3 teams sit out the anthem

[bersaguy]

This all began with Colin Kapperneck of the 49's taking a knee after a police officer shot Michael Brown in St Louis and was found officer was not guilty of murder. At the time Kapperneck was under a 2+ milion dollar contract and the 49's cut him loose at the end of the season and he is yet to be picked up by any other team. No one wants to hire a trouble maker regardles of their talents. Now whole teams have taken up his fight which I find totally out of line and will not ever watch another NFL game. I will also be sending them an email with my feelings. I will also be sending any emails I can find to the network sponsors that support the NFL. Kapperneck was adopted by a white couple and raised him, put him through college and gave him the opportunity of a lifetime and this is how he repays them!!!!

There is a rule in the NFL that any yeam not on the sidelines for the Anthem will be fined. The NFL has waived those fines for this past weekend. That just shows everyone how weak the NFL really is. I hope next week that 15% in lost ratings from last year is 50% next weekend............JMHO

[leroy]

The hell with the whole lot of 'em... As others have wisely opined; the best way to show your disdain for all this bunch of over-privileged trash is to not spend money with em or watch their games... I say:..."...Let's play the "Protest America and Capitalism Game"... The great majority of these clowns would be workin a real job if it weren't for the benevolence of "Rich White Capitalists" and the "Unfair Capitalist System" that has made these moronic children of lower estate millionaires... That is the irony of this whole debacle... These dip-willies are busy murderin and blasphemin the "Capitalist Golden Goose" that laid their personal golden egg... 

The same could be said of some of these "Anti-Capitalist" sons and daughters of privilege like Godell and others... Go get a real job chump... If ya don't like the "Climate of Oppression" here in America, go to North Korea or Iran...

bye bye loosers...

leroy... The Anti-NFL Zealot...

PS.. Here is a bit more erudite analysis of this sorry situation that ya may want ta take a look at... Very insightful, i think..http://thefederalist.com/2017/09/25/nfl-protests-are-the-dead-end-of-resistance-culture/#.WckhGGdv3VY.facebook

Edited September 25, 2017 by leroy

[bersaguy]

14 hours ago, Danger Rane said:

RLTW!

I think there were a few other players that stood outside the tunnels with their hand on their heart but he was the only one that is a decorated Veteran to do it..................JMHO

[MacGyver]

Mind you, I grew up in Atlanta in the 70's and 80's. The NFL - and what any team does or does not do has never really been on my radar screen. This won't increase or decrease my consumption of the game.

But, I do have some thoughts - filter them through the above lens and do what you want with them.

When you listen to Kaepernick speak on the matter, it's clear that he knew going in that his protest might cost him his job. And, he did it anyway. I can respect that.

A lot of the conversation that I've seen on social media seems to cast the debate in terms of ungrateful being a sort of new uppity.  I'm really wary here.

Regardless, I expect you'll see the league quit bringing teams out for the anthem before they continue to give these guys a platform. Do with that what you want, I guess.

To my own views, I'm church of Christ.  So, mind you civil religion makes me kind of nervous anyway. But, regardless I've worked to further this country's goals and ambitions all over the planet - so I've at least some skin in the game.

When I look at the flag - what I see represented is the same ideal as represented in the preamble of the Constitution - that 'we the people' continue to strive towards a 'more perfect union'. No one has a monopoly on what that looks like - and it's clear that we're not there yet. This American experiment is still just that.

I continue to believe that protest - while rarely a solution - creates room to talk about a solution.

I've come home bloodied and bruised, and teared up upon clearing the border as I've heard the words "welcome home" under the US flag. I pray others might feel that same sense of belonging that I too often take for granted.

[DaveTN]

Not all of the NFL is involved. I don’t think you will see any Dallas Cowboys taking a knee. The Titans should be ashamed and we should be ashamed of them.

[bersaguy]

43 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

Not all of the NFL is involved. I don’t think you will see any Dallas Cowboys taking a knee. The Titans should be ashamed and we should be ashamed of them.

