Wallstreet Insiders Stock up on Gold, Guns, etc.

[creeky]

Saw this today. Thought it was pretty interesting.

What stands out to me is that when the working guy buys some extra food, buys a home defense shotgun, and starts keeping more money at home so he would have better access he's pretty much looked at by the media as an alarmist, survivalist, or a paranoid nut job.

But when a guy like Barton Biggs (From Morgan Stanley) starts writing about the possibility of collapse and wall street types start making plans all of a sudden it is different! LOL!!!

[Link]

The New Paranoia: Hedge-Funders Are Bullish on Gold, Guns, and Inflatable Lifeboats

By Timothy Sohn Published Jan 11, 2009

During the final months of 2008, as the financial markets imploded, talk on trading desks turned to food and water stockpiles, generators, guns, and high-speed inflatable boats. “The system really was about six hours from failing,†says Gene Lange, a manager at a midtown hedge fund, referring to the week in September when Lehman went bust and AIG had to be bailed out. “When you think about how close we were to the precipice, I don’t think it necessarily makes a guy crazy to prepare for the potential worst-case scenario.â€

Preparations, in Lange’s case, include a storeroom in his basement in New Jersey stacked high with enough food, water, diapers, and other necessities to last his family six months; a biometric safe to hold his guns; and a 1985 ex-military Chevy K5 Blazer that runs on diesel and is currently being retrofitted for off-road travel. He has also entertained the idea of putting an inflatable speedboat in a storage unit on the West Side, so he could get off the island quickly, and is currently considering purchasing a remote farm where he could hunker down. “If there’s a financial-system breakdown, it could take a year to reset the system, and in that time, what’s going to happen?†asks Lange. If New York turns into a scene out of I Am Legend, he wants to be ready.

He’s not the only one. In his book Wealth, War, published last year, former Morgan Stanley chief global strategist Barton Biggs advised people to prepare for the possibility of a total breakdown of civil society. A senior analyst whose reports are read at hedge funds all over the city wrote just before Christmas that some of his clients are “so bearish they’ve purchased firearms and safes and are stocking their pantries with soups and canned foods.†This fear is very much reflected in the market—prices of corporate bonds have been so beaten down at various points that they suggest a higher default rate than during the Great Depression.

Meanwhile, while the overall gold market has fluctuated, the premium for quarter-ounce gold coins—meaning the difference between the price for gold you can hold in your hand and that for “paper gold,†such as exchange-traded funds—rose to an all-time high of 20 percent. “Gold is transportable, it’s 100 percent liquid, and it’s perfectly divisible in the context of ounces, bars, or coins,†says the head of a California research firm who keeps a supply of it, along with food, water, and guns, on hand. “And most important, there’s no counterpartyâ€â€”i.e., it’s an investment beholden to no one, and perhaps one of the few assets that will retain value if the financial system collapses.

While it may look like these Wall Streeters are betting on such a collapse, their embrace of survivalism is an outgrowth of their professional habits of mind: Having observed the economy’s shaky high-wire act from their ringside seats, they are trying to manage their risk and “hedge†against a potential fall. “It’s like insurance,†says an investor who has stockpiled MREs and a hand-cranked radio. “And by the time you need it, it’s way too late.†Leave it for others to weep for the collapse of the social order. These guys would prefer to be in a high-speed boat or ex-military vehicle, heading off toward their fully provisioned compounds in pursuit of the ultimate goal: to win the chaos.

[ZenDog]

Having extra food, ammo, gold, first aid stuff, and water is about as paranoid as having fire extinguishers, health insurance, and an umbrella in your car.

[Magiccarpetrides]

hahaha....never hurts to be prepared. I have some "odd-ball" items myself.

[Guest Astra900]

I don't mind being called a nut job. The people doing the name calling will be the ones trying to tread water after the ark door is shut.

[creeky]

I just think it is interesting that the people that were closest to the "Economic Meltdown" were taking it seriously enough to start making plans for a collapse.

That seems pretty telling in it's self.

[ZenDog]

One of the smartest Big Oil guys, Matt Simmons, is developing a self-sufficient farm for himself and his family in in New England- doesn't use any fossil fuels and it is going to be able to be off the power grid. He used to be based in Houston, he was an adviser to Bush-Cheney regarding energy policy.

