Dust off a Darwin Award

[tacops]

So it appears that another brain child decided it would be a good idea to point a reported "toy" gun at Roane County Deputies as they were dealing with a domestic disturbance a little bit ago.  I saw med flight and first responders and assumed it was another atv or vehicle accident.  Apparently it didn't work out so well for the brainiac.  If what I am hearing so far is accurate I feel for the LEOs involved.

[A.J. Holst]

I saw the interview with the WA sheriff brilliantly stating, "guns haven't changed, society has," and called out those who glorify violence using guns.

It's just a toy...how do I know, especially in an adrenaline charged environment?

Aren't all guns always loaded? Point you gun at things you wish to destroy? Know your target, which would be me?

[tacops]

To clarify, this incident did not involve a child, my term "brain child" may have been confusing.  The individual was reportedly 47 years old.  I use that term tongue in cheek for those that do stupid things.  Granted, all the facts are not in, the investigation is of course in it's preliminary stages and rumors will fly.  Time will tell the details, in the mean time, I will polish the award in case it is warranted.  If not, I'm sure it won't take long for a deserving recipient to rise to the occasion.

[bersaguy]

I know this one has nothing to do directly but I do know about this shooting and I knew the man killed personally. Parts of the story are true and parts of them not so much. This took place back in 2012 and I never thought he would do this but he told me years earlier in early 80's that he was going out of the world this way and he did.

http://wkrn.com/2012/04/02/tbi-probing-fatal-police-shooting-of-man-with-gun/

[Garufa]

5 minutes ago, bersaguy said:

I know this one has nothing to do directly but I do know about this shooting and I knew the man killed personally. Parts of the story are true and parts of them not so much. This took place back in 2012 and I never thought he would do this but he told me years earlier in early 80's that he was going out of the world this way and he did.

http://wkrn.com/2012/04/02/tbi-probing-fatal-police-shooting-of-man-with-gun/

Suicide by cop?

[DWARREN123]

Point a firearm at some one and see what happens!

[bersaguy]

14 hours ago, Garufa said:

Suicide by cop?

Yea, I knew Ray and his whole family. He and his brother Fey owned a Wrecker Service and did all my towing for my shop all back in the 80's. They were also zoned in that area to do all of the police towing for city, county and THP on any wrecks in their zone. The 2 brothers were like fire and ice but they got along great. Ray in his younger days got in trouble alot with the law, nothing big, most being drunk related stuff and Fey never once got in any trouble. Ray quit his drinking when his daughter was born and never touched another drop. That was when they opened up their wrecker Service together. He told me one time while they were at my shop drinking coffee that he heard about a guy on the news that got himself killed in a Suicide By Cop story and he made the statement that if it ever became necessary for him to leave this world that is how he is going out. I didn't think he was serious and told him to just chill. I said you ain't going no where.

When I quit operating my business due to my health and turned it over to my son I left Kingston Springs and moved on with my life and it was only after my son called me right after it happened to tell that Ray got shot and killed by the police in his yard that Ray had Terminal Cancer. I then remembered what he had told me back years earlier about the way he was leaving the world. What they didn't say in the news or in the investigation was what kind of gun Ray had. It was an old single barrel 4.10 and when they didn't shoot at him the first time he had to go back in the house and get another shell. Another thing that was not mentioned in the investigation was the fact that Ray had cut the tips off the shells and dumped the lead BB's in an ashtray and then loaded the gun again. The police found the BB's while investigating and when they checked the shell in the gun it was also empty of lead. He didn't want to hurt anyone, he just wanted the pain to go away and it did.

I often wonder just how many times things like this happen that the entire story never gets out. It would be hard to hide something like that in a town like Kingston Springs where most of the folks all know each other that grew up all their lives there. They were able to keep that one quiet but folks found out later on anyway but it was old news by then.............................

[tacops]

A very sad situation for Ray who at the time may have felt that was his best alternative to end his pain and suffering.  Unfortunately the LEOs he used as his tool have to now carry that.  Sad all the way around.

[bersaguy]

33 minutes ago, tacops said:

A very sad situation for Ray who at the time may have felt that was his best alternative to end his pain and suffering.  Unfortunately the LEOs he used as his tool have to now carry that.  Sad all the way around.

Well, it can be looked at in several ways. In one sense it was a burden for the officer and a relief for Ray.  What conclusion was drawn the officer was completely legal in his defense of himself and his fellow officers and not knowing Rays intent. I completely exonerate the officer for any wrong doing. As for why it happened was all on Rays shoulders. As for how the daughter tried to say they could have prevented it would have just ment that ray would have suffered longer which to me would have been more cruel than what took place. I know it was not somethng that the daughter and Grand daughter should have seen but they should have not put any blame on the officers for doing their job. It was all Rays decision for his actions. From what I learned later was that the officer did feel remorse but his fellow officers supported his actions and helped him get through it. A couple of them that knew Ray that were not there even told him that they would have shot him even though he was a friend of theirs. I think most of the LEO's that new Ray knew exactly what he did. .............JMHO

[DWARREN123]

Really bad for all but damn to put family and the officers thru this is harsh.

