Cheatham county cops tasing the hell out of someone

[Sam1]

As always, we don't know what happened before the video starts.  But good lord I've never seen someone hit with a taser for so long.  I thought the limit was 5 seconds?  And to top it off, he tased him right on top of his heart, which I thought was not supposed to happen.  Then telling the guy he was going to keep tasing him until his battery runs out.

I usually go with the cops before the full video is released, but this one makes it pretty hard considering the guy is already mostly restrained in a chair and even with a bunch of cops there, they just keep zapping him like he's going to spit out gold coins for them.

https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a37_1501291461

After digging around a bit, looks like he was arrested on a misdemeanor pot charge, and they tased him 40 times over an 8 hour period.  'supposedly' they are saying the tox reports came back clean after he was sent to the hospital.  If this is the case, I hope he owns half of cheatham county by the end of the year.

Edited July 30, 2017 by Sam1

[Chucktshoes]

 Now, this is pure speculation on my part.  Looks like some butt hurt over not having their authoritah respected.   There is a word to describe what we are witnessing in this video, and it is torture. It doesn't matter what happened before what is shown on the video, every officer involved should be wearing cuffs. 

Edited July 30, 2017 by Chucktshoes

[Ugly]

It does look bad, that's for sure. 

Reminds me of the days that they used shock therapy in the State hospitals. I don't think they were trying to cure this guy though. 

[bersaguy]

My Grandson works in the jail in Cheatham County and I know he would not have had anything to do with that ordeal. He is head jailer on the night shift and I can promise you it would not have happened on his shift. It looks like he will be pulling longer shifts again cause they are already short of staff and going to be short again. As far as people that did this. You can bet they will probably be charged with something and I do agree that the man they tazed needs to own a good portion of Cheatham County...........JMHO

[Ugly]

The bad thing about those lawsuits is the impact on the taxpayer!

i don't know how big that county is but I bet they don't have millions sitting around to handover.

 

[Sam1]

37 minutes ago, Ugly said:

The bad thing about those lawsuits is the impact on the taxpayer!

i don't know how big that county is but I bet they don't have millions sitting around to handover.

 

Yeah, I don't know how to handle those types of settlements but it would be nice if the individuals were responsible instead of the organization.  I'm sure there are a lot of good cops there that are going to feel the pinch too, when it was just a handful of people involved.

[DaveTN]

Are those cops in jail? If not how did the DA justify not charging them?

EDIT: 

I just read the stories on NEWS 5 and the Tennessean. All I can say is “Wow”, how did it take 9 months for this to become public. Our current Federal Justice Department and the President are very pro law and order. I think the Feds will make an example out of these Deputies/jailers behavior.

I don’t usually jump to conclusions without seeing the evidence. But I see it here. I don’t care if he was high, drunk, and just shot a Deputy; he was restrained and under control. He was being tased by a sadistic Deputy/jailer that I assume will go to prison and all the Deputies and Jail personal that stood around doing nothing should be fired (at a minimum).

Read the reports of the Sherriff saying the jail personnel acted within guidelines. Guidelines for where; Abu Ghraib?

He has suspended three jailers and turned the investigation over to TBI. After the lawsuit was filed…like he had any choice in the matter.

Edited July 30, 2017 by DaveTN

[btq96r]

For something like this, I'm up for anyone who had a duty to report and failed to do so being rolled into any administrative actions, up to and including prosecution if warranted.  I hope any investigation finds out who falls into that category.

 

4 hours ago, Ugly said:

The bad thing about those lawsuits is the impact on the taxpayer!

i don't know how big that county is but I bet they don't have millions sitting around to handover.

 

It's not the amount, it's the apathy of the public that's the problem.  In a perfect world, the amounts a city or county are tagged for in a lawsuit would spur reform, or a sweep of the leadership responsible.  That doesn't happen from what I see.

[Chucktshoes]

5 hours ago, DaveTN said:

Our current Federal Justice Department and the President are very pro law and order. I think the Feds will make an example out of these Deputies/jailers behavior.

 I agree with everything you said Dave, with the exception of the quoted lines. The current administration and its Justice Department  are very pro law enforcement, not pro law and order. They are different things and it is very dangerous to confuse the two. I believe recent statements to law enforcement about not being overly concerned with how tough they're being with suspects lends credence to my position. 

