Park Events, trying to Ban Guns?

[vontar]

Oak Ridge Secret City Festival  is trying to ban guns.  This appears to have been posted yesterday, I just saw it today.

 

" The Festival is free - but there is a gate. No Coolers, No Outside Alcohol, No Weapons, No Drugs, No Pets Bags will be searched "

 

another person posted

 

Quote

TCA 39-17-1311 states

(a) It is an offense for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, with the intent to go armed, any weapon prohibited by § 39-17-1302(a), not used solely for instructional, display or sanctioned ceremonial purposes, in or on the grounds of any public park, playground, civic center or other building facility, area or property owned, used or operated by any municipal, county or state government, or instrumentality thereof, for recreational purposes.

(b) (1) Subsection (a) shall not apply to the following persons:

(H) (i) Persons possessing a handgun, who are authorized to carry the handgun pursuant to § 39-17-1351, while within or on a public park, natural area, historic park, nature trail, campground, forest, greenway, waterway, or other similar public place that is owned or operated by the state, a county, a municipality, or instrumentality of the state, a county, or municipality;

(TCA 39-17-1351 being the Handgun Carry Permit law)

In the State Attorney General Opinion 15-63, it states "The statute does not make any exceptions for facilities that are owned by a county or municipality but are operated under contract by a nonprofit corporation or other non-governmental entity. It makes no exception for facilities that charge admission or user fees or for facilities that have fences or other barriers to control ingress and egress. Applicability of the statute is not limited to normal or customary hours of operation of the facilities, and there is no exception for facilities that may be temporarily used for special events with limited attendance."

The festival website lists the festival as being run by Celebrate Oak Ridge, a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization. The opinion also mentions "fences of other barriers" (referring to the "gate" in the original post).

So my final question is does this ban apply to all, and appear to be in violation of Tennessee Law, or will handgun permit holders be allowed access while legally carrying a weapon?

 

They came back with

 

Quote

Secret City Festival Proof of valid permits is required.

 

 

Seriously if it is concealed no one will know, and no reason to volunteer and advertise the permit.

 

If you have facebook, here is the link https://www.facebook.com/SecretCityFestival/

 

[Garufa]

So basically, if you have a permit to carry which is already required by law, then you're good to go.  Produce said permit if requested.

[DaveTN]

1 hour ago, vontar said:

" The Festival is free - but there is a gate. No Coolers, No Outside Alcohol, No Weapons, No Drugs, No Pets Bags will be searched "

  Just have your pets put your gun in their bag. 

[300winmag]

Most of those type of events glance in women's purses.  If there are not metal detectors, just conceal and don't worry about it.  You have a permit and you are at a park so you should be legal carrying.

[bersaguy]

If the law in the state of Tennessee states that if you have a legal carry permit and you can carry it in a location such as this I would carry if I planned on attending it.

It's about time the envelope is pushed to show these people that the state law trumps their postings. If folks keep backing down what good is the law? I carry is several parks around Gallatin that were or are posted when I take Kasey out to the park to let her run around some where pets are allowed.

[peejman]

Unless they're wanding folks, even this guy has nothing to worry about. 

 

[ken56]

On ‎6‎/‎2‎/‎2017 at 6:25 PM, bersaguy said:

If the law in the state of Tennessee states that if you have a legal carry permit and you can carry it in a location such as this I would carry if I planned on attending it.

It's about time the envelope is pushed to show these people that the state law trumps their postings. If folks keep backing down what good is the law? I carry is several parks around Gallatin that were or are posted when I take Kasey out to the park to let her run around some where pets are allowed.

I have to agree with bersaguy on this. Those that are saying to just conceal are firstly advocating breaking the law in carrying past a posted no guns sign.......BUT this is not private property and in these cases if we as gun owners don't start letting venues like this know that they cannot just post a gun buster sign any 'ol place they wish to have a festival that's contrary to state law we accomplish nothing in advancing legal carry by law abiding people. This is exactly where an opportunity exists to exercise your rights and openly display that right.

[analog_kidd]

In years past, I don't recall there being gates anywhere except the concert area. I don't think anyone will be giving anyone a second look except for that area. Plus, as has already been noted, it's perfectly legal with your permit. The City is probably just trying to make people think twice before carrying.