Edited September 17, 2017 by DWARREN123

[Obiwan]

Yeah, my first thought was if you want to leave this world, stick a shotgun barrel into your own mouth and be done with it. Don't involve others.

However, in that case there would probably be no life-insurance payout. I wonder if the suicide-by-cop route would allow for any life-insurance payments to the family/beneficiaries. Not that it justifies involving officers, but it might explain this phenomenon.

[bersaguy]

1 hour ago, Obiwan said:

Yeah, my first thought was if you want to leave this world, stick a shotgun barrel into your own mouth and be done with it. Don't involve others.

However, in that case there would probably be no life-insurance payout. I wonder if the suicide-by-cop route would allow for any life-insurance payments to the family/beneficiaries. Not that it justifies involving officers, but it might explain this phenomenon.

I don't really know if insurance would cover Suicide by Cop but first the insurance company would have to prove that is what it was and I don't really believe they could.........JMHO

[TripleGGG]

5 hours ago, Obiwan said:

Yeah, my first thought was if you want to leave this world, stick a shotgun barrel into your own mouth and be done with it. Don't involve others.

However, in that case there would probably be no life-insurance payout. I wonder if the suicide-by-cop route would allow for any life-insurance payments to the family/beneficiaries. Not that it justifies involving officers, but it might explain this phenomenon.

Most life insurance policies  (as well as other type insurance policies) have a "cannot be committing a crime" clause.

[bersaguy]

11 hours ago, TripleGGG said:

Most life insurance policies  (as well as other type insurance policies) have a "cannot be committing a crime" clause.

You have raised a good point GGG. They consider comitting Suicide is against the law. If a person commits suicide does any one honestly think that person gives a damn about it being illegal? I think that is really one of the stupid laws on the books. If they attempt to comit suicide but try and don't succeed then that would be a crime of attempted murder I would think but then if a person does try that they would be considered mentally unstable and a lawyer would file a request to the courts on that. I honestly don't believe there can be a true law to address Suicide...............JMHO

[Obiwan]

I think GGG is referring to shooting at police officers being a crime that invalidates the life insurance policy. Based on casual googling, it seems that most insurance companies will actually pay out after a suicide, but only after the policy has been in effect for a while (with 2 years being referenced the most). This was put in place to discourage desperate people from obtaining a policy and then taking their own life to get their family out of financial problems. So it seems if you get a policy, and the day after it is active you kill yourself, your beneficiaries will get nothing. If your policy is of certain age (using those 2 years as example), and you kill yourself, the policy will pay out. But if you play suicide-by-cop, that action being considered a crime, the policy won't pay out.

Which means there's no benefit of suicide-by-cop. It takes guts to take your own life. But it also takes guts to shoot at others with the expectation to be shot and killed in return. Those being equal, and there being no benefit of the suicide-by-cop route, I just can't comprehend why people would take that route. Then again, crazy people do crazy stuff I guess.

[bersaguy]

13 hours ago, Obiwan said:

I think GGG is referring to shooting at police officers being a crime that invalidates the life insurance policy. Based on casual googling, it seems that most insurance companies will actually pay out after a suicide, but only after the policy has been in effect for a while (with 2 years being referenced the most). This was put in place to discourage desperate people from obtaining a policy and then taking their own life to get their family out of financial problems. So it seems if you get a policy, and the day after it is active you kill yourself, your beneficiaries will get nothing. If your policy is of certain age (using those 2 years as example), and you kill yourself, the policy will pay out. But if you play suicide-by-cop, that action being considered a crime, the policy won't pay out.

Which means there's no benefit of suicide-by-cop. It takes guts to take your own life. But it also takes guts to shoot at others with the expectation to be shot and killed in return. Those being equal, and there being no benefit of the suicide-by-cop route, I just can't comprehend why people would take that route. Then again, crazy people do crazy stuff I guess.

"Then again, crazy people do crazy stuff I guess". Yes they do for sure. I wanted to get life insurance on myself some years back and after investigating most of the Insurance Companies and reading to horror stories of families that the insurance companies screwed over and never paid the claims on I decided to be cremated and I now have my final expenses paid for and all my family has to do is collect my urn of ashes if they want to. I prepaid my arrangements. As far as commiting suicide, that is not for me. I love myself to much and fought all my life to remain alive so ain't gonna hurt my self on purpose now.................