WSJ article on EMP's June 8 2017

[Jamie Jackson]

Well now...if this isn't something to wake up to this morning...

https://www.wsj.com/articles/north-korea-dreams-of-turning-out-the-lights-1496960987

 

While I believe we would all acknowledge this is a low probability event, especially compared to a personal or natural disaster impacting us, it's still food for thought imho.

Obviously I thought of Forstchen's "One Second After" and myriad other post apocalyptic fiction novels. But even the WSJ acknowledges that a relatively low level nuclear yield , crudely delivered, could have a pretty nasty impact on our electric grid...which we (the U.S.) should have hardened long ago.

It doesn't hurt to have food, water, medications, and some alternative means of accomplishing every day tasks at hand. Garden? Medical gear and the knowledge to use it? Quality safe water...a Berkey perhaps?

It's all things we need everyday anyway. 

Low probability for sure...bad consequences if  it happens.

[Erik88]

If this were to happen and the impact is actually as severe as predicted(70-90% of population deceased) then it really doesn't matter what you have stashed. Very few of us would survive.

I think it would really boil down to how quickly the military could respond to keep the peace, assuming their equipment isn't also fried. Even then I don't have high hopes.

I agree with having some provisions at home though. 

Edited June 9, 2017 by Erik88

[Jamie Jackson]

I agree that the devastation potential would be remarkable Erik. 

It seems that I recall reading some time ago that our military did initiate a "hardening" against such a potential, but moved away from it as the Global War on Terror grew in size. Perhaps some of our more recent military members could chime in on this.

Regardless I personally wouldn't count on Government assistance. Our personal experience with Katrina demonstrated what a Charlie Foxtrot that would be on even a regional event.

Low probability potential for sure and currently off the radar for many folks as the Stock Market is booming and jobs are starting to come back.

 

As regards our dependency on technology... We had a disaster drill at work very recently...moulage, triage and injuries related to a weather event. I was surprised by the number of medical professionals that mentioned something along the lines of "I have an app that would help in this type of scenario".... Really? 

Even in a regional event loss of power and cell service disappear relatively easily, definitely quickly. Kinda nice to have a plan, knowledge, and skills ahead of time...

[Ronald_55]

This is one of the worst non-natural scenarios. It leaves everyone alive and in place with little chance of re-supply. If the EMP is widespread, then there will be no government or military help. If the military can stay intact personnel wise, it will be fending for itself, not helping out. More than likely though, a lot of the personnel will be sent home or leave on their own. They will want to get home to family. With electronics down the brass will have just as hard of a time keeping them fed as the rest of the people. 

There will be waves of deaths. The first wave will be those ill and infirm that need direct medical attention or medication that they cannot get. This will be interspersed with deaths due to crime and rioting. The next wave will be more based on the struggle to secure resources. People killing people to keep or take food, water, and valued locations. The final wave will be those who die due to lack of food, water, and hygiene. There is no telling how long wave 2 and 3 will really last if the power stays off. Different areas will last longer or shorter due to population density, close food supplies, and the ability to gather, grow,  or raise more food.

At least in a far reaching and fast moving pandemic or zombie event, resources are left intact. This means for at least a while people can use vehicles, generators, and other electricity based items to move about or improve their condition. It also means that if the death rate is high, that there are many less people to fight over the resources. These items will run out eventually, but it gives survivors time to coordinate plans. 

And yes, I think about these scenarios more than I probably should. Blame the Boy Scouts that taught me to "Always be prepared". 

Edited June 9, 2017 by Ronald_55

[Billrube]

EMP is what I believe to be the biggest possible big SHTF scenario. There is the direct threat of a nuke popped in the atmosphere but solar flares can to the same thing. 

It does pay to prepare and I hope that no EMP type event ever occurs. I travel for a living and could be a long way from home with the U.S. goes black. 

In an instant we would back to the 1800's. When you actually begin to think that scenario all the way through it's pretty stark.

 

Edited June 10, 2017 by Billrube

[xtriggerman]

I had done some reading on near death experiences and this particular book had some info that this woman was possibly exposed to that certainly seemed plausible about this very subject here. What she claims to have seen taking place after several nuclear detonations in the US was pretty interesting. Read the reviews...

https://www.amazon.com/There-No-Death-Extraordinary-Experience/dp/0966497058/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1497368994&sr=8-1&keywords=there+is+no+death

 

[Wingshooter]

11 hours ago, xtriggerman said:

I had done some reading on near death experiences and this particular book had some info that this woman was possibly exposed to that certainly seemed plausible about this very subject here. What she claims to have seen taking place after several nuclear detonations in the US was pretty interesting. Read the reviews...

https://www.amazon.com/There-No-Death-Extraordinary-Experience/dp/0966497058/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1497368994&sr=8-1&keywords=there+is+no+death

 

Interesting. I just read most of the reviews. I'm extremely curious about De Ja Vu now, lol. 

[Billrube]

I take the threat of EMP serious enough that my wife and I have discussed and have in place an emergency plan to get home from work in the event of an EMP. 

She works 30+ miles from home. I figure in an EMP event, we will 2 days minimum before panic sets in; maybe a week before the sheeple realize the gub'ment aint coming to help. 

We've gone over it and the good thing about my wife she understands the need to be prepared and takes such things pretty seriously. My kids do as well but her daughter looks at us if we have six heads and ten eyes when we discuss anything related to emergency preparedness. 

 

[Ronald_55]

21 minutes ago, Billrube said:

I take the threat of EMP serious enough that my wife and I have discussed and have in place an emergency plan to get home from work in the event of an EMP. 

She works 30+ miles from home. I figure in an EMP event, we will 2 days minimum before panic sets in; maybe a week before the sheeple realize the gub'ment aint coming to help. 