Thinks the future will be very different due to decreasing availability of fossil fuels, which will then destabilize world markets and distribution systems.

It was :tinfoil:a few years back; now they call it 'smart'.

[Punisher84]

Funny how things change ain't it?

[Magiccarpetrides]

As long as you dont "sell the farm" to finance your preparedness or spend so much your broke before/if a collapse occurs its ok. Instead of spending discretionary income on bs pointing it towards "survival items" is not a bad idea imho.

[Guest Astra900]

Also it's foolish to spend a lot of $$$ on crap you may never use, even when the hits the fan. Tents and sleeping bags, a dozen coleman lanterns, the list goes on forever. Those things have their place and I have my share of those too, but people should try to be a little more simplistic. Like things you use everyday. Canned foods and toilet paper, bottled water, ect.

Stock up on things you WILL use even if the worst doesn't happen. Ammo is okay, you are gonna go to the range, plus it never goes down in value.

If you have the space, learn to garden. Even a small garden will save you several dollars in the summer.

[Magiccarpetrides]

haha...dont forget the TP....anyone that has ever used a leaf knows that lesson ;-D Can you imagine what the value on TP would be just 1 year after a global collapse lol.

[Guest dkirby]

I think I'll go to Sam's Club and buy a few pallets of TP. I'll tell the wife it's a "retirement investment"

[creeky]

I bet two ply quilted will be worth it's weight in GOLD!

[Guest Revelator]

A carton or two of smokes. They'd be worth a lot in a breakdown/collapse situation. Whiskey, too. Chocolate, things like that. These are some of the items I've got on my list of things to add to the stockpile. Once I get set with the basic necessities, I'll move to luxury and comfort items like these.

[Guest Astra900]

+1 on booze. You can get a big plastic bottle of Skol vodka for CHEAP$$$$

It CANNOT go bad, use it ease the pain:cool: of the coming famine, trade for other goods, clean a carburetor, disinfect a cut, whatever!

[Guest SUNTZU]

[Guest Astra900]

We just got back from eating mexican food, and that picture is looking about like what I need:D

[NuTcAsE]

I don't mind being called a nut job. The people doing the name calling will be the ones trying to tread water after the ark door is shut.

I'm pretty happy with it myself

Also it's foolish to spend a lot of $$$ on crap you may never use, even when the hits the fan. Tents and sleeping bags, a dozen coleman lanterns, the list goes on forever. Those things have their place and I have my share of those too, but people should try to be a little more simplistic. Like things you use everyday. Canned foods and toilet paper, bottled water, ect.

Stock up on things you WILL use even if the worst doesn't happen. Ammo is okay, you are gonna go to the range, plus it never goes down in value.

If you have the space, learn to garden. Even a small garden will save you several dollars in the summer.

A carton or two of smokes. They'd be worth a lot in a breakdown/collapse situation. Whiskey, too. Chocolate, things like that. These are some of the items I've got on my list of things to add to the stockpile. Once I get set with the basic necessities, I'll move to luxury and comfort items like these.

And an extra pair or two of good socks & shoes/boots! If you got kids remember to allow for growin in a couple pair.

[towerclimber37]

Its funny to me that the folks that are closest to the meltdown (I.E. The SOB's that were CAUSING the meltdown by making irrational decisions about our finances and stealing our money) are the ones that are prepping for survival.

In reality they MAY live to see it..may not. There are so many things that could go wrong it's Hob's choice when something like that happens.

[Guest mark_justmark]

Ya think they'd want gun control in this mess?

“Gold is transportable, it’s 100 percent liquid, and it’s perfectly divisible in the context of ounces, bars, or coins,†says the head of a California research firm who keeps a supply of it, along with food, water, and guns, on hand. “And most important, there’s no counterpartyâ€â€”i.e., it’s an investment beholden to no one, and perhaps one of the few assets that will retain value if the financial system collapses.

