Interstate Highway part of TN National Forest?

[Guest Roller]

TN prohibits the carrying of concealed handgun in National Forests and Wildlife Management Areas (70-4-117). I frequently travel through TN going to TX and to the East coast. I40 crosses the TN National Wildlife Refuge, Natchez Trace State Park and Forest, and the Hatchie National Wildlife Refuge between Nashville and Memphis. I75 crosses the Cherokee National Forest before entering NC.

Here is the question. If I stay on the Interstate Highway at all times, not stopping for anything, not getting off at any exist within the specified lands, is this a violation of the TN code? Is the Interstate Highway part of the restricted areas?

I have asked this question to “official†organizations in the TN government, such as the TN Department of Public Safety, handgun permit office. The answers can only be described as not answering the question about carrying on the Interstate Highway system and passing through the restricted areas. I look at it as similar to passing through a school zone while carrying. Maybe that is wrong.

What are your opinions? Again, if you have a citation I would very much be interested in reading the source.

Thanks for you time and keep up the good work on the forums.

Roller

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[Guest GUTTERbOY]

I'm not convinced that 70-4-117 has any standing on National Forests:

(a) It is unlawful for any person to be in possession of any firearm, bow and arrow, shotgun or rifle in, on, or while traversing any refuge, public hunting area or wildlife management area frequented or inhabited by big game, except during specified or lawful open seasons on these areas. Any person violating this section is guilty of hunting big game and shall be punished as provided for in subsections ( and ©.

Perhaps someone else could comment on this?

[Guest db99wj]

Interstates, state highways, public highways are typically on their land, they have taken a Right of Way from the landowner, usually when the road was built. A park doesn't have to be a solid area of land, roads can divide them. Side roads, off ramps, gas stations, resturants along the highway's are probably owned by a different land owner, not the park, the park land will go around it. Park roads, park facilities are a different story. IMO, and IANAL, but you are ok as long as you are on public roads and private establishments like McDonalds, Exxons etc. If the road has a gate, or a sign that says something in the effect of park hours, or park rules, or other park related items, I would assume that iswhere the actual park property is and you are leaving the public part.

Something to be careful about, You also have to be careful of rest stops, because of the no carry at parks thing and many of the rest stops, have park areas and are designated as such.

[Fallguy]

Doesn't the Highway Dept by the right of way to make highways and interstates? If so the land that the roadway is on belongs to them and the park system.

[oldogy]

Yeah, this part of the law has bothered me for years. I am an older guy, probably much older than most folks that you find out in the woods, on and off the trails. From what I find out the law is to prevent a person from poaching. Another one of the stupid laws that we have enacted over time. Of course it does not matter if I run onto a druggie protecting his stash and willing to rob and kill me in a heartbeat. If he gets caught, he is back on the street in 24 hours. If I get caught on the mentioned lands while carrying I am most likely in deep trouble even though at 70 years of age the most serious law infraction I've ever had is a parking ticket.

So do we act to change the law?

End of rant.

oldogy

[Guest nj.piney]

b t w welcome to tgo .

[Guest Roller]

nj.piney: Thanks; glad to be here.

db99wj: "Something to be careful about, You also have to be careful of rest stops, because of the no carry at parks thing and many of the rest stops, have park areas and are designated as such. " I had not considered that avenue of problems. We only use the rest areas as restroom and water breaks but I'll keep that in mind.

The other part of your reply was a way of looking at the road that I had not considered. It sure would be nice to have a piece of paper that says that the Interstate Highway right - of - way is not part of the resticted parks / refuges area.

Thanks to all for the replies.

Roller

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[tn terry t]

we were told you can go on school grounds as long the gun never leaves the vehicle for the purpose to pick up or delivery of students we were also told that you can pass through the parks. this was at my hand gun class last saturday

[GTODALEP]

While I am driving through and often into these types of areas(interstate highways where Roller is asking about), I am not driving waving my firearm around in the air, or leave it laying on the dash etc. I also do not drive irratically, speed excessively, and generally do not draw attention to myself, thus not giving any law enforcement officer any reason to want to check the contents of my vehicle. I have been driving in TN for 34 years now(Smokey Mtns to Memphis), and have not had a problem with a firearm in the vehicle. Hypothetically, I may have carried for many years before I had a permit to do so, and have never had a problem, even though I have been issues citations for driving infractions, hypothetically.

[Guest db99wj]

nj.piney: Thanks; glad to be here.

db99wj: "Something to be careful about, You also have to be careful of rest stops, because of the no carry at parks thing and many of the rest stops, have park areas and are designated as such. " I had not considered that avenue of problems. We only use the rest areas as restroom and water breaks but I'll keep that in mind.

The other part of your reply was a way of looking at the road that I had not considered. It sure would be nice to have a piece of paper that says that the Interstate Highway right - of - way is not part of the resticted parks / refuges area.

Thanks to all for the replies.

Roller

Check 360

The only thing I would be able to prove is to look at property ownership records of the tracts of land. For example, here in Memphis, there is a public website with a GIS mapping system with all property ownership mapped out. I looked at I-40, just to make sure I am correct, ownership and there is a right of way area along the roadway that does not show ownership. The property lines along the interstate, go to certain distance away from the interstate. TDOT, city or county owns this land. There was land that was owned by the penal farm/Shelby Farms park that crossed I-40 at the Wolf River. The land had a border on each side of I-40. It shows to me anyway and in my opinion gives you the right to cross these lands without having to "disarm"

Another example. When TDOT comes in and widens a highway, and they take land on either side of a 2-lane highway, they have the "right" to take the land through acquisition at a fair market value. TDOT makes an offer on the land and purchases the land for the expansion. They own it.

