTN said:

Not all of the NFL is involved. I don’t think you will see any Dallas Cowboys taking a knee. The Titans should be ashamed and we should be ashamed of them.

Ya'll spoke too soon. I would say this was an "all in" Takeaknee ,lol !

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/25/sports/football/cowboys-cardinals-anthem-protest.html?mcubz=1

Edited September 26, 2017 by FUJIMO
spelling

[tnhawk]

1 hour ago, FUJIMO said:

 

Ya'll spoke too soon. I would say this was an "all in" Takeaknee ,lol !

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/25/sports/football/cowboys-cardinals-anthem-protest.html?mcubz=1

I have no idea what any player did.  I didn't watch.

[GlockSpock]

I did not think I was going to write anything regarding this topic but I changed my mind. First and foremost, let me offer that disclaimer that I do not really spend any time watching any sport. I'm the guy that someone strikes up conversation with regarding a football game or player and I ask "which game?" or "who's that?".

I also will state that I have not taken the time to specifically research the ins and outs as to why certain players/teams are protesting. So with all of that being said, let me say that I fully support them doing so. I believe many here likely, whether they realize it or not, oppose the players' protests because Trump is president. Since you see Trump as being "a good fit", you see any dissent against him or his administration as wrong/misplaced.

However, let me paint a conflicting picture. To the people that are "outraged" at the players' protests, how many of you would have been equally "outraged" at any of the following? What if Tim Tebow had taken a knee in response to Obama painting the White House in rainbow colors? What if a group of players protested Obamacare, calls for gun control, etc? Now, there are many faithful and red blooded Americans that do and will always object to any objection to the flag, anthem, etc, but I bet that as you think through the list of possible reasons to "sit out" an anthem, eventually most of you will at minimum understand why someone would do such a thing. Perhaps to you, sitting out an anthem on the same day Obama painted the White House with rainbow colors would have been acceptable because to you painting the White House with rainbow colors was a direction that you did not want the country to go.

My point is that in my opinion, one can protest the country, policies, leaders, administration, etc while still loving the country, servicemen and their sacrifices, etc. I do not automatically equate disrespect to the flag or any other symbol as disrespect to servicemen, their sacrifices, etc. It can, but it depends on contest based on who is doing the protesting and why they are protesting in the first place. To disagree with any of the aforementioned does not automatically give reason to leave the country and go to a place such as North Korea or Iran. You can and should be able to disagree with something and then try to encourage though, conversation, and change.

In my opinion, them taking a knee during the anthem is a wonderful form of protest. It gathers attention to their issues, is nonviolent, and isn't even inconvenient to others. I would much rather see a team of NFL players taking a knee during the anthem rather than blocking a major highway, becoming violent in DC or any other major city, etc.

Obviously the right to protest simply protects protest from action/persecution from the government. That's greatly covered. I also firmly believe that any private entity should be able to hire and fire at their discretion, including the topic at hand. What I personally disagree with is any private entity requiring certain motions/support of the government/flag/anthem, etc. Sure, today, perhaps it is an issue that you care little about. What about when it is tomorrow and a topic you love dearly (freedom of worship, firearms, etc)?

I personally attempt to be fair minded towards all respectable forms of protest. To me that basically consists of being non-violent, keeping in mind the property rights of others, impacting the personal rights of others as little as possible, etc. Go stand in the middle of a freeway and block traffic? That's wrong. Stand in front of a tank or set oneself on fire? I respect their right to do so.

[Omega]

First let me say that the way Dallas did their little protest is the way to go.  They did their kneeling then promptly got up and respected the flag and the anthem, good for them.  As to my reaction to ANY player who chooses the flag/anthem as their protest, screw them!  I don't give a crap about what got their panties in a bunch that day, disrespecting the flag and what it stands for is never ok with me.  While I served and fought for those rights, I don't have to like the way they exercise them.  Just like the Westboro a-holes, I don't dispute their right to protest, but it doesn't mean I have to like it. 

[Omega]

4 hours ago, FUJIMO said:

 

Ya'll spoke too soon. I would say this was an "all in" Takeaknee ,lol !

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/25/sports/football/cowboys-cardinals-anthem-protest.html?mcubz=1

No, for me at least, it's not about taking a knee, it's about disrespecting the Flag, and the American Anthem. 