I think Jerry Jones has already made his feelings know to his Cowboys so I don't think any of them will be taking a knee or not being on the side line for the Anthem unless they would like to be job hunting pretty quick and I would think they might have learned from Kaepernicks experience but then one never knows!!!.............JMHO

[peejman]

I have no issue with the players doing whatever. It's a "free" country, they're allowed to do such things regardless of my opinion of them or their form of protest. 

But I wonder what else they're doing?  Are they simply using their position/celebrity as a bully pulpit to "raise awareness", or are they actually doing something?

How many of them have contacted their municipal governments, stated they have items for the agenda at the next city/county government meeting and had open, informed discussion with their community leaders?

Have they held formal meetings and drafted action plans with their local police departments to address the sources of conflict from the law enforcement perspective?

Have they organized community "town hall" type meetings to address the sources of conflict from the public perspective?

Have they combined all the above groups to have meaningful discussions and work toward solutions to the issues?

Are they (they being individual players, whole teams, players unions, the NFL as a whole) utilizing their considerable resources (time, money, influence,...) to do anything?  

If so, fantastic!  Publicize it!  Tell the world, yell it at the top of your lungs! Showcase the great strides you've made. Create a model for communities all across the country to follow. 

 

Or are they just whining?

Edited September 25, 2017 by peejman

[Whisper]

As someone who is pro-freedom on just about everything, I'll just say that I believe the players have the right to express their opinions, including sitting or kneeling during the national anthem.  The team owners also have the right to fire their employees if they violate orders not to sit or kneel during the national anthem.  Everybody has the right not to patronize NFL games or any other form of entertainment if they find the entertainment or the performers offensive for whatever reason.

However, all of those listed might want to bear in mind that their opinions don't limit the rights of others, and that their actions may produce reactions from others.  If you sit during the anthem, as is your right, the team owner may bench you or fire you, as is his/her right.  Whatever actions the team owners take or don't take may produce positive or negative responses from prospective ticket purchasers, who have the right to spend their money as they see fit.  

Respect the rights of others the same way you want them to respect yours, and whine less.  It's a good guideline for most situations.

My opinion, and worth every cent you paid for it.

Cheers,

Whisper

Edited September 25, 2017 by Whisper
Spelling.

[Capbyrd]

Where was this outrage before Kap took a knee?  

I just searched back through all of the threads and couldn't find a single one where one of you complained about the players dancing with their hands inside their pads or doing stretches or warm ups during the anthem instead of standing how you think they should?  How far does your patriotism go?  Am I supposed to be standing with my hand on my heart when I watch it on tv?  

 

This whole thing is stupid.  All sides of it.  


Also, I'm glad y'all are choosing to not support the NFL anymore, if that's what you feel is necessary.  But I urge you to remember that there are thousands of people, if not tens of thousands that are going to feel this well.  People that work at TV stations behind the scenes making modest salaries.  People that work at the stadiums will feel this.  People that work for the teams in front offices, etc.   There are tons of people, with no control over these protests, that will feel your boycotts long before you affect the bottom line of the millionaire players or billionaire owners.  

 

 

And I have to throw this in.  WHY do we have the anthem at the beginning of every sporting event?  This really doesn't make sense.  If we are thanking vets or ancestors for our freedoms to enjoy something pointless, why don't we have the anthem before every movie at the theater or concert?  I don't understand. 

[Omega]

3 minutes ago, Capbyrd said:

Where was this outrage before Kap took a knee?  

I just searched back through all of the threads and couldn't find a single one where one of you complained about the players dancing with their hands inside their pads or doing stretches or warm ups during the anthem instead of standing how you think they should?  How far does your patriotism go?  Am I supposed to be standing with my hand on my heart when I watch it on tv?  

 

This whole thing is stupid.  All sides of it.  


Also, I'm glad y'all are choosing to not support the NFL anymore, if that's what you feel is necessary.  But I urge you to remember that there are thousands of people, if not tens of thousands that are going to feel this well.  People that work at TV stations behind the scenes making modest salaries.  People that work at the stadiums will feel this.  People that work for the teams in front offices, etc.   There are tons of people, with no control over these protests, that will feel your boycotts long before you affect the bottom line of the millionaire players or billionaire owners.  

