Do I really want a Red Dot Sight RDS for carry?

[TGO David]

Lately, I have increasingly more been thinking about either sending a Glock 19 slide off to be milled for a Trijicon RMR, or buying a slide or perhaps even full handgun already equipped with a red dot sight.  I would like to hear from those of you who already have gone down this road.

I do not have problems sighting with traditional irons.  I do, however, love the way my red dots work on my carbines, SBRs and PDWs.  I think that I would like a red dot on a handgun equally well.

One option is perhaps purchasing another Sig P320C but this time getting the RX model with the Romeo1 sight already installed.

What do you guys have?  Post pics of your setup, if you want.  I'm sure that seeing them would push me over the edge.

 

[MacGyver]

You do in fact want a G19 MOS running an RMR. 

[TGO David]

32 minutes ago, MacGyver said:

You do in fact want a G19 MOS running an RMR. 

Do you have one?  I'm seriously torn between that setup, or one milled to set the RMR even lower, or a P320C-RX.

 

[Grand Torino]

I have one...been running it since 2012. I had the slide milled at here.  http://www.bowietacticalconcepts.com/

I have another on an M&P 9MM......it's strictly a fun gun hence no back up irons on this one.

[TGO David]

David does some really amazing work.  I'm "friends" with him on Facebook and follow along with his tactical builds as well as his fitness stuff.  Not that you could tell the latter by looking at me, but I do follow him.

I have a guy in Arizona working on a P320C grip module for me right now and he also offers machining services.  I may take him up on milling a G19 slide if I don't scratch this itch some other way first.

 

[KahrMan]

How quickly can you turn the sight on?  If you are drawing your carry weapon do you have time to turn the sight on?

 

The RMR that is on my Glock 40 takes a sec to turn on. 

[Steelharp]

My thinking is, for range time, anything goes, do what you want. But seriously, in a CQ life or death situation, does one consider sight acquisition? Seems practicing one hand point/shoot drills makes more sense to me.

Enlighten me. I've only had to present my weapon once, just to low ready, and dude ran off.

[TGO David]

1 hour ago, KahrMan said:

How quickly can you turn the sight on?  If you are drawing your carry weapon do you have time to turn the sight on?

 

 

Most of these things have a runtime measured in years at medium LED intensity, and many have a motion sensor to cut the LED off once you have the firearm off of your person at the end of the day.  I think if it were seriously a carry gun, I'd leave it turned on.  In the event that the LED croaks, you'd have your backup irons.

 

[TGO David]

8 minutes ago, Steelharp said:

My thinking is, for range time, anything goes, do what you want. But seriously, in a CQ life or death situation, does one consider sight acquisition? Seems practicing one hand point/shoot drills makes more sense to me.

Enlighten me. I've only had to present my weapon once, just to low ready, and dude ran off.

All the people I've shot were done so with iron sights.

 

[KahrMan]

6 minutes ago, TGO David said:

Most of these things have a runtime measured in years at medium LED intensity, and many have a motion sensor to cut the LED off once you have the firearm off of your person at the end of the day.  I think if it were seriously a carry gun, I'd leave it turned on.  In the event that the LED croaks, you'd have your backup irons.

 

Makes sense. 

[Steelharp]

6 minutes ago, TGO David said:

All the people I've shot were done so with iron sights.

 

So, you don't need the fancy sight.

[nightrunner]

Everything I have read, and I have done a lot of reading on the subject as I am very interested in this concept, is that if you are an accomplished marksman with irons, the RMR will give you an advantage. But if you aren't on that level with irons, you will be slower with a RMR than with irons.

[Grand Torino]

24 minutes ago, nightrunner said:

Everything I have read, and I have done a lot of reading on the subject as I am very interested in this concept, is that if you are an accomplished marksman with irons, the RMR will give you an advantage. But if you aren't on that level with irons, you will be slower with a RMR than with irons.

I'm not sure if I disagree with that or not. I found with aging eyesight the red dots worked well for me. Shooting with both eyes open was a big learning curve but while living in Tucson all I had was time to practice....most times 4 or 5 times a week. At any rate I've become used to shooting with them now and ain't bad for an old man. I'm confident with them and I guess it's all I can hope for.

[TNMTBik3r]

I love shooting my two Glock MOS pistols (34 and 41). My issue with the RDS is acquiring the dot from the draw is slower than irons, but it is mostly muscle memory as the RDS sits higher. I need to spend more time drawing, the front of the pistol is typically high and I have to bring it down to acquire the dot, but I switch between irons/dot frequently.

Accuracy vs Speed - from what I have seen shooting irons vs optic in competition and watching others, the RDS is typically more accurate but not necessarily any faster when transitioning targets.

Edited June 5, 2017 by jonathon1289

[Steelharp]

Red dots just don't work for me. Astigmatism makes them a red slash from 11 to 5 o'clock.

