AR Pistol vs. NFA SBR?

[DaveTN]

As I understand it I can legally build an AR pistol if I buy a pistol lower and it isn’t NFA?

I have been looking for a used PLR-16 or a Diamondback AR Pistol for a trunk gun. However, I see several used AR pistols for sale locally and the prices have come down drastically. So my question is.. If I buy one of these used builds sold as a pistol, and I am stopped, how can I prove it’s a pistol and not a SBR? Are there markings or something? I don’t want to deal with any NFA/BATF drama.

[Ronald_55]

One way is to not put a brace on it. 

Any lower built as a pistol first is a legal pistol, though few say pistol on them.

 

I thought of having a lower inscribed like people have serial numbers put on stuff.

[nightrunner]

Basically you have to depend on the officer that pulls you over knowing the law or you risk having to prove him wrong at some point in time, which is usually best saved for the courtroom.

However, if it's not out in the open, they won't even know about it. I've never had my vehicle searched but I don't do stuff that would give them a reason to. 

And if/when I hand them my HCP and if/when they ask if I'm armed, truck/trunk guns don't count to me.

 

Also, nothing illegal about carrying a 16" carbine. Or transporting an NFA item "to the range".

Edited July 2, 2017 by nightrunner

[Oh Shoot]

6 hours ago, DaveTN said:

As I understand it I can legally build an AR pistol if I buy a pistol lower and it isn’t NFA?

I have been looking for a used PLR-16 or a Diamondback AR Pistol for a trunk gun. However, I see several used AR pistols for sale locally and the prices have come down drastically. So my question is.. If I buy one of these used builds sold as a pistol, and I am stopped, how can I prove it’s a pistol and not a SBR? Are there markings or something? I don’t want to deal with any NFA/BATF drama.

I'd be more worried about buying a used AR pistol just because you have nothing beyond the seller's word that it didn't use a lower that was originally a rifle. Even if it were, and though of course it's duck soup for ATF to check if it were originally configured that way for retail sale, extremely long odds on being brought to bear for that.

Ultimately, as with any charge, burden of proof is on the accuser, not the accused, and except for that one brouhaha in middle TN years ago with the gang type feller with a Draco I think it was, this sort of thing just doesn't seem to happen here as TN agencies seem to accede to federal standards for firearm classification. (except for that under 12" barrel for a handgun definition thang here, which has apparently never been tested in court, and most everyone seems to make their AR pistols 11.5" or shorter anyway).

And actually the brace/SBR thing doesn't seem to have been a prob in any state that allows "assault pistols" in the first place.

- OS

Edited July 2, 2017 by Oh Shoot

[btq96r]

This: http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ar-15-complete-classic-pistol-lower-no-magazine-black.html

Plus this:http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-8-5-pistol-length-5-56-nato-1-7-melonite-barrel-and-7-2a-armament-keymod-rail-with-bcg-ch.html

Equals: a brand new trunk ready AR pistol for only $430 plus shipping and transfer fees, and no worry about legal hassle (just keep your invoice with the S/N and product description in the truck).  You can spoil yourself with a cheek rest for it, and a sling to enable you to lock it out for as stable an aim as can be.

 

Edited July 2, 2017 by btq96r

[nightrunner]

Remember a forward vertical grip makes an AOW/NFA item. Angled foregrip is ok though.

[Esko 270]

11 minutes ago, nightrunner said:

Remember a forward vertical grip makes an AOW/NFA item. Angled foregrip is ok though.

I'm still green on all the NFA garbage,  but with a few things in jail I thought I knew the important stuff. My little brain just can't comprehend how they come up with these laws.  Thanks for the info. 

[Danger Rane]

14 hours ago, Ronald_55 said:

One way is to not put a brace on it. 

As long as it's a brace and not an actual butt stock it should be fine. Most of the companies selling the braces are including a hard copy print out of the most recent ATF opinion on the braces which states it is in fact ok to shoulder a brace and still have it count as a pistol, not an SBR. It's highly recommended that you carry that with your pistol in the event you have a run in with an LEO not up to speed on the latest "opinion". 