[Garufa]

27 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

 I agree with everything you said Dave, with the exception of the quoted lines. The current administration and its Justice Department  are very pro law enforcement, not pro law and order. They are different things and it is very dangerous to confuse the two. I believe recent statements to law enforcement about not being overly concerned with how tough they're being with suspects lends credence to my position. 

I tend to agree. Sessions' support of civil forfeiture is ample proof.

[gregintenn]

5 hours ago, DaveTN said:

Are those cops in jail? If not how did the DA justify not charging them?

EDIT: 

I just read the stories on NEWS 5 and the Tennessean. All I can say is “Wow”, how did it take 9 months for this to become public. Our current Federal Justice Department and the President are very pro law and order. I think the Feds will make an example out of these Deputies/jailers behavior.

I don’t usually jump to conclusions without seeing the evidence. But I see it here. I don’t care if he was high, drunk, and just shot a Deputy; he was restrained and under control. He was being tased by a sadistic Deputy/jailer that I assume will go to prison and all the Deputies and Jail personal that stood around doing nothing should be fired (at a minimum).

Read the reports of the Sherriff saying the jail personnel acted within guidelines. Guidelines for where; Abu Ghraib?

He has suspended three jailers and turned the investigation over to TBI. After the lawsuit was filed…like he had any choice in the matter.

Seriously??!!? My first thought was that someone got pizzed at their boss and that was the only way it EVER became public.

[Erik88]

I'm having a hard time believing cops could be that stupid and evil. That looks like something out of a movie. Generally speaking, I'm very supportive of law enforcement. I'm not sure I can continue to defend them after watching that.

Something tells me that's not the first time they have done that. That was too well rehearsed. They even thought to give him a bite rag. They need to all be heading to trial.

[Erik88]

17 minutes ago, Garufa said:

I tend to agree. Sessions' support of civil forfeiture is ample proof.

I heard about this on the news recently and couldn't believe that cops have the ability to seize assets based on their belief that someone was guilty of a crime. What happened to due process? How did this even become a possibility?

[gregintenn]

17 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

I'm having a hard time believing cops could be that stupid and evil. That looks like something out of a movie. Generally speaking, I'm very supportive of law enforcement. I'm not sure I can continue to defend them after watching that.

Something tells me that's not the first time they have done that. That was too well rehearsed. They even thought to give him a bite rag. They need to all be heading to trial.

Color me cynical, because I have no problem whatsoever believing it.

[btq96r]

1 hour ago, Erik88 said:

I'm having a hard time believing cops could be that stupid and evil.

Over 40 years ago, the Stanford Prison Experiment showed the power dynamic between guard and prisoner that leads to things like this.  I'm not surprised it happened, not surprised it took so long to come to light...and I'm standing by to see these guy get slaps on the wrist.  The surprise will be if they're held to full account for what they did.

 

[Chucktshoes]

2 minutes ago, btq96r said:

Over 40 years ago, the Stanford Prison Experiment showed the power dynamic between guard and prisoner that leads to things like this.  I'm not surprised it happened, not surprised it took so long to come to light...and I'm standing by to see these guy get slaps on the wrist.  The surprise will be if they're held to full account for what they did.

 

 Why would they be brought to full account for anything? After all, everything they did was "within policy guidelines."

[Erik88]

1 minute ago, Chucktshoes said:

 Why would they be brought to full account for anything? After all, everything they did was "within policy guidelines."

I've been seeing things in a different light lately. On Friday I was driving home from work and 3 cop cars from Crossville came up beside me. These guys were 60 miles outside their jurisdiction yet they were doing 15 over the posted speed limit and tailgating (intimidating) every vehicle until they moved out of their way. 

Imagine if one of us came up behind a cop and rode their ass just to get them to move over. 

[WindHawk]

11 hours ago, Sam1 said:

After digging around a bit, looks like he was arrested on a misdemeanor pot charge, and they tased him 40 times over an 8 hour period.  'supposedly' they are saying the tox reports came back clean after he was sent to the hospital.  If this is the case, I hope he owns half of cheatham county by the end of the year.

First, let me clearly emphasize that I do not approve of mistreatment of individuals, whether under arrest or not.  However, there may be more to this story than has been told.  The Tennessean's local paper, the Ashland City Times is reporting the following: 

"Norris was arrested Nov. 3, 2016 and charged with felony manufacturing/possession of marijuana for resale, possession of drug paraphernalia, theft under $500, five counts of possession of a prohibited weapon.