[FUJIMO]

27 minutes ago, Omega said:

No, for me at least, it's not about taking a knee, it's about disrespecting the Flag, and the American Anthem. 

I was pointing out that Dallas fell in line with what many others in the NFL did on Sunday during the anthem. The "takeaknee" was simply a poke out our media, both local and national, not a jab at anyone in this forum or their personal beliefs .

[john455]

47 minutes ago, Omega said:

First let me say that the way Dallas did their little protest is the way to go.  They did their kneeling then promptly got up and respected the flag and the anthem, good for them.  As to my reaction to ANY player who chooses the flag/anthem as their protest, screw them!  I don't give a crap about what got their panties in a bunch that day, disrespecting the flag and what it stands for is never ok with me.  While I served and fought for those rights, I don't have to like the way they exercise them.  Just like the Westboro a-holes, I don't dispute their right to protest, but it doesn't mean I have to like it. 

+1 

As I have said before, them taking a knee in protest isn't  what I have a problem with. I have a problem with them taking a knee during the national anthem. I never have, and never will be a Dallas Cowboys fan, but the way they protested, but still honored the Flag and Anthem raised them in my eyes immeasurably!!

[partypilot1]

Meanwhile, a person is murdered and others shot for being Christian while attending church service in Nashville.... and all the national news channels talk about some dumb entertainers taking a knee 

[Omega]

3 minutes ago, partypilot1 said:

Meanwhile, a person is murdered and others shot for being Christian while attending church service in Nashville.... and all the national news channels talk about some dumb entertainers taking a knee 

Nothing to see here...

[MacGyver]

Interesting article from last year.  Kaepernick started the protest by sitting on the bench - but then decided to kneel instead after meeting with veterans - specifically to continue to show respect.  

The analogy was, we kneel when we pray. We kneel when we present flags to the families of fallen soldiers. 

https://undertheradar.military.com/2016/09/kaepernick-meets-veteran-nate-boyer-kneels-anthem/

This is offered without commentary, but offers interesting insight within the framing of the current debate.  

[Capbyrd]

So it's about disrespecting the flag and the anthem to y'all, huh? 

How many times have you stopped somewhere that was flying the flag and took their ratty flag down to properly retire it?  Maybe you didn't go that far but you made it a point to talk to the management about proper flag etiquette.  I bet the answer is fewer than 10.   I've talked to lots of management, and even replaced some flags at my own expense.  No, I didn't serve but I had great reverence for the flag and what it stood for growing up.  And although my idea about this country has greatly changed, I still have that reverence for the flag in more of an idealistic way.  I still don't think the players are doing anything disrespectful but apparently that is subjective.  

 

[n0rlf]

23 minutes ago, Capbyrd said:

So it's about disrespecting the flag and the anthem to y'all, huh? 

How many times have you stopped somewhere that was flying the flag and took their ratty flag down to properly retire it?  Maybe you didn't go that far but you made it a point to talk to the management about proper flag etiquette.  I bet the answer is fewer than 10.   I've talked to lots of management, and even replaced some flags at my own expense.  No, I didn't serve but I had great reverence for the flag and what it stood for growing up.  And although my idea about this country has greatly changed, I still have that reverence for the flag in more of an idealistic way.  I still don't think the players are doing anything disrespectful but apparently that is subjective.  

 

I have given flags when they did not have one to replace a ratty flag. I have spoken to many people about the ratty flag flying being a dishonor. I know lots of family and friends that have done the same. 

Free speech and protest are great. Have at it. Just choose the proper place and time. During the anthem is not it in my opinion. So you have the right to protest where and when you want but I do not have the right to object? How does that work? Seems like the usual liberal B's to me that refuse any view point other than their own. 

Edited September 26, 2017 by n0rlf
Grammar

[Omega]

42 minutes ago, Capbyrd said:

So it's about disrespecting the flag and the anthem to y'all, huh? 

How many times have you stopped somewhere that was flying the flag and took their ratty flag down to properly retire it?  Maybe you didn't go that far but you made it a point to talk to the management about proper flag etiquette.  I bet the answer is fewer than 10.   I've talked to lots of management, and even replaced some flags at my own expense.  No, I didn't serve but I had great reverence for the flag and what it stood for growing up.  And although my idea about this country has greatly changed, I still have that reverence for the flag in more of an idealistic way.  I still don't think the players are doing anything disrespectful but apparently that is subjective.  