I don't know of the specific law or anything in writing that says this, hopefully our resident law nerds will show up and show us the written stuff.

Also, in regards to schools, here is the law, I took out some other stuff so here is the link, http://www.michie.com/tennessee/lpext.dll/tncode/11662/12084/123d6/12425?f=templates&fn=document-frame.htm&2.0

39-17-1309. Carrying weapons on school property. —

© (1) It is an offense for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, any firearm, not used solely for instructional or school-sanctioned ceremonial purposes, in any public or private school building or bus, on any public or private school campus, grounds, recreation area, athletic field or any other property owned, used or operated by any board of education, school, college or university board of trustees, regents or directors for the administration of any public or private educational institution. It is not an offense under this subsection © for a nonstudent adult to possess a firearm, if the firearm is contained within a private vehicle operated by the adult and is not handled by the adult, or by any other person acting with the expressed or implied consent of the adult, while the vehicle is on school property.

This allows you to go to school functions, like sporting events, meetings, etc on school grounds and also to drop off children without having to disarm to the point of not carrying or unloading. You can keep it in your car while you go in, or if you are dropping off, picking up, kids, you can keep it on you as long as you don't play with it....

[Oh Shoot]

...

This allows you to go to school functions, like sporting events, meetings, etc on school grounds and also to drop off children without having to disarm to the point of not carrying or unloading.

Tangential to the roads discussion and the school carry, is that fact that the car navigable streets running through universities are not university property, either. Meaning, I have the right to walk on a Knoxville street, packing.

- OS

[Guest clownsdd]

dang db...good research thanks.

[Guest db99wj]

Tangential to the roads discussion and the school carry, is that fact that the car navigable streets running through universities are not university property, either. Meaning, I have the right to walk on a Knoxville street, packing.

- OS

Tangential.....one of those learned words....impressive.

Some are public, some are private. I looked at the University of Memphis and the main streets, like Central Avenue cuts through but is owned and maintained by the city, whereas some other streets that go through the interior of campus are owned by the state of Tennessee and are maintained by the university, as is the property where buildings are located.

So you can, it appears, that you could walk on certain streets that are on or border or pass through a campus area without breaking the law.

Edited January 15, 2009 by db99wj

[Oh Shoot]

Tangential.....one of those learned words....impressive.

Well, all words are "learned". ??

Some are public, some are private.

The major ones through UT Knoxville have traffic meters and standard city placed directional, no parking, and other signs, and city traffic lights. Also, cars are ticketed by Knoxville meter maids. And when the streets are worked on, standard city crews are doing it, not state DOT. So I'm assuming they are all City of Knoxville streets, although I don't have any kind of ownership record to refer to.

- OS

[Guest oldhack62]

This is a good example of why -- even though Tennessee state law doesn't require it -- you should take pains to conceal your weapon: since the need to use a weapon is an affirmative defense for carrying one, the converse is that not having to use one is an affirmative (okay, not legally, but practically) defense for carrying one concealed. In other words, if nobody knows you have that pistol on/in your belt, there's no reason for anyone to question your law-abiding status. However, should you have to draw your gun to protect yourself (or a loved one), the threat is enough to justify your response.

Cover it up, folks, and worry a lot less.

[Oh Shoot]

....

Cover it up, folks, and worry a lot less.

RUT ROH.

[Guest db99wj]

Well, all words are "learned". ??

The major ones through UT Knoxville have traffic meters and standard city placed directional, no parking, and other signs, and city traffic lights. Also, cars are ticketed by Knoxville meter maids. And when the streets are worked on, standard city crews are doing it, not state DOT. So I'm assuming they are all City of Knoxville streets, although I don't have any kind of ownership record to refer to.

- OS

City owned, state owned sounds like those are public and appears that the "school" part of the law has no jurisdiction on them.

This is very interesting.

[Guest Roller]

the maze that we CHL holders have to navigate to defend our selves and our loved ones.

I am beginning to come to the conclusion that the "right of way" position is probably correct, but it would be nice if we could find some official confirmation of that position. I'm still looking (with internet searches) for this comfirmaton. I wonder if TDOT could confirm this position?

Again, thanks for taking the time and effort in discussing this subject. I am a big proponent of "concealed means concealed" but you never know when you will have an accident or otherwise encounter law enforcement in these areas. Being legal is comforting.

Roller

Check 360

[Oh Shoot]

...

I am beginning to come to the conclusion that the "right of way" position is probably correct, ..

Look, the interstate is the interstate. Federal highway. Nobody is gonna charge you with carrying a weapon while in a national forest if pulled over on the interstate. Really. If this were a real possibility, it would be known and publicized.

In addition, federal firearm law allows you to transport firearms from one legal place to another legal place, whether you have a handgun carry permit or not. Only difference is whether you can have it on you and/or loaded or not. No permit, neither long guns or handguns can be loaded. With permit, only handguns can be loaded.

Relax, and carry on with your normal business and (safe and legal) driving behavior.

- OS

[Fallguy]

I agree... with OS

Also...I doubt you are really going to find anything that says it's ok, at least from an "offical source". Sort of like there is now law or paper that says wearing a red shirt is ok, it is simply ok because there is no law against it.

[Tim Nunan]

I believe there is a "right of passage" law for surface travel between states. I'll have to check the NRA pamphlet. I'd think that it would apply to any public road; just have to be sure not to leave that road's right-of-way.

Edited January 16, 2009 by Tim Nunan
spelling correction

[DaveTN]

Isn't it interesting... the maze that we CHL holders have to navigate to defend our selves and our loved ones

It’s better than the options I had in Illinois. Although the questions on where you could carry were a lot easier to answer.