He was charged felony vandalism of over $1,000 and simple assault Nov. 7 while still incarcerated.

Norris was originally suspected of stealing a semi-automatic rifle and Sheriff's deputies received information he was going to use the weapon on any law enforcement who tried to arrest him, according to Sheriff Mike Breedlove."

Someone I know with corrections experience pointed out a couple of things to me.  The $1,000 felony vandalism charge is typical for damaging/destroying the fire protection sprinkler in a cell.  Might be what happened, maybe not.  Nov 5, 2016 was on Saturday, which is also the date of the videos: the charges would have been placed on the next business day, i.e. Nov 7th.

As always, I feel we can full confidence in the news media's reports.  In this case, they have the individual as 20 years old, or 19 years old, or an 18 year old juvenile.  He's reported to be from Tennessee.  Or Texas.  Take your pick.   

Again, I'm not taking any position on this incident, only suggesting that the full story needs to be uncovered and, only then, should judgements be made. 

[Erik88]

27 minutes ago, WindHawk said:

First, let me clearly emphasize that I do not approve of mistreatment of individuals, whether under arrest or not.  However, there may be more to this story than has been told.  The Tennessean's local paper, the Ashland City Times is reporting the following: 

"Norris was arrested Nov. 3, 2016 and charged with felony manufacturing/possession of marijuana for resale, possession of drug paraphernalia, theft under $500, five counts of possession of a prohibited weapon.

He was charged felony vandalism of over $1,000 and simple assault Nov. 7 while still incarcerated.

Norris was originally suspected of stealing a semi-automatic rifle and Sheriff's deputies received information he was going to use the weapon on any law enforcement who tried to arrest him, according to Sheriff Mike Breedlove."

Someone I know with corrections experience pointed out a couple of things to me.  The $1,000 felony vandalism charge is typical for damaging/destroying the fire protection sprinkler in a cell.  Might be what happened, maybe not.  Nov 5, 2016 was on Saturday, which is also the date of the videos: the charges would have been placed on the next business day, i.e. Nov 7th.

As always, I feel we can full confidence in the news media's reports.  In this case, they have the individual as 20 years old, or 19 years old, or an 18 year old juvenile.  He's reported to be from Tennessee.  Or Texas.  Take your pick.   

Again, I'm not taking any position on this incident, only suggesting that the full story needs to be uncovered and, only then, should judgements be made. 

Normally I would agree but I can't see how it would make a difference in this case. He was essentially tied to a chair. Why taser him repeatedly? 

[MacGyver]

No one deserves to be treated like that.

When you lose sight of a person's humanity, that ought to be a good indication that you need to find another career.

[Dustbuster]

If a sherrif can be thrown in fed pen over vapor smoke money cheatham co sheriff should be ousted and jailed and thrown to a mexican cartel. the whole incident is out of any standard. there is no protocol for tasing someone retrained in a chair....douche


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[Chucktshoes]

This seems like an opportune time to unpack my earlier statement about there being a difference between supporting the law and order, and supporting law enforcement. 

When one supports law and order, they hold the law itself in high esteem. They believe that the law exists for the good of the people. This means that while they may have respect for those that enforce the law, the law itself is paramount. Therefore, they seek to hold the enforcers of the law to the highest standards of the law and have little tolerance for those that break not just the letter, but the spirit of the laws they have sworn to uphold. 

When one supports law enforcement, instead of the law itself being held in the highest esteem, it is those that enforce it who are elevated. This leads to situations where one holds greater tolerance for those that bend the laws, or violate the spirit of the law as long as they don't break the letter of it. It also causes one to seek to explain away or excuse instance where those who uphold the laws break them outright and/or engage in gross mistreatment of the people they are supposed to serve. 

Some folks may view this as an unfair distinction, but it isn't. Just as one can't serve two masters, one can't hold law enforcement and the law itself in equally high esteem when the actions of one may cause conflict with the other. A choice must always be made.*

 

 

(*There is a third choice, but that is a rejection of both and is not really applicable to the conversation we are having which is predicated on the position that the law is legitimate in its authority.)

