Scope installation

[Chucktshoes]

1 hour ago, mikegideon said:

I have used my fat wrench a lot. Not just for optics. Pic, keymod, mlock accessories. 

I'm gonna grab it with a vise (as I don't have one and that needs to change) and the reticle leveling kit. All told, about $180 worth of tools that I really ought to have. 

[mikegideon]

1 hour ago, Chucktshoes said:

I'm gonna grab it with a vise (as I don't have one and that needs to change) and the reticle leveling kit. All told, about $180 worth of tools that I really ought to have. 

The leveling kit is included in the scope mounting kit above. When I look back, I would have been money ahead buying the whole kit at once. FWIW, I like the Tipton vice the best between it and the Lyman. I have both

[Omega]

1 hour ago, mikegideon said:

The leveling kit is included in the scope mounting kit above. When I look back, I would have been money ahead buying the whole kit at once. FWIW, I like the Tipton vice the best between it and the Lyman. I have both

Same here, I have all the peripherals except some of the lapping parts.  At this point, it will probably be cheaper to just purchase the kit and sell the extra parts.

[Slappy]

On 8/22/2017 at 8:53 PM, Omega said:

Same here, I have all the peripherals except some of the lapping parts.  At this point, it will probably be cheaper to just purchase the kit and sell the extra parts.

Someone with more experience chime in here.....but some of the rings I've used specifically say NOT to lap them or you void the warranty.  With todays precision CNC machining i'm not sure how much lapping helps.  So, if you buy quality rings, I wouldn't feel to bad about not having the lapping parts.  I have lapping parts, and have not used it.  

[mikegideon]

38 minutes ago, Slappy said:

Someone with more experience chime in here.....but some of the rings I've used specifically say NOT to lap them or you void the warranty.  With todays precision CNC machining i'm not sure how much lapping helps.  So, if you buy quality rings, I wouldn't feel to bad about not having the lapping parts.  I have lapping parts, and have not used it.  

I have lapped rings and done some good. My most expensive scope was $1k, and is sitting in a Larue mount (that you probably DON'T need to lap). If you lap a set of perfect rings, it will simply dull the finish on the inside of the rings. My bet is that you will find high spots on all of them. If I ever mount something like a Schmidt and Bender, I promise you I will lap the rings.

[Ronald_55]

So what kind of gun do you put a $1k scope on?

[Slappy]

14 minutes ago, mikegideon said:

I have lapped rings and done some good. My most expensive scope was $1k, and is sitting in a Larue mount (that you probably DON'T need to lap). If you lap a set of perfect rings, it will simply dull the finish on the inside of the rings. My bet is that you will find high spots on all of them. If I ever mount something like a Schmidt and Bender, I promise you I will lap the rings.

Ok good to know....I was worried that lapping perfect rings might make them imperfect somehow.  I have a Vortex Razor HD Gen II on my Remington 700 using the Vortex Rings made by Seekins.  I haven't noticed any accuracy issues....but then again I haven't lapped them either. haha 

[Omega]

Honestly, I've never noticed any issues which lapping would help.  The parts that I was more interested in getting was the ring alignment tools.  I might just get this though: http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/sight-scope-installation-tools/scope-alignment-rods/sinclair-scope-alignment-tool-prod36960.aspx

I figured if the rings are aligned correctly, the lapping would become even less needed.

[mikegideon]

1 hour ago, Ronald_55 said:

So what kind of gun do you put a $1k scope on?

$2200 rifle...

[mikegideon]

1 hour ago, Slappy said:

Ok good to know....I was worried that lapping perfect rings might make them imperfect somehow.  I have a Vortex Razor HD Gen II on my Remington 700 using the Vortex Rings made by Seekins.  I haven't noticed any accuracy issues....but then again I haven't lapped them either. haha 

The first thing it fixes is ring marks on the scope. Lapping won't hurt anything. It's like lapping the front of an AR upper receiver. Haven't found one yet that was flat when I started, and I have done several. Even the CMT uppers needed it. 

[Slappy]

9 minutes ago, mikegideon said:

The first thing it fixes is ring marks on the scope. Lapping won't hurt anything. It's like lapping the front of an AR upper receiver. Haven't found one yet that was flat when I started, and I have done several. Even the CMT uppers needed it. 

Good info.  Maybe one day I'll brave up and try lapping.  

[Slappy]

21 minutes ago, mikegideon said:

$2200 rifle...

 

 

Heres my setup....

Edited August 25, 2017 by Slappy

[mikegideon]

Just now, Slappy said:

Good info.  Maybe one day I'll brave up and try lapping.  

I don't even have the 30mm tools. Again, if I had a scope that was a lot of money to me, I would lap the rings. A $1k scope isn't included in that

[mikegideon]

22 minutes ago, Slappy said:

 

 

Heres my setup....

How do you like that Magpul stock? I have been thinking about putting one on my 700

[Slappy]

5 minutes ago, mikegideon said:

How do you like that Magpul stock? I have been thinking about putting one on my 700

I love it.  Installation was easy.  I did have to buy the high cheek riser kit for it to use with my scope. The bedding seems solid and its free floated.  I'm guessing you'd have to pay exponentially more money to get a stock thats slightly better.  So, I think its a good value for the price.  I paid around $210.  

 

 

I'm a complete newb with long range stuff....but here is a 700 yard shot I made recently with it.