 

 

And I have to throw this in.  WHY do we have the anthem at the beginning of every sporting event?  This really doesn't make sense.  If we are thanking vets or ancestors for our freedoms to enjoy something pointless, why don't we have the anthem before every movie at the theater or concert?  I don't understand. 

They play the anthem in military theaters, and yes we stand for it.  As to not complaining about the goof offs, there is a big difference between being lackadaisical and being totally disrespectful. 

[Capbyrd]

9 minutes ago, Omega said:

They play the anthem in military theaters, and yes we stand for it.  As to not complaining about the goof offs, there is a big difference between being lackadaisical and being totally disrespectful. 

It's not meant as disrespect.  They have a problem with something that is happening in our country, and are trying to raise awareness.  Kap took a knee in order to get people to ask the question, so he could make a point.  It was a well thought out method of raising awareness.  

What is disrespectful is allowing police officers to kill someone because they wanted to buy a little weed, or they didn't pay a city tax on a single cigarette.  That's disrespectful. Its disrespectful that an officer can shoot a man for getting out his wallet after telling him to get out his wallet.  That's disrespectful. 

You even have a good number of veterans, going back to WWII supporting these athletes.  Those old guys didn't even choose to serve.  They were drafted to die and yet they don't feel disrespected.  

This is much ado about nothing that will continue to divide us.  We can't even say the pledge right now because it isn't true.  "...one nation, indivisible, with justice and liberty for all."  That's a blatant lie.  

[Oh Shoot]

The Sunday team reactions were absolutely directly in response to Trump's invective on Friday from 'Bama.  Just more from the most divisive president since the Civil War, which is saying a lot after 8 years of BHO.

I know most here agree with Trump on the issue, but that's still no excuse for yet another typically tactless and boorish approach that can only foster rancor.

- OS

Edited September 25, 2017 by Oh Shoot

[n0rlf]

7 minutes ago, Capbyrd said:

It's not meant as disrespect.  They have a problem with something that is happening in our country, and are trying to raise awareness.  Kap took a knee in order to get people to ask the question, so he could make a point.  It was a well thought out method of raising awareness.  

What is disrespectful is allowing police officers to kill someone because they wanted to buy a little weed, or they didn't pay a city tax on a single cigarette.  That's disrespectful. Its disrespectful that an officer can shoot a man for getting out his wallet after telling him to get out his wallet.  That's disrespectful. 

You even have a good number of veterans, going back to WWII supporting these athletes.  Those old guys didn't even choose to serve.  They were drafted to die and yet they don't feel disrespected.  

This is much ado about nothing that will continue to divide us.  We can't even say the pledge right now because it isn't true.  "...one nation, indivisible, with justice and liberty for all."  That's a blatant lie.  

OK, bigger picture time. Why is this all of a sudden an issue you asked? Well, because we have people protesting criminals and thugs being shot and killed by police. Was Michael Brown an innocent man that was gunned down in cold blood? Nope. Are there some cases that cops are guilty? Of course. 

 

The big thing is that during the election the people of the United States basically said in a loud voice screw the regular system we want change! So they elected Donald Trump, an outsider to Washington and the system. The left hates him because it ruined the planned coronation of their long awaited Queen Hillary R Clinton. 

So since the election the left has been stirring the populace of liberals up to protest against the president. OK, voice your opinions by all means! That is your right! I served to protect that right for you! What I did not serve for is for the left to push the racism and hat they truly have in their hearts. It is beyond belieef that some folks truly think the liberals are speaking truthfully about anything. They are trying hard to divide this country. They blame Trump for everything and push their narative of divisiveness while disguising it as the high road thinking. BS! They keep saying DT is causing all of the hate and strife. Really, show me where he has done that in facts rather than in their rhetoric. 

The left is spewing forth more hate and discontent than any other gorup I can remember. Ever! But it is not PC to call them that. Well the PC days are about over as America has had enough of the PC every gets trophy BS. 

