States begin teaching armed drivers how to interact with police

[bersaguy]

"The problem is goverment employees can't be ordered to give a statement and that be used against them in court. Garrity rights. He may have given a statement for internal investigation but not criminal investigation. Also I seem to have read something about their laws in relation to giving a statement."

No Offense and I hope none taken with this but that is nothing more than telling him it was alright to shoot her and not have to say why he did it unless I am missing something? So he killed her. Does not face any charges and does not have to tell why is inviting him to do it again................JMHO 

[Pain103]

 Just because someone gets a paycheck from a city doesn't mean they can force you to give a legal statement. Same rights we all have. I have no doubt that not giving a statement is going to keep him from being fired and charged. He's done.

[mikegideon]

5 hours ago, DaveTN said:

Most of these incidents go down before they find out the person has a carry permit; not that it would matter or even be a consideration. Their actions, appearance, and whether or not they are following instructions (especially when a deadly weapon is involved) is what matters. There is no such thing as a “routine” traffic stop was drilled into our heads as they showed the videos and told the stories of cops being killed on traffic stops.

I think most of us here agree that more training would be good for everyone involved. I also think most of us here would also agree that if a bad guy or a cop is screaming at you to stop as you grab for your gun; you are about to be shot.

I'm gonna leave this right here...

 

[DaveTN]

11 hours ago, bersaguy said:

No Offense and I hope none taken with this but that is nothing more than telling him it was alright to shoot her and not have to say why he did it unless I am missing something? So he killed her. Does not face any charges and does not have to tell why is inviting him to do it again................JMHO 

He has a right to invoke the 5th; and they can fire him for it. Based on the very little bit I have seen; he will be charged criminally. The lack of information being released is ridiculous. And them saying the investigation could take 3-4 months is also crazy. The Officer driving the Patrol car is talking and has given his statement. As soon as a citizen invoked the 5th they would have been arrested; it should be no different for him.

I’ve tried to think of what he could be using as a defense, and can’t think of anything. So he heard a loud noise (gun shot) and thought it was an ambush?  Even if that was the case you don’t start shooting everyone in the area.

Unless there is some astounding revelation in this case; I think he is headed for prison. That is if he is still in the country by the time they decide to arrest him.

[DaveTN]

6 hours ago, mikegideon said:

I'm gonna leave this right here...

 

Those are the kind of videos they show you in training, and believe me they stick with you.

[bersaguy]

4 hours ago, DaveTN said:

He has a right to invoke the 5th; and they can fire him for it. Based on the very little bit I have seen; he will be charged criminally. The lack of information being released is ridiculous. And them saying the investigation could take 3-4 months is also crazy. The Officer driving the Patrol car is talking and has given his statement. As soon as a citizen invoked the 5th they would have been arrested; it should be no different for him.

I’ve tried to think of what he could be using as a defense, and can’t think of anything. So he heard a loud noise (gun shot) and thought it was an ambush?  Even if that was the case you don’t start shooting everyone in the area.

Unless there is some astounding revelation in this case; I think he is headed for prison. That is if he is still in the country by the time they decide to arrest him.

Be pretty hard to arrest him if he is in Somalia won't it? I hope they are keeping eyes on him every minute of every day. With what I have read about his 3 year record I have no clue why he was still on the force period unless they have a lot of trouble finding replacements. I sincerely support our men and women in uniform and yea I do undertstand that there are some that should not be in job because they are unfit to serve but that is in all jobs regardless of what it is. There are just some jobs that require special people that Law enforcement is one of them...............JMHO

[mikegideon]

5 hours ago, DaveTN said:

Those are the kind of videos they show you in training, and believe me they stick with you.

I think that one was used for training. There is a time to shoot somebody like that, and its supposed to be before he shoots you.

[btq96r]

On 7/24/2017 at 5:38 AM, DaveTN said:

Philando Castile did everything wrong and it cost him his life.

I can't reconcile this comment with the fact that Castile's gun was never drawn.

[DaveTN]

7 hours ago, btq96r said:

I can't reconcile this comment with the fact that Castile's gun was never drawn.

As you saw in the video above; by the time the gun is drawn it’s too late. As I said whether it’s a bad guy or a cop, if someone is pointing a gun at you and screaming at you to stop; chances are good you are about to be shot.

We have no idea if Castile was going to try to shoot that cop or not; and we will never know.

[peejman]

2 hours ago, DaveTN said:

As you saw in the video above; by the time the gun is drawn it’s too late. As I said whether it’s a bad guy or a cop, if someone is pointing a gun at you and screaming at you to stop; chances are good you are about to be shot.

We have no idea if Castile was going to try to shoot that cop or not; and we will never know.

Is there a background story to the video above? 

Re: Castille from my memory of the video, there was less than 1 second between the cop pointing a gun and screaming and shots being fired. That's not much time for the OODA loop to run. 

[btq96r]

13 hours ago, DaveTN said:

by the time the gun is drawn it’s too late.

Deadly force in response to a theoretical versus and established threat is not something I want around. 

Yes I know that ups the risk to LEO's.  But it's a risky business, and citizens rights needs to be first and foremost of every encounter, or else those rights are meaningless...even at the expense of increased risk to the officer.

[mikegideon]

2 hours ago, btq96r said:

Deadly force in response to a theoretical versus and established threat is not something I want around. 

Yes I know that ups the risk to LEO's.  But it's a risky business, and citizens rights needs to be first and foremost of every encounter, or else those rights are meaningless...even at the expense of increased risk to the officer.

