Report provides details from San Bernardino shooting

[Erik88]

http://www.guns.com/2017/05/27/report-details-gun-battle-between-san-bernardino-suspects-and-police/

Pretty interesting details from the 2015 terrorist attack. I read the first 18 of the 55 page report.  At one point an officer describes having his weapon malfunction and being distracted while trying to fix it. 

 

[Garufa]

55 pages!  Why don't you finish reading it and report back with a bullet-point list of key findings.  

Here's direct link to the report:  http://14544-presscdn-0-64.pagely.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/5-25-OIS-REPORT-FATAL-DECEMBER-2-TERRORIST-ATTACK.pdf

Edited May 31, 2017 by Garufa

[MP5_Rizzo]

Is there any mention of the instruments crime used, surely no assault catfish carcasses were found?

[Erik88]

24 minutes ago, Garufa said:

55 pages!  Why don't you finish reading it and report back with a bullet-point list of key findings.  

Here's direct link to the report:  http://14544-presscdn-0-64.pagely.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/5-25-OIS-REPORT-FATAL-DECEMBER-2-TERRORIST-ATTACK.pdf

I'm working on it! Some interesting facts

• countless cops reported running out of ammunition(some for their handguns and some for their AR's). 
• Multiple cops experienced weapon malfunctions(skip to page 28 for Mini-14 malfunction)
• the same cop that had the malfunction also ran out of ammo. Another officer gave him a spare magazine. This supports the reason many departments want all their officers carrying the same weapon. 
• Each suspect was shot over 15 times, proof that there are not many 1 shot stoppers out there. 
• Bullets don't care where they go. The cops shot 440 rounds. Numerous houses and businesses were struck
• I was reminded of the North Hollywood shootout back in the 90's when most of the cops only had sidearms. AR's made a huge difference this time.
• the suspects were not great shots, thank god. Of the 81 rounds they fired at police, only 1 hit an officer. He lived.

I know we don't have many cops here but I thought it sheds some light on what takes place during a situation like this.

[bersaguy]

1 hour ago, Erik88 said:

I'm working on it! Some interesting facts

• countless cops reported running out of ammunition(some for their handguns and some for their AR's). 
• Multiple cops experienced weapon malfunctions(skip to page 28 for Mini-14 malfunction)
• the same cop that had the malfunction also ran out of ammo. Another officer gave him a spare magazine. This supports the reason many departments want all their officers carrying the same weapon. 
• Each suspect was shot over 15 times, proof that there are not many 1 shot stoppers out there. 
• Bullets don't care where they go. The cops shot 440 rounds. Numerous houses and businesses were struck
• I was reminded of the North Hollywood shootout back in the 90's when most of the cops only had sidearms. AR's made a huge difference this time.
• the suspects were not great shots, thank god. Of the 81 rounds they fired at police, only 1 hit an officer. He lived.

I know we don't have many cops here but I thought it sheds some light on what takes place during a situation like this.

The suspects were not great shots, thank god. Of the 81 rounds they fired at police, only 1 hit an officer. He lived.

They were not bad shots at the Christmas Party, reason being they were shooting and killing defenseless people. That was alot different when they have incoming hot lead. It kind of makes it a lot harder to hit your target when your dodging hot incoming lead. It does sound like the police officers do need more range time but it also sounds like the bad guys didn't stop shooting after they had been hit if they each we shot 15 times before they went down.

[i1afli]

1 hour ago, bersaguy said:

The suspects were not great shots, thank god. Of the 81 rounds they fired at police, only 1 hit an officer. He lived.

They were not bad shots at the Christmas Party, reason being they were shooting and killing defenseless people. That was alot different when they have incoming hot lead. It kind of makes it a lot harder to hit your target when your dodging hot incoming lead.

Good point. They hit 36 people at the party (12 dead and 24 wounded)...they probably hit someone almost every time they fired. Then basically missed every shot once someone started shooting back. 

[bud]

.

Edited June 26, 2017 by bud

[Wingshooter]

Long read but looks interesting 

Edited June 1, 2017 by Wingshooter

[Ronald_55]

I skimmed through most of this. one thing really sticks out. That is the fact that all the officers had to keep stressing the point that they feared for their lives, the lives of fellow officers, and the lives of bystanders. I am sure this is because they were told to in the hope to avoid idiots yelling that they over used force. In my mind if someone is shooting at officers (or anyone) then the officers have the right to return fire in as safe a manner as possible. 

While I have never been on either side of an encounter like this, and never hope to be, I do agree that it seems the officers do need additional range time. A weapon malfunctioning should be part of the drills they do regularly so that they know how to correct it quickly. Also, the massive amount of fire that the officers returned makes me think that they were not dealing with the stress well. 

I also am very surprised to see how many times officers went black on ammo. The last thing I want to do in a firefight is be the first one to run out of ammo. I would not consider 5 full mags for each AR and Mini 14 to be too much to carry with you in your vehicle. Also, I would think 3 magazines would be the minimum I would want on my belt for my service pistol. I think that the issued shotguns carrying only 4 rounds is weak also. Off the shelf Rem. 870 Tacticals hold 6 in the extended format.

I was surprised to see the Mini 14 as a issued rifle. Is this common on Police forces?

 

[Oh Shoot]

7 hours ago, Ronald_55 said:

....

I was surprised to see the Mini 14 as a issued rifle. Is this common on Police forces?

It was the predominant LEO and semi (and full) auto all around the country for many years. Apparently lots still around. Remember the rogue cop Christopher Dorner manhunt about three years ago? Lots of Mini14s in pictures of that big hoopla.

Seems there's still a lot of them in use in state prisons around the country too, maybe even some federal ones, dunno.

CDNN has probably made half its nut over the years selling the turn-ins.

A lot show up in pix of various European police forces too. Many of them full auto. Here's a bunch of them shown from the recent terrorist actions in France:

https://www.google.com/search?q=french+police+with+mini+14&newwindow=1&sa=X&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&ved=0ahUKEwi84OCPyJ3UAhWIK8AKHfszATgQsAQIMg&biw=1400&bih=679

- OS

Edited June 1, 2017 by Oh Shoot

[Garufa]

2 hours ago, Oh Shoot said:

It was the predominant LEO and semi (and full) auto all around the country for many years. Apparently lots still around. Remember the rogue cop Christopher Dorner manhunt about three years ago? Lots of Mini14s in pictures of that big hoopla.

Seems there's still a lot of them in use in state prisons around the country too, maybe even some federal ones, dunno.

CDNN has probably made half its nut over the years selling the turn-ins.

A lot show up in pix of various European police forces too. Many of them full auto. Here's a bunch of them shown from the recent terrorist actions in France:

https://www.google.com/search?q=french+police+with+mini+14&newwindow=1&sa=X&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&ved=0ahUKEwi84OCPyJ3UAhWIK8AKHfszATgQsAQIMg&biw=1400&bih=679

- OS

To add, regardless of accuracy questions, Mini-14's are just dandy little carbines.  They are light, nible, and get the job done that needs to be done.  I would even go so far as to say that ergonomically they are superior than other well-known carbines/rifles of the same caliber.

[Ronald_55]

I did not know they were used that much. Not bad guns. Just was wondering.

 

I think this guy is doing it wrong?

 

Edited June 2, 2017 by Ronald_55
Stupid pic link