[Oh Shoot]

3 hours ago, analog_kidd said:

In years past, I don't recall there being gates anywhere except the concert area. I don't think anyone will be giving anyone a second look except for that area. Plus, as has already been noted, it's perfectly legal with your permit. The City is probably just trying to make people think twice before carrying.

 

Trot on in open carrying and report, eh?

- OS

[Just2Honor]

Ascend Ampitheater in Nashville has large gun buster signs on the gates but it was built by Metro and sold to citizens as a "park".  Now they say it is run by somebody else so it's not a park and the vendor has the say so.   Manchester City Parks still have "no guns" on their signs, too 

[bersaguy]

32 minutes ago, Just2Honor said:

Ascend Ampitheater in Nashville has large gun buster signs on the gates but it was built by Metro and sold to citizens as a "park".  Now they say it is run by somebody else so it's not a park and the vendor has the say so.   Manchester City Parks still have "no guns" on their signs, too 

If it was changed from a park to an Ampitheater and is not under the control of the city any longer then the people of Nashville need to find out why it was not brought up and announced to the people before it was changed from a city park to a private  operation if it was sold to the people of Nashville as a public park. As far as Manchester goes, they probably just don't enforce them and will take them down eventually. I have a few friends down that way and they carry in all the parks down there now with no issues. 

[300winmag]

You're not breaking the law if you have a handgun carry permit and you walk past a 'no gun' sign at a park.  The signs only apply to people who do not have permits.  So yes that is why I said I would just conceal at one of those events and quietly carry as long as you're not having to walk through a metal detector.

[JayC]

On 6/5/2017 at 5:46 PM, Just2Honor said:

Ascend Ampitheater in Nashville has large gun buster signs on the gates but it was built by Metro and sold to citizens as a "park".  Now they say it is run by somebody else so it's not a park and the vendor has the say so.   Manchester City Parks still have "no guns" on their signs, too 

Somebody is lying to you   Because here is the Metro GIS parcel information:

http://maps.nashville.gov/ParcelViewer/?parcelID=09306004100

39-17-1311bHi:

Quote

Persons possessing a handgun, who are authorized to carry the handgun pursuant to ง 39-17-1351, while within or on a public park, natural area, historic park, nature trail, campground, forest, greenway, waterway, or other similar public place that is owned or operated by the state, a county, a municipality, or instrumentality of the state, a county, or municipality;

Metro government labels the property as a park, it's a park, they can't under state law 'rent' the area out to get around the carry in parks law.

[bersaguy]

I found this while researching the Ascend Ampitheater and found it interesting. If you read it carefully you will find that it is located within the Riverfront Park complex which makes it part of the park. That means it cannot be operated by a private operator by law..........JMHO

The Ascend Amphitheater was unveiled during a media conference today in Nashville.

“Harmonizing the Ascend brand with Nashville’s beautiful new amphitheater is paramount to achieving our strategic intent of being recognized as Nashville’s credit union,” Ascend Federal Credit Union President and CEO Caren Gabriel said.

In the heart of the new Riverfront Park development along the Cumberland River, the Ascend Amphitheater is expected to accommodate 6,800 people. It will host various forms of entertainment – from concerts to comedy shows – and it will be the summer home of the Nashville Symphony. The 12-acre park will be open daily on non-event days and will include trails, a dog park and gardens. The amphitheater is slated for completion this summer.

[monkeylizard]

There no question that it's a park. The issue is that Nashville and its attorney have told the legislature to get bent and it's going to take case law to resolve this issue. That means someone is going to have to go to Ascend with a ticket for admission and be denied admission because of their legal firearm, or be charged with violating 39-17-1359. Then they'll need to have deep pockets to take it to trial.

Edited June 7, 2017 by monkeylizard

[bersaguy]

49 minutes ago, monkeylizard said:

There no question that it's a park. The issue is that Nashville and its attorney have told the legislature to get bent and it's going to take case law to resolve this issue. That means someone is going to have to go to Ascend with a ticket for admission and be denied admission because of their legal firearm, or be charged with violating 39-17-1359. Then they'll need to have deep pockets to take it to trial.

That is why I never plan on attending any of these type of events. My pockets are very shallow and I don't want to get blown up by some idiot wearing a vest full of ball bearings and something that makes it go pop that will be standing in a crowd waiting to get in and desides it's time to go get his virgins!!