"First moral: if you are going to buy gold, you have to buy a shotgun too. Under precisely those conditions where gold will finally pay for itself, it will be far too dangerous for an unarmed person to carry gold. If you truly believe that you need to own gold, then it follows directly that you need to own a shotgun too. Bars on the windows and a Doberman wouldn't hurt either."

"Ah," you think, "it's the personal physical possession of gold that causes the problem. Come to think of it, even short of societal collapse, there's enough crime about that I wouldn't be comfortable storing thousands of dollars of gold in my home, anyway."

http://lsb.scu.edu/~emcquarrie/goldadv.htm

[poak]

Maybe I missing something, but I don't understand the emphasis on gold...

It would seem to me that food items, and actual necessities, hell even booze and smokes would be worth more than precious metals. I would think metals like copper, steel, and aluminum would be worth more than gold at that point...

[Guest Revelator]

Maybe I missing something, but I don't understand the emphasis on gold...

It would seem to me that food items, and actual necessities, hell even booze and smokes would be worth more than precious metals. I would think metals like copper, steel, and aluminum would be worth more than gold at that point...

I agree. I guess, though, it depends on the extent and type of the disaster. If it's mainly an economic collapse like Germany in the 1930's, I'd think gold would be good to have. But if it's a total breakdown, yeah, it'd be a lot like paper money.

[Guest bigsack]

im thinking the logic for gold in a total break down is this... were going to have stupid people after the breakdown just like we do now. and those stupid people may have something we want/need, so use gold as a monetary exchange for said items. hey what do they know?

[Guest Astra900]

WTSHTF, don't come to me w/ gold and silver. Lead has much more value.

Heck even paper money is worth more than gold in a total break down, paper money makes kindling, you can wad a muzzleloader with it, wipe your ars, come on, if it was a total break down, who wouldn't get a kick out of using a few C notes for TP???

[shirtshirt]

*captain obvious* Gold has remained a valued item through out time. Any collapse would eventually be followed by rebuilding. Knowing this, gold would be an accepted form of payment for any item.

I would gladly trade all the TP I have for gold in a time of crisis...or any time for that matter....and welcome the opportunity to trade 8 rolls of charmin for gold. Then I'd be able to put some of those t-shirts I never wear to good use.

[Sheepdog]

Just a few quick observations, here.

First of all, gold, if you can afford it, is a good place to put your money for safekeeping. While the value of gold might decrease, it will never be worth zero--which is something that can't be said for stocks, bonds or paper money. Gold is NOT a good thing to acquire for the purposes of barter, however, unless you plan to be buying big ticket items after TSHTF. Why not? Because an ounce of pure gold is over $800 right now...and how are you going to get change if you use a Krugerrand to buy $25 worth of groceries?

I'd say that for the purposes of trade, silver will be a better and more common form of currency.

Lead? Well, what do you mean by "lead"? Are you talking about loaded ammunition? Think about it. Would you be willing to trust any ammo that you're given by a stranger? How would you know who manufactured it? Was it handloaded? Might it have too much powder? Or more likely, would it have any powder in it at all? Are you sure the primers are good? Or the brass hasn't been loaded, trimmed, or stretched too many times to be safe? Sorry, but if I didn't load it, with components from a trusted source, I'm not using it, nor taking it as payment.

Or do you mean components? Just the bullets. Well, in a SHTF scenario, let's double the price of lead (which, if you've got lead, is pretty optimistic). $10 worth of lead .45 bullets would weigh almost a pound and a half. If we double the price of food, then you're going to have to carry around 4 pounds of lead to pay for a pizza. Triple the price of gas, and you're needing over 10 pounds of it to fill an average tank. Who is seriously going to carry that much weight around?

And finally, my favorite, toilet paper. Personally, I think that TP is one of the most useless things in a survival larder. If you've never lived outside the US, it's probably a completely alien concept to actually wash your ass. Yep, a small bucket of water in one hand, and some gentle scrubbing action with the other, and you're far cleaner than you could ever get by wiping. And once you get past the ick factor, it's a lot more comfortable, too--less likely to cause or aggravate a case of hemorrhoids, which is going to be something you'll want to avoid at all costs when medical care is spotty. Money and storage space devoted to TP could be utilized so much better for things like extra food or medical supplies.