Edited July 31, 2017 by Chucktshoes

[Sam1]

10 hours ago, WindHawk said:

First, let me clearly emphasize that I do not approve of mistreatment of individuals, whether under arrest or not.  However, there may be more to this story than has been told.  The Tennessean's local paper, the Ashland City Times is reporting the following: 

"Norris was arrested Nov. 3, 2016 and charged with felony manufacturing/possession of marijuana for resale, possession of drug paraphernalia, theft under $500, five counts of possession of a prohibited weapon.

He was charged felony vandalism of over $1,000 and simple assault Nov. 7 while still incarcerated.

Norris was originally suspected of stealing a semi-automatic rifle and Sheriff's deputies received information he was going to use the weapon on any law enforcement who tried to arrest him, according to Sheriff Mike Breedlove."

Someone I know with corrections experience pointed out a couple of things to me.  The $1,000 felony vandalism charge is typical for damaging/destroying the fire protection sprinkler in a cell.  Might be what happened, maybe not.  Nov 5, 2016 was on Saturday, which is also the date of the videos: the charges would have been placed on the next business day, i.e. Nov 7th.

As always, I feel we can full confidence in the news media's reports.  In this case, they have the individual as 20 years old, or 19 years old, or an 18 year old juvenile.  He's reported to be from Tennessee.  Or Texas.  Take your pick.   

Again, I'm not taking any position on this incident, only suggesting that the full story needs to be uncovered and, only then, should judgements be made. 

This brings up another issue I have - charge stacking where the police throw a crap load of charges at someone for the same crime and hope one of them sticks.  Why would anyone have 5 charges for "possession of a prohibited weapon"? It's the same thing and shows that they are simply trying to **** the guy over.

The entire situation just stinks to high heaven

Edited July 31, 2017 by Sam1

[Dolomite_supafly]

The restraint chair is generally used when an inmate is doing something to injure themselves. It should not be used as punishment even though it sometimes is.

I have used that exact restraint chair in the past. Those chairs are awful in that a kindergartner could loosen the restraints and escape. When inmates are placed in that restraint chair they are secured across their chest with two "seat belts". Their hands are secured to the armrests using straps, and often handcuffs too. And their feet are also secured using straps AND leg restraints. It looks like the inmate has partially released himself and is now trying to fight being restrained again. I have had this exact same scenario play out at least a dozen times except we would just get more officers to force the inmate to do what we want them to do. There are WAY too many officers present to justify the continued use of a tazer after it became clear it is having no effect on him. He is a young man, doesn't look particularly muscular so I am sure a few more officers could have easily forced him without using a tazer to try to make him. Tazers are very painful and I could not imagine getting tazed for minutes at a time, no wonder he wanted to kill himself after being treated the way he was.

If we did have an inmate that continued to escape the chair we would just put mitts on their hands so they cannot work  the belt release. If that didn't work we would remove them from the chair, handcuff them to the bars of a cell and let him stand around for a while. And for those inmates who would try to smash their head on the bars, walls or restraint chair we had a helmet we would strap onto them. We had an inmate who was was secured to a bench in a holding cell. He put his head as far between his legs as he could then swing up as hard as he could hitting his head on the bars. That was the reason we started using a helmet, it split his head to the bone and then he started swinging his head around slinging blood EVERYWHERE. When we tried to help him it was like wresting with a greased pig because of all the blood and all of us were covered in his blood. After the chief seen the video he got approval to use a helmet on inmates who had a propensity to smash their heads on things.

I would also like to hear how long he sat in that chair. I am pretty sure the federal guidelines for use of a restraint chair limits the time to two hours. That is unless the inmate is continuing to do things to harm themselves then the time can be extended. I would be willing to bet this inmate sat in that chair most of the night.

As far as the multiple charges that is pretty common to ensure the DA gets at least one conviction. They will stack a lifetime's worth of charges against someone, tell them they will spend the rest of their lives in jail then the DA will offer them a super sweet plea deal. That way the DA gets a conviction.

The most disturbing part of the video for me was the laughing and humor these officers seemed find while this young man was being tortured. I hope the sheriff and every officer present, even if they were not actively involved, get charged criminally as well as sued for violating his constitutional right to be free from cruel and unusual punishment. If an officer was present and did nothing to stop this they should also be charged.

Imagine the pain he had to endure. That tazer cooked him.

[Dolomite_supafly]

BTW, jurisdictions have county insurance that will pay out instead of the tax payers in most cases.