We've gone over it and the good thing about my wife she understands the need to be prepared and takes such things pretty seriously. My kids do as well but her daughter looks at us if we have six heads and ten eyes when we discuss anything related to emergency preparedness. 

 

My wife and kids just roll their eyes when I try to talk about it. Whatever family level planning that gets done is all on me. Not only that, but I have to keep it low key to stave off the arguments that I am paranoid. I remind them that at least paranoid people are prepared.

[Jamie Jackson]

Good discussion folks. fwiw I've spent the last few days in a very rural area of MS with no cell nor net access, so I'm catching up...

 

I believe what you guys are referring to is "Normalcy Bias". You guys probably are familiar with the concept, but for those that aren't it's essentially the belief that nothing bad will happen and things will continue as "Normal" even when confronted face to face with the event....because they always have...

Even Wikipedia states: "With a normalcy bias," writes one observer, "we project current conditions into the future. Normalcy bias is a form of denial where we underestimate the possibility and extent of a looming disaster even when we have incontrovertible evidence that it will happen. We assume that since a disaster never has occurred, then it never will occur. Consequently, we fail to prepare for a disaster and, when it does occur, we may be unable to deal with it."

This is an unfortunate yet prevalent phenomena, especially with such a low probability event that could bring about such a dire state.

 

I certainly hope, and Pray, such an event never comes to pass. But, imho, if we work towards making ourselves as independent as can reasonably be expected form the various systems of support, have and/or learn various skills such as gardening and canning/food storage, have the necessary equipment to live day to day and get us from point "A" to point "B" then we are less negatively impacted by even a local or regional disaster.

I have no desire to live in the mid 19th century...none! But I plan to maintain the best quality life that I can for as long as I can.

[Sunfish]

I would like to learn more about this and work on the transportation aspect. Being older I have seen some pretty lean times and very familiar with doing without.

[Ronald_55]

If you have a roughly pre-1980 vehicle, most of them do not have computer controls. So nothing to fry. You would be good to go on transpo.

[Spiffy]

On 6/9/2017 at 8:17 AM, Erik88 said:

If this were to happen and the impact is actually as severe as predicted(70-90% of population deceased) then it really doesn't matter what you have stashed. Very few of us would survive.

I think it would really boil down to how quickly the military could respond to keep the peace, assuming their equipment isn't also fried. Even then I don't have high hopes.

I agree with having some provisions at home though. 

They couldn't....maybe in a few of the major cities but with that many dead there wouldn't be enough soldiers to do much.  I think a lot of the books are way to "pie in the sky" on that aspect. 

[Grayfox54]

I re-read this and just wanted to throw a few things out there.

Society will begin to collapse almost immediately. Most people won't recognize an EMP. What they will know is that their phone, I-pads, laptops, etc won't work. Most have never lived without instant communication. Suddenly being cut off from information and not knowing what is happening will leave them angry, scared and frustrated. Arguments and fights will soon follow. I believe there will be chaos by the end of Day 1.

Pre-1980 gasoline vehicles will NOT run. An old fashioned ignition coil is nothing more than about a mile of very fine wire wrapped inside a housing. An EMP will over heat that coil and burn it out. Batteries don't handle EMPs well either. Wouldn't matter much anyway because thanks to government mandated ethanol, all the gas will go bad in about 3 to 6 months. 

What will run will be older diesel engines with straight mechanical fuel systems. Of course you'll have to be lucky enough to find one parked where you can either roll or push start it. Even then, if it has air brakes (most of these will), you'll have to have enough air left in the tanks to release them. What you're left with will be older farm tractors. Yeah, good luck finding one.

Just say that you're able to overcome all these problems and acquire a vehicle that runs. Well, then you become everybody's target. 

Of all the possible SHTF scenarios, an EMP event scares me the most. 

 

[monkeylizard]

Me too. Everything else is ( A ) localized (floods, hurricanes, small nuke attack) so the rest of the country/world can help, or ( B ) kills so many people (big nuke attack, massive disease outbreak) that there's not a whole lot left to worry about. All the people remaining with none of the systems needed to keep them alive would be one of the worst possible scenarios.

Remember: Never use up all of your ammunition. Always keep one bullet. Always.

[Wingshooter]

I have an old 1957 Ford 660 tractor. I can just see myself cruisin' down the road full speed  That, plus bicycles are my planned method of local transportation. If I'm working, I may be states away, so maybe I could find a horse to get home months later

I need to put my HAM handheld and some other things in a Faraday cage. There was a good thread on here years ago about how to build a DIY Faraday... I need to do some searching now.

[SWCUMBERLAND]

On 8/3/2017 at 12:02 PM, monkeylizard said:

Me too. Everything else is ( A ) localized (floods, hurricanes, small nuke attack) so the rest of the country/world can help, or ( B ) kills so many people (big nuke attack, massive disease outbreak) that there's not a whole lot left to worry about. All the people remaining with none of the systems needed to keep them alive would be one of the worst possible scenarios.

Remember: Never use up all of your ammunition. Always keep one bullet. Always.

No such thing as a "small" nuclear attack.  The third nuclear warshot will be the snowball that rains destruction on the rest of the planet. Survivable nuclear combat... horseradish and bulldozer.

 

 

 

[monkeylizard]

Sure there is. The Norks smuggle one in and detonate it locally. We can't nuke them back without soaking our allies in fallout, and possibly triggering a full scale retaliation by the Chinese or Sovie....er, the Russians. Or maybe ISIS gets in with a dirty bomb. Our response may be entirely conventional in either case and neither attack would devastate the whole nation, much less the world.

Edited December 16, 2017 by monkeylizard