Yea I am kinda of a pessimist about some things and thats just one of them.

Edited June 7, 2017 by bersaguy

[JayC]

3 hours ago, monkeylizard said:

There no question that it's a park. The issue is that Nashville and its attorney have told the legislature to get bent and it's going to take case law to resolve this issue. That means someone is going to have to go to Ascend with a ticket for admission and be denied admission because of their legal firearm, or be charged with violating 39-17-1359. Then they'll need to have deep pockets to take it to trial.

The case law is coming, TFA still has a lawsuit against Knoxville, then it will be settled law.  After that I doubt Nashville will force the issue.

[300winmag]

If you conceal and there are no metal detectors, no one will know and there won't be any problem.  You aren't breaking the law so why worry.  I would not let event rules keep me from protecting myself when you are following state law.

You do realize if this becomes more of an issue that event organizers can have metal detectors under this new public property firearm law?  So I wouldn't make too big of a deal out of it and just conceal or you are going to see metal detectors everywhere you go. 

Edited June 7, 2017 by 300winmag

[tacops]

On 6/2/2017 at 4:31 PM, vontar said:

The Festival is free - but there is a gate. No Coolers, No Outside Alcohol, No Weapons,

...and nobody showing up either.

[peejman]

11 hours ago, tacops said:

...and nobody showing up either.

And therein lies the rub. People who won't go to such an event because of signs or metal detectors represent such a small fraction of the total that they're of no consequence to event promoters. 

[bersaguy]

1 hour ago, peejman said:

And therein lies the rub. People who won't go to such an event because of signs or metal detectors represent such a small fraction of the total that they're of no consequence to event promoters. 

I have to disagree with a part of this. About a year ago Gallatin had some type of Fair on the Square event and they had no gun signs up everywhere and at each gate that people had to pass through to get on the square. There was also a Gallatin police officer at each gate. There was quit a few people that expressed their views about the gun signs and turned around and left. It was Street Fair they had been having for many years  And last year was the first year for the signs and it had the lowest attendance since the fair began. The Street vendors were upset about the loss in revenue and they asked the promoter what he has changed and he said the only thing different was the no gun signs. I know 2 vendors that told him if he was going to do that this year they would not be attending. There was enough of a difference in attendance that the vendors were able to notice something was wrong.

It is coming back again in August so waiting to see if the signs get put up again this year.

[monkeylizard]

That's the kind of thing that really bugs me. Nashville does the same thing with Oktoberfest in Germantown. Nowhere in the TCA is a local government given the power to post public streets, and nowhere in the TCA is a local government given the power to give that power to a private entity. Does anyone know of any case law with Memphis' metal detectors on Beale Street being challenged?

Edited June 11, 2017 by monkeylizard

[300winmag]

From what I understand Beale Street property association has some arrangement with the city of Memphis but I still can't see how metal detectors are put up on a public street frisking everyone and that is legal.  You can avoid the whole frisking by going down there before night time but still it is very odd that is done on a public street. 

Now that our bright lightbulb politicians and the NRA lobbyist 'reformed' our gun laws in such a 'great' way this year, in theory, metal detectors can be set up at any public property and you can be disarmed.  So i'm sure this new law will do nothing but encourage metal detectors everywhere like TSA at the airports.  I guess it makes people feel safe and does nothing to make people safer.  Funny how these government clowns never thought of the need to run everyone through metal detectors when it was 'illegal' for us to carry in a bunch of locations in Tennessee.  It proves all along they worry more about good folks carrying than the common street criminals.

Edited June 11, 2017 by 300winmag

[peejman]

2 hours ago, 300winmag said:

From what I understand Beale Street property association has some arrangement with the city of Memphis but I still can't see how metal detectors are put up on a public street frisking everyone and that is legal.  You can avoid the whole frisking by going down there before night time but still it is very odd that is done on a public street. 

 

Wait, what?!?

You have to pass through metal detectors to access a public street as a normal daily thing? 

Really?

[bersaguy]

That would be like putting metal detectors on the sidewalks of Lower Broadway in Nashville !! I'm sure that would work with the crowds we had this past weekend huh????

I wonder how well that works during Mardi Gras????................  

Edited June 12, 2017 by bersaguy