[DaveTN]

17 hours ago, btq96r said:

This: http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ar-15-complete-classic-pistol-lower-no-magazine-black.html

Plus this:http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-8-5-pistol-length-5-56-nato-1-7-melonite-barrel-and-7-2a-armament-keymod-rail-with-bcg-ch.html

Equals: a brand new trunk ready AR pistol for only $430 plus shipping and transfer fees, and no worry about legal hassle (just keep your invoice with the S/N and product description in the truck).  You can spoil yourself with a cheek rest for it, and a sling to enable you to lock it out for as stable an aim as can be.

 

Thanks for those links. They are pretty much sold out of complete pistol uppers (I assume because of the holiday sales) but I’ll keep that in mind.

[nightrunner]

9 hours ago, Esko 270 said:

I'm still green on all the NFA garbage,  but with a few things in jail I thought I knew the important stuff. My little brain just can't comprehend how they come up with these laws.  Thanks for the info. 

The vertical foregrip changes it from a weapon designed to be held and fired with one hand to one designed for two hands.

 

Not addressing you in particular but the industry in general, the AR pistol is exactly what the spirit of the law was trying to outlaw when they created the SBR law, weapons firing rifle powered cartridges that could be concealed. We should all consider ourselves lucky they have allowed them at all without paying for a tax stamp.

[btq96r]

Thanks for those links. They are pretty much sold out of complete pistol uppers (I assume because of the holiday sales) but I’ll keep that in mind.

Must have been short supply and/or some quick grabs. The upper was available when I linked it, and I chose that one as it was the only complete upper under 10.5" in stock.

Keep an eye out, that upper had the good BCG with it.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk. OhShoot very much likes to know when we're using Tapatalk.

[Oh Shoot]

18 hours ago, nightrunner said:

Remember a forward vertical grip makes an AOW/NFA item. ...

Unless the pistol is 26" or more in overall length, then it's okay, if not concealed on the person.

17 hours ago, Esko 270 said:

I'm still green on all the NFA garbage,  but with a few things in jail I thought I knew the important stuff. My little brain just can't comprehend how they come up with these laws.

 All the nitpicking rules are simply ATF attempting to interpret the definitions within the two major firearms laws passed in 1934 and 1968. Got necessarily weirder in the last few decades as firearm tech evolved and clashed with the antique laws.

- OS

Edited July 3, 2017 by Oh Shoot

[jeff43]

On 7/2/2017 at 8:45 AM, Ronald_55 said:

One way is to not put a brace on it. 

Any lower built as a pistol first is a legal pistol, though few say pistol on them.

 

I thought of having a lower inscribed like people have serial numbers put on stuff.

How would I go about getting pistol engraved on my AR lower,and who would be a good person to do it?Would you just have PISTOL engraved below the model and serial number?

Thanks Jeff

[Ronald_55]

3 minutes ago, jeff43 said:

How would I go about getting pistol engraved on my AR lower,and who would be a good person to do it?Would you just have PISTOL engraved below the model and serial number?

Thanks Jeff

Jeff

I checked around at one point, but the only people I found close to me in East TN doing stuff like that did not do guns.

You might check http://www.tnarmsco.com/engraving-service/  I know TN Arms is a member here, but I have not ever used them. I just saw their engraving service info recently.

 

Anyone used their service?

 

[jeff43]

What would you put on it, just PISTOL?

[Ronald_55]

I dunno. That would probably be ok. You could be comical and put "This is a Pistol, has ALWAYS been and will ALWAYS be a Pistol" Or "Dear ATF, Don't shot my dog, this is a pistol"

[jeff43]

1 hour ago, Ronald_55 said:

I dunno. That would probably be ok. You could be comical and put "This is a Pistol, has ALWAYS been and will ALWAYS be a Pistol" Or "Dear ATF, Don't shot my dog, this is a pistol"

Yeah,lol.Or REMAIN CALM.... IT'S ONLY A  SEMI AUTO PISTOL