You should consider beautiful Ferguson, MO. I understand it's near impossible to get shot by the police there. You may get shot by one of the residents, but that's the trade-off.  

[btq96r]

Move to a place where municipal court collections fund a crazy percentage of the city budget? Pass.

I'll just stay here and keep keeping it real. [emoji4]

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk. OhShoot very much likes to know when we're using Tapatalk.

[mikegideon]

25 minutes ago, btq96r said:

Move to a place where municipal court collections fund a crazy percentage of the city budget? Pass.

I'll just stay here and keep keeping it real.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk. OhShoot very much likes to know when we're using Tapatalk.
 

St. Louis County is a strange place. All those little turd municipalities would have been annexed by St. Louis eons ago if the hadn't locked down the St. Louis city border.

[DaveTN]

11 hours ago, btq96r said:

Deadly force in response to a theoretical versus and established threat is not something I want around. 

Yes I know that ups the risk to LEO's.  But it's a risky business, and citizens rights needs to be first and foremost of every encounter, or else those rights are meaningless...even at the expense of increased risk to the officer.

Cops aren’t expected (by most) to be punching bags or used for target practice. They are trained to enforce the law, and when faced with violence they are trained to stay alive (first) and then protect those around them. I had no problem with going towards the danger, but when faced with violence I neutralized it with any means available.

Every case is judged on what a reasonable person would believe (Judge or Jury) under any given circumstances. I doubt that will change. In violent encounters innocent people are going to get killed. Training on both sides can reduce that. I know how to stay alive if I am attacked, I also know how to stay alive if I am in a situation where I have to pull a gun and the Police are arriving on the scene. I also am very aware of how fast an armed encounter with someone trying to take your life goes down. Hesitate a fraction of a second and you could die, read the situation wrong and you could go to prison. It isn’t just the cops, if you carry a gun the same applies to you.

We could start telling stories one after the other of the good guys getting killed, questionable shootings, or clearly bad shootings. The key is training. Bad guys train also. If a trained bad guy decides to take you (or a cop) out, all the guns in the world won’t help you.

[bersaguy]

I am going to try and say something and it may not come out exactly right but I will try.

All my life from just a little boy I was always taught to listen to a police officer when they told you to do something because they were looking out for my best interest. So all my life I did that. I am now almost 70 years old and I still listen when a police officer gives me an order or directs me to do something. Some time in the past things began to change. I'm not sure who made the first move to change it but somewhere the police attitudes changed and instead of being the ones you trust all of a sudden we can't trust them like we once did. Now with that said!

I also realize that the country in general is not the country I grew up in. I look at the Country and I see what some people would consider war zone between the police and the people that they have sworn to protect. With that said I have tried to look at it from a police officers which I know I cannot do completely but I can get so sight into it.

As I see it and this is just my opinion the people that the police have sworn and oath to protect in many ways have created the situation we have today and it is not just the younger generation causing this because in many large protests I see many grown ups with signs and raising hell. It is also in many cases is not a racial issue because in most all protests I have seen there are people of all races involved. Now with that said.

The police have gone on the defensive rather than the offensive. I'm not exactly sure when that happened either but it has definately gone that way. Now as I see it and this is just my opinion but I think if things don't change it is going to be dangerous for anyone to have an encounter with any LEO that may be having a bad day!. We already know the bad guy will shoot you for the 5 dollars you have in your pocket!!! If we can't call the police for help with out fear of getting shot what are law biding citizens to do?..............................

[tennessee1911]

When the point is reached that the only condition for deadly force is the objectively reasonable fear of the officer, then there will be few if any limits on when a cop can kill.

Once that rubicon is crossed it will be bad for everyone. 

Look at it this way, for a cop it is easy to manufacture an explanation for fear, particularly when there is the random ambush of officers happening out there.

But contrary to the deeply held belief by us all about threats to cops, there is risk out there. When someone chooses to be a police officer, he assumes that risk. That’s his choice. The rest of the public isn't  given that option.

[bersaguy]

After watching the video above and I were the officer when he made the move to quickly approach me that would very possibly been when I shot him because of a purely and overly aggressive nature being shown. No doubt the other person in the vehicle was probably loading the rifle and the guy was stalling long enough to get it done. I am very sorry for that officer and I do agree that in this day in time there is no plain traffic stops where there is zero danger with all of the crazy people out there. I guess that is why when Gallatin PD or Hendersonville PD does a traffic stop nothing transpires at the stop till backup has arrived. Just about every traffic stop I have witnessed in both of those towns there is always 2 or more police cars at the scene and I can't blame them at all these days................jmho

[Chucktshoes]

8 hours ago, tennessee1911 said:

When the point is reached that the only condition for deadly force is the objectively reasonable fear of the officer, then there will be few if any limits on when a cop can kill.

Once that rubicon is crossed it will be bad for everyone. 

Look at it this way, for a cop it is easy to manufacture an explanation for fear, particularly when there is the random ambush of officers happening out there.

But contrary to the deeply held belief by us all about threats to cops, there is risk out there. When someone chooses to be a police officer, he assumes that risk. That’s his choice. The rest of the public isn't  given that option.

That rubicon has already been crossed and it is bad for everyone. 

As far as the threats to cops, they aren't nearly as imminent as certain factions like to portray. Policing in this country is actually a reasonably safe job. It doesn't even make the top 10 for on the job deaths (and over half of them are auto accidents). Even with the targeted ambushes of officers you have to go back many decades to find years with comparable raw numbers of officer deaths. When you take into account that there were far, far fewer police officers at that time, it makes the current rates that much lower. 

Edited July 30, 2017 by Chucktshoes