[MphsTiger1981]

I love shooting my two Glock MOS pistols (34 and 41). My issue with the RDS is acquiring the dot from the draw is slower than irons, but it is mostly muscle memory as the RDS sits higher. I need to spend more time drawing, the front of the pistol is typically high and I have to bring it down to acquire the dot, but I switch between irons/dot frequently.
Accuracy vs Speed - from what I have seen shooting irons vs optic in competition and watching others, the RDS is typically more accurate but not necessarily any faster when transitioning targets.

Just curious which RMRs do you have on your pistols? Also, which sights are you running and how well do they co-witness with the dots? I have read some of the MOS guns/red dot combinations don't match up well with some of the suppressor sights. Was this your experience as well?

[Esko 270]

I really like mine, it's the Trijicon Rmo 1 3.25. I put suppressor sights on as well. The only thing I don't like is that it does not sit flush on the sides of the slide, you have to buy the thin seal plate so the rubber seal doesn't hang over the side, you don't have to have this but it drove me nuts being able to see the seal. I did have to send it back once but have not had any trouble since. I believe it's like anything else, with plenty of practice you can get pretty good with it. You are more than welcome to try mine out.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Sidecarist]

I tried it. For me the issues were:

Seemed harder to aquire the dot than irons, this was a training issue for sure.

I seemed to want the dot perfect before firing, again training issue and to many years of bullseye using a dot.

Lighting issues, shooting from a dark area into a bright one or vice versa caused the dot to be too bright and flare, or be dim and very hard to find quickly.

Size and keeping it clean enough to not have lots of extra stuff on the lense.

I'm interested, but not quite to the point of needing it yet. Tiijicon HD, and Truglo TFX Pro sights are my choice now.

Maybe some day the dot will get me, but not quite yet. Like anything training will be the key.

Good luck, and p,ease keep us updated 

[TNMTBik3r]

9 hours ago, MphsTiger1981 said:

 

Just curious which RMRs do you have on your pistols? Also, which sights are you running and how well do they co-witness with the dots? I have read some of the MOS guns/red dot combinations don't match up well with some of the suppressor sights. Was this your experience as well?

 

Vortex Venom on the 34 and Burris D3 on the 41.

The 34 MOS does not have co-witness irons on it. I left the stock sights, but intend to remove the rear sight as the optic actually has a white bar that "replaces" the rear sight. Even though not co-witness I can make it work if the optic fails while shooting a stage.

The 41 has Dawson Precision sights and co-witness fine. I don't recall offhand what front height I went with, but basically used calipers to measure.

 

If anyone goes the RDS route, just be prepared to practice a lot as acquiring the sight picture is different. I don't have one milled, but suspect a milled slide would be the better choice to lower the dot and make it slightly more natural to acquire from draw.

[dcloudy777]

Speaking only of my own experience shooting 3-gun Open division with a dot-sighted pistol, your mileage may vary:

 

The handgun dot sight excels at hitting small (or distant) targets fast.  Things like TX stars, 4" plates, and distant steel transformed from painful to routine.

For full-size targets up close, even after a lot of practice with the dot, I was never any faster than irons, and often a touch slower because of height-over-bore and muscle memory shooting irons.  And that's almost certainly the kind of shooting I'll need to do if (God forbid) I end up pulling the trigger for keeps on the street.

So in summary, for me, for a carry gun, the RDS isn't worth it.

Now, as the tech improves, the sights get even more bulletproof, weather/foreign object resistant, and maybe we start to see things like integral RDS, where the battery, electronics, and wind age/elevation adjustments are built into the slide, and only the  sight window sticks up, and that dot starts to appear right where the front sight used to be.... that might mean a whole new ball game.

Edited June 5, 2017 by dcloudy777

[res308]

They can mill your slide, or sell you one of theirs. Unlike the MOS, they mill the slide precisely for the RDS you choose, and it sits lower in the slide. I'm still saving for one, but I've heard nothing but good things so far.

[nightrunner]

Gen2 Trijicon RMR is supposed to be announced officially today.

[MemHeli]

On 6/4/2017 at 6:43 PM, Grand Torino said:

I have one...been running it since 2012. I had the slide milled at here.  http://www.bowietacticalconcepts.com/

I have another on an M&P 9MM......it's strictly a fun gun hence no back up irons on this one.

whomever you've got doing your stipling is doing an excellent job!

 

[nightrunner]

31 minutes ago, MemHeli said:

whomever you've got doing your stipling is doing an excellent job!

 

Looks like Bowie Tacticals work, he's been doing it for a lot longer than most guys out there.

[Grand Torino]

6 hours ago, nightrunner said:

Looks like Bowie Tacticals work, he's been doing it for a lot longer than most guys out there.

Bowie Tactical did my slides but I actually did the stippling. It only took me 1...no 2...no 5 attempts before I got two that turned out good.