 

Count me in as one of the 10.  I have let management know about flags that needed replacement, and have given them contact info for the boy scout troops that perform flag retirement ceremonies. I have stopped by the side of the highway to pickup flags that have blown off the poles, and retired quite a few myself.  I don't view flying a flag that needs retirement as disrespect, improper etiquette maybe, but not disrespect.  At least they have taken the time to fly one.  I personally don't have a flag flying, because I know that I may not pay as much attention to it as is necessary, and don't have the proper setup to fly one 24/7.  I flew a few of course but with so many getting blown off the pole (pole and all in some cases) I just quit flying them altogether.

[A.J. Holst]

I haven't spent a nickle on professional game playing in years not going to start now. Had no idea they had  to be paid to show patriotism, always assumed sports team were present at the National Anthem.

I do understand Colin K's protesting police brutality against African Americans by kneeling during the National Anthem.

Here is where it has gone the rails.

The folks with the narrative of "we chose national anthem because it represents the systemic exploitation of Africans Americans and preserves the underlying truth, white cops are now the modern overseers of the Black population."

Colin's intent and messaging has devolved to a emotionally charged atmosphere of race, entitlement, ingratitude, and mob mentality.

If the NFL would support a league wide movement for awareness, hold players to a minimal standard of, "don't do stuff to get the cops called on you," and invest the time off the field of play, they may have more success and positive impact

Unless of course, it is only convenient to protest for 3 minutes per week while on the clock.

[tacops]

I can't quit watching professional ball games over this because I quit watching, listening, or following professional games several years back.  I became fed up with the attitude of so called professional athletes in general and lost interest.  I have only watched very few collegiate games over the last few years for many of the same reasons.  If I want to watch a game where the player is playing for the love of the game and competition I will go catch a high school game.  The athletic talent may not be as developed but there is a heck of a lot more heart in the game.

Secondly,  does anybody remember the baseball strike?  Yeah, how did that work out for them.  People turned off to professional baseball and it still hasn't fully recovered.  NASCAR and professional bass fishing boomed though.  Prior to the strike you rarely ever saw a NASCAR race on TV and bass tournaments had not been televised prior to that.  Networks had to fill air time thus the launch of both.  Now if they want to drop the NFL and replace with, say, Women's Beach Volleyball, then I may become an avid spectator all over again.  Providing they properly recognize the National Anthem.

[leroy]

There has been enough platitudinous malarkey written here and other places to fertilize Texas... Some of us here (...me, at least...) think this whole thing is part of a bigger issue... That issue is the Post Modern World View that seeks to de-construct everything... period... That includes government (...especially, if it's a republican form of government...), the legal system (...no one should be oppressed, questioned, or detained by brutal police, even if he resists or does something dangerous and stupid; especially if he is "a person of color"...), The Capitalist System (...It's oppressive and some folks get more than others... that aint fair...), White People (...they are the original colonialist, expansionists, oppressors ya know... All indigenous peoples are greater than them...They had a paradise before the white man came...), and lastly; its about "... I don't like the duly elected president of this country and i'll politicize everything in an attempt to make him look bad and spit on everyone of you country bumpkins who voted for him..."; and i may even spark enough civil unrest to undo everything that the 2016 election brought to the USA... 

We can quibble about whether Trump should have started this conflagration; but it's irrelevant... He did... On a personal basis and from a political standpoint, I think it was a masterful move that allowed him to wrap himself in the flag, tap into the disgust of most working Americans, and call out and expose for all to see the over-privileged babys of the NFL, their enablers, and cheerleaders as what they really are... A bunch of Overbearing, Selfish, Anti-Law and Order, Self-Centered Anti-everything but what they think is appropriate on all levels nitwits... It's playing the "tribal game" that the demorats love so well on his terms... A helluva idea, i think... It paints these clowns for exactly what they are... 