Short story is people tend to be offended by anything and it is being used as a crutch for the last generations that were not raised worth a damn! Not PC and surely not what they want to hear. But true none the less. We have parents stating their child should not have been harmed as they were just breaking and entering to get stuff to sell for school. We had a woman state on TV "He didn't do anything wrong! Just shot a cop is all!" WTF? Did i really just hear that? 

So I tend to go along with the idea that it is time we realize the left leaning liberals are trying very hard to play the race and gender and whatever cards to further their ideology. It is not true but they do not care. I think they doth protest too much because they know what they are saying is BS and they are hoping their distraction techniques keep people from seeing the truth of the matter in how thugs are destroying the Cities. You do not see that BS out in the Countrry areas. Too many of the gansta wannabes would wind up as gator food. Sad but true. They made the environment they are in but want to blame everyone else for their woes. 

 

America has now had enough and is calling it for what it is and that scares the left so bad they are trying anything now to distract folks.

[n0rlf]

13 minutes ago, Oh Shoot said:

The Sunday team reactions were absolutely directly in response to Trump's invective on Friday from 'Bama.  Just more from the most divisive president since the Civil War, which is saying a lot after 8 years of BHO.

I know most here agree with Trump on the issue, but that's still no excuse for yet another typically tactless and boorish approach that can only foster rancor.

- OS

Somes tactless and boorish approach is others non-PC reality! Folks have had enough. Learn that now or pay for your ignorance later people! They protest too much that it is offensive. BS, as it is nothing more than a distraction from how bad it has truly gotten.

 

[Omega]

1 hour ago, Oh Shoot said:

The Sunday team reactions were absolutely directly in response to Trump's invective on Friday from 'Bama.  Just more from the most divisive president since the Civil War, which is saying a lot after 8 years of BHO.

I know most here agree with Trump on the issue, but that's still no excuse for yet another typically tactless and boorish approach that can only foster rancor.

- OS

Where have you been?

"If I had a son..."

[btq96r]

8 hours ago, TGO David said:

What I mean by "exactly what so many others are doing" is confusing, perhaps willfully, the difference between the assurance you have that the government won't forcibly deprive you of your right to free speech (the First Amendment) and the assumption that you are guaranteed the same protection from your employer and customers if you choose to exercise your freedom of speech on their time.

The calculus on this changed on Friday night, when President Trump, at a podium with the seal of his office, made the comments he did.  Now, I get that he was at a campaign event, and that he doesn't have the unilateral authority to fix the NFL to his wants (though he surely wishes he did I'm sure).  That said, for a man who took an oath to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution to argue with all the influence of his office the way he did was quite disheartening to me, even for this President.

Also, my comment was as much in response to a perceived insult to those who served.  I know I speak only for myself, but I have no issues as I can see how they are using the attention of the anthem as a amplifier for the message versus an insult of my service. 

 

8 hours ago, TGO David said:

I agree that these morons should have the right to express themselves without fear of reprisal from our government.  That is guaranteed to them and is what you signed up to defend when you took your oath.  BUT when these players choose do so on their employer's (the NFL and the team owners) time, and on their customers' (the fans) time... then those other parties get a say in things.  The employer can choose to terminate their employment if their actions were counter to the company's ethics and values, and the customer can choose to do business elsewhere.

I'm actually iffy on the employers authority in this case as the NFL isn't a traditional workplace and subject to the agreements between the league and the players union, but  it's clear that both the NFL offices and a great many teams (the most notable exception being the Cowboys and Jerry Jones) are okay with it for now.  So, I'm not seeing your point on employment rights since aside from Kapernick not being hired by teams that could clearly use his talents, nobody has been fired for their protesting.

In contrast, the NBA took efforts to clean up their image a while back, putting in place a dress code for team travel to and from an arena, and mandating players cease warm-up activities and stand respectfully for the national anthem.  The players union accepted it.  How much that is enforced or even changed in light of what's happening is in the air.

 

[Omega]

1 hour ago, Capbyrd said:

It's not meant as disrespect.  They have a problem with something that is happening in our country, and are trying to raise awareness.  Kap took a knee in order to get people to ask the question, so he could make a point.  It was a well thought out method of raising awareness.  