Edited August 25, 2017 by Slappy

[mikegideon]

Gotta shoot some groups to see how the gun is doing. Those kinda shots like 1 lb triggers. When we were shooting those kind of ranges, we had a pancake turner with a 1" round hole in it for painting dots on the steel. Nothing to aim at on that big plate.

BTW, If I bought the stock, I would add the parts so I could use box magazines with the rifle too.

Edited August 25, 2017 by mikegideon

[Slappy]

28 minutes ago, mikegideon said:

Gotta shoot some groups to see how the gun is doing. Those kinda shots like 1 lb triggers. When we were shooting those kind of ranges, we had a pancake turner with a 1" round hole in it for painting dots on the steel. Nothing to aim at on that big plate.

BTW, If I bought the stock, I would add the parts so I could use box magazines with the rifle too.

My skills are not good enough yet to get the most out of the rifle.  I've been a hunter and gun owner for 23 years so far and the longest shot I maid prior to that was 187 yards.  The day I made that 700 yard shot, I also shot at 200, 300, 400, 500 and then 700.  So it was an experimental session purely to see if I could ring steel.  I'll be getting some formal instruction at some point to learn more and get the most out of my platform. 

I put a Timney Trigger in that 700 and I set it at 2lbs.  I've felt a Jewel trigger at 1-1.5 and it scared me how light it was,haha.  So I feel like 2lbs, for me right now, is good.

The box magazines are nice, but they don't drop freely. I think the AICS mags are supposed to drop freely, but I don't care enough about that to pay the cost for them.  Also, the Magpul mags are set to hold 5rds because of mag limit restrictions in other states, however one of the plastic parts in there is designed to be ground down to fit a 6th round in it if you so desire. 

 

[mikegideon]

15 minutes ago, Slappy said:

My skills are not good enough yet to get the most out of the rifle.  I've been a hunter and gun owner for 23 years so far and the longest shot I maid prior to that was 187 yards.  The day I made that 700 yard shot, I also shot at 200, 300, 400, 500 and then 700.  So it was an experimental session purely to see if I could ring steel.  I'll be getting some formal instruction at some point to learn more and get the most out of my platform. 

I put a Timney Trigger in that 700 and I set it at 2lbs.  I've felt a Jewel trigger at 1-1.5 and it scared me how light it was,haha.  So I feel like 2lbs, for me right now, is good.

The box magazines are nice, but they don't drop freely. I think the AICS mags are supposed to drop freely, but I don't care enough about that to pay the cost for them.  Also, the Magpul mags are set to hold 5rds because of mag limit restrictions in other states, however one of the plastic parts in there is designed to be ground down to fit a 6th round in it if you so desire. 

 

The Jewell is awesome. I have one on my 700 set to 1lb. Get a squeeze bag to put under the stock and use it for fine elevation adjustment. I use this one.  https://www.accuracy1st.com/store/itemDetail.cfm?prodID=556

You have to lean into your bipod and put some tension on it to make it stable.

There's some good info the the old Magpul Art of the Precision Rifle DVD's. They are discontinued. This is probably great, since Todd was the instructor on the Magpul DVD's.  https://www.accuracy1st.com/store/itemDetail.cfm?prodID=706

Edited August 25, 2017 by mikegideon

[DaveTN]

9 hours ago, Slappy said:

Someone with more experience chime in here.....but some of the rings I've used specifically say NOT to lap them or you void the warranty.  With todays precision CNC machining i'm not sure how much lapping helps.  So, if you buy quality rings, I wouldn't feel to bad about not having the lapping parts.  I have lapping parts, and have not used it.  

Lapping the rings allows for full engagement of the rings at the proper torque value. This assures that the scope won’t move, and there won’t be marks on the scope. It also helps get a perfect alignment so the scope isn’t in a bind. As metal gets hot it moves. Having full engagement on the rings lessens the impact of this movement.

So do you need to lap rings? Well, like everything that’s application driven. With quality rings that are set-up properly most of us won’t notice any difference. I don’t do it because I change my set-up around often. I also don’t get to shoot beyond 300 yards. But a 1000 yard bench rest shooter could possibly see better consistency through the temperature range.

Like anything, if not done improperly you could mess up a set of rings. I wouldn’t be concerned with a warranty on rings because short of a ring breaking; any problem will probably be because of improper set-up and not covered anyway.

However, everyone has their opinions. Just like mine about thread locker; if you have the proper fit you don’t need it. You also need to know if you are using it you are getting a “wet” torque. In tooling and die work we only use it when we have something we don’t want to ever come out. (And that’s rarely)

BTW…. CNC machining is only as good as the programmer, operator, and set-up. Plenty of parts are made out of spec or scrapped.

[mikegideon]

4 hours ago, DaveTN said:

BTW…. CNC machining is only as good as the programmer, operator, and set-up...

and the capabilities (tolerances) of the machine and condition of the tooling.

When it come to thread locker, lots of gun parts come with it already on the threads, and lots more recommend it. The Daniel Defense rail in the pic above comes with it. Nobody recommends that evil red crap, except JP Rifles for their handguards. I have one of those too, plumb full of the red stuff. You gotta remove those with a torch.

Edited August 25, 2017 by mikegideon

[Slappy]

Thats a good point about temperature variances.  

[gregintenn]

I've never lapped a ring and have never had a problem. I've also never put locktite on ring or base screws. Again, never a problem.