There are those here who think that somehow their freedoms have been lessened as the result of this feud... I got news; they aint... Just because some official of government (...Trump..) says somethin ya don't like on a personal basis; it doesn't follow that it smacks of "suppression of political expression" and disbandment of "The Arena of Ideas"... Far from it... It doesn't follow that their speech, no matter how heinous and distasteful to some ears, has somehow nullified the Bill of Rights and the Constitution...

You enjoy the same right to "speak in the public forum" and be free of government oppression for it that you always did (...except for when the demorats were runnin things... Ask some of the right leaning groups about it that had to talk to the IRS...), no matter what Donald Trump says, and no matter who he picks a verbal slug fest with...He said his piece; they are sayin theirs... That's how it works here with the Constitution and the Bill of Rights; which these narcissistic babies, and some of you here seem to think is a one way street... 

You need to think a bit and understand that right of "Freedom of Speech" in the Arena of Ideas extends to all citizens... Even the president... Think about that a bit... It includes, you, me, "them", even the Trumpster...

The lesson here is that there are lotsa folks, some of them here, that need a civics lesson... I aint nearly as afraid of Donald Trump takin away anyone's freedoms, as i am the mindless bunch of children and the damned Democrats and Establishment Republicans takin em away... Your mileage may vary...

Thus endeth the lesson...

Rantin leroy, the "Free Speech for All" zealot...

 

Edited September 27, 2017 by leroy

[superduty]

34 minutes ago, leroy said:

There has been enough platitudinous malarkey written here and other places to fertilize Texas... Some of us here (...me, at least...) think this whole thing is part of a bigger issue... That issue is the Post Modern World View that seeks to de-construct everything... period... That includes government (...especially, if it's a republican form of government...), the legal system (...no one should be oppressed, questioned, or detained by brutal police, even if he resists or does something dangerous and stupid; especially if he is "a person of color"...), The Capitalist System (...It's oppressive and some folks get more than others... that aint fair...), White People (...they are the original colonialist, expansionists, oppressors ya know... All indigenous peoples are greater than them...They had a paradise before the white man came...), and lastly; its about "... I don't like the duly elected president of this country and i'll politicize everything in an attempt to make him look bad and spit on everyone of you country bumpkins who voted for him..."; and i may even spark enough civil unrest to undo everything that the 2016 election brought to the USA... 

We can quibble about whether Trump should have started this conflagration; but it's irrelevant... He did... On a personal basis and from a political standpoint, I think it was a masterful move that allowed him to wrap himself in the flag, tap into the disgust of most working Americans, and call out and expose for all to see the over-privileged babys of the NFL, their enablers, and cheerleaders as what they really are... A bunch of Overbearing, Selfish, Anti-Law and Order, Self-Centered Anti-everything but what they think is appropriate on all levels nitwits... It's playing the "tribal game" that the demorats love so well on his terms... A helluva idea, i think... It paints these clowns for exactly what they are... 

There are those here who think that somehow their freedoms have been lessened as the result of this feud... I got news; they aint... Just because some official of government (...Trump..) says somethin ya don't like on a personal basis; it doesn't follow that it smacks of "suppression of political expression" and disbandment of "The Arena of Ideas"... Far from it... It doesn't follow that their speech, no matter how heinous and distasteful to some ears, has somehow nullified the Bill of Rights and the Constitution...

You enjoy the same right to "speak in the public forum" and be free of government oppression for it that you always did (...except for when the demorats were runnin things... Ask some of the right leaning groups about it that had to talk to the IRS...), no matter what Donald Trump says, and no matter who he picks a verbal slug fest with...He said his piece; they are sayin theirs... That's how it works here with the Constitution and the Bill of Rights; which these narcissistic babies, and some of you here seem to think is a one way street... 

You need to think a bit and understand that right of "Freedom of Speech" in the Arena of Ideas extends to all citizens... Even the president... Think about that a bit... It includes, you, me, "them", even the Trumpster...

The lesson here is that there are lotsa folks, some of them here, that need a civics lesson... I aint nearly as afraid of Donald Trump takin away anyone's freedoms, as i am the mindless bunch of children and the damned Democrats and Establishment Republicans takin em away... Your mileage may vary...

Thus endeth the lesson...

Rantin leroy, the "Free Speech for All" zealot...

 

Yep.

[frankmako]

a bunch of over paid losers.  good bye to the nfl. 