What is disrespectful is allowing police officers to kill someone because they wanted to buy a little weed, or they didn't pay a city tax on a single cigarette.  That's disrespectful. Its disrespectful that an officer can shoot a man for getting out his wallet after telling him to get out his wallet.  That's disrespectful. 

You even have a good number of veterans, going back to WWII supporting these athletes.  Those old guys didn't even choose to serve.  They were drafted to die and yet they don't feel disrespected.  

This is much ado about nothing that will continue to divide us.  We can't even say the pledge right now because it isn't true.  "...one nation, indivisible, with justice and liberty for all."  That's a blatant lie.  

I wasn't drafted, but I do feel they are being disrespectful toward that which I swore to defend.

[aknifemaker]

I was raised to respect this country, not to s**t on it like these morons are doing, being all political making 20 million a year not bad.

Yes they have a right to voice their opinions but that is the wrong way.

Before this all started stations used to break for commercials when the anthem was played, now its a top ratings getter no doubt.

Love and Respect

[btq96r]

3 hours ago, peejman said:

But I wonder what else they're doing?  Are they simply using their position/celebrity as a bully pulpit to "raise awareness", or are they actually doing something?

I don't know about every player who took a knee or raised a fist on Sunday, but Colin Kapernick as put his money where his knee is at least, being named the Week 1 Community MVP even as a free agent.  He's been donating to various causes on the way to a total of a pledged million...not an insignificant amount when you consider he may never see another NFL contract again.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/09/15/colin-kaepernick-nflpa-charity-community-mvp

[Oh Shoot]

7 minutes ago, Omega said:

Where have you been?

Special assignment under Robert Mueller.

- OS

[Omega]

Just now, Oh Shoot said:

Special assignment under Robert Mueller.

- OS

Figures.

[btq96r]

3 minutes ago, aknifemaker said:

Before this all started stations used to break for commercials when the anthem was played, now its a top ratings getter no doubt.

For football at least, showing the anthem on TV has been a normal thing.  Maybe that goes hand in glove with how the DoD admitted they were paying the NFL for "tributes to the troops" as a recruiting tool, but showing the anthem on NFL broadcasts isn't a new ratings check block.

[Omega]

17 minutes ago, btq96r said:

For football at least, showing the anthem on TV has been a normal thing.  Maybe that goes hand in glove with how the DoD admitted they were paying the NFL for "tributes to the troops" as a recruiting tool, but showing the anthem on NFL broadcasts isn't a new ratings check block.

I think he means showing the disrespect being a ratings thing.  Otherwise why even point the camera in their direction.

[deerslayer]

7 hours ago, MacGyver said:

 

When you listen to Kaepernick speak on the matter, it's clear that he knew going in that his protest might cost him his job. And, he did it anyway. I can respect that.

 

Mmmmmmmaybe if he had a normal job and risked losing his car, home, etc...

[bersaguy]

I have been posting to this and reading all the posts and over the last two hours I have watched all the news networks that carried what Trump had to say in Alabama Friday night. I did vote for Trump and would vote for him again over Hillary Clinton. Now with that said. I have the utmost respect for this great country and I fought for it and all it stands for in our Constitution and our Flag is a symbol of that Constitution. The National Anthem is applied and a part of this Country's Legacy and has been around a lot longer than I have and will be long after I am gone. Now with that all said, after listening to what President Turmp said on Friday Night as much as I honor the office he holds I cannot accept his choice of words he used when calling all of the football players a name that is so very negative not only to the players but towards their Mothers as well. I find myself in a catch 22 here as I was siding with the office without knowing the full story.  I know that he has never been in politics and he is very raw at times but that is still not an excuse for calling anyone out of their name. I never walked away if anyone called me out of my name if reference to my Mother and to this day I still won't.

I can now clearly see both sides to this and even though I have never thought to wrong cannot make a right in this instance I do believe the players maybe more right than the President. I don't believe that they all were protesting for same reason and Colin Kaepernick is but I do believe they did have a good reason for their actions. I won't be burning my football jerseys in protest because I don't own any. I just hope and pray that our country can come together in Unity again and be the great country I grew up in and fought for....................JMHO