[analog_kidd]

To me, the anthem is a solemn time of reflection, where focus is upon the flag and the men who have stood behind that flag over the last 200+ years. What these players are doing is bringing attention to themselves, when all attention should on the flag. It's distracting, disrespectful and just the wrong time to do your protest. 

Besides, they way they are doing it is stupid. Most people, myself included, really have no idea what they are protesting. I know it's about cop brutality, blah, blah, blah, but what specifically? I don't see them continuing the protest afterwards, unless it is to bring more attention to themselves in the form of boasting that nobody can tell them what to do. But beyond that, I don't see any of them actively trying to make anything better off the field. Maybe I'm just not looking hard enough.

To me, the NFL and Team Owners are on the wrong side of this fight. NEVER go against patriotism. NEVER! You will never win. They should have nipped this in the bud a long time ago and took a stand. Even if that stand was to be neutral, by letting the players feel however they want on their own time, but not allow the disruption to the  game. Instead they are backing the players, and are looking just as unpatriotic.

The NFL, Owners and Players are all saying Trump is being divisive and trying to split America, but I say that it was them that have been divisive. They knew from the beginning that many Americans don't like this, but they did not care. It has been dividing us since CK did it last year, but "dammit, I'm a player and you gotta listen to me". Now Trump speaks his mind and the entire league loses their collective minds. He has just as much right to speak his mind as they do. Now, sometimes I wish he would go about things a bit differently... Calling them SOB's may not have been the best term to use, but you know what? It's what many of us think and say to like-minded friends. It's refreshing that he speaks his mind without political-correcting every sentence that he speaks. Sometimes its embarrassing, but it is refreshing. Besides, I see these players do and say way worse things than "SOB" every week. If they are that big of a P***Y that that is what offends them, perhaps they should try ballet instead of football.

Lastly, the NFL itself is being horribly hypocritical here. They have fined players for wanting to do their own form of protest or issue awareness because the method took place in the form of an addition to a uniform on the field. The player that wanted to wear pink in honor of his mother with breast cancer, the player with a mental illness that wanted to wear green shoes to bring attention to mental health day, the player that wanted to wear purple cleats to bring attention to domestic violence. All of them fined or told "No you can't do that". But now the NFL says the President can't tell THEM what to do? They put the kibosh on many good forms of issue awareness, but cop bashing while kneeling over the American flag is the one they get behind? Shameful!

[GeorgeandSugar]

You're doing exactly what so many others are doing and, frankly, it surprises me given what I have perceived as being your level of intelligence via so many of your other writings.
What I mean by "exactly what so many others are doing" is confusing, perhaps willfully, the difference between the assurance you have that the government won't forcibly deprive you of your right to free speech (the First Amendment) and the assumption that you are guaranteed the same protection from your employer and customers if you choose to exercise your freedom of speech on their time.
I agree that these morons should have the right to express themselves without fear of reprisal from our government.  That is guaranteed to them and is what you signed up to defend when you took your oath.  BUT when these players choose do so on their employer's (the NFL and the team owners) time, and on their customers' (the fans) time... then those other parties get a say in things.  The employer can choose to terminate their employment if their actions were counter to the company's ethics and values, and the customer can choose to do business elsewhere.
I'm pretty sure you know this and agree with it as well.  But for some reason, you chose to make the other connection.

Agreed. Frankly, I think these juvenile protests do little to serve their cause for the simple reason most rationale people see through this. Why? Because if Colin Kaepwrnick was really concerned with the plight of black men, the black community and police brutality against black men, then he, other players, owners and the league would have produced a PSA announcing concrete steps they are going to take to address these grievances. I bet if you look closer, likely few have done anything with their money to address this. Complain, whine to what end? Symbolic only? Only inspires me to turn off the No Fans League. Life long Cowboys fan and more recently a Steeler. No more. Gear will be discarded. I have better things to do with my time, namely my guns, shooting, reloading and a good book.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Wingshooter]

On 9/26/2017 at 5:58 AM, tnhawk said:

I have no idea what any player did.  I didn't watch.

I didn't even know they were playing

[partypilot1]

I think the people who died fighting for us, and our freedom, deserve the silence and respect during the anthem. They earned it. Anyone who tries to take that moment for themselves irritates me