Denied transfer.

[Kevinhil]

I haven't bought a firearm in almost 10 years, the last time I resided in Florida and I would delayed from time to time but never denied.

Recently I bought a pistol in Morristown and the transfer was denied. I appealed the decision immediately. Not quite 3 weeks later they were given a conditional proceed, in which they did transfer the pistol to me. 

I am a CDL holder with hazmat and tanker endorsements (don't utilize them though) and my only arrests were well over 15 years ago, both misdemeanors and non violent. 

The lady working at the gun store suggested that a get a vaf packet but she didn't have one, she also could not tell me how to obtain one.

So I have done a little bit digging in the internet and called the numbers I could find with no avail.

I'm not really sure what this packet is really supposed to do or how to get one.

 

HELP!!!! LOL.

[vontar]

I think there is a process to make sure those misdemeanors have been processed and completed. 

I think i have read that is some documents haven't been filed correctly that things and linger around and haunt you later.  Sorry clearly i am not a lawyer.

[Garufa]

What is a "vaf packet"?  Never heard of it. Never heard of any kind of "packet" to resolve such a situation.  

The state will send you a letter explaining the specific reason for the denial.  From there you get it fixed.

[TNWNGR]

45 minutes ago, Garufa said:

What is a "vaf packet"?  Never heard of it. Never heard of any kind of "packet" to resolve such a situation.  

The state will send you a letter explaining the specific reason for the denial.  From there you get it fixed.

http://www.recordgone.com/other-expungement-services/fbi-nics-vaf-upin.htm

Voluntary Appeals File request for expungement and issuance of a issuance of a PIN

[Garufa]

29 minutes ago, TNWNGR said:

http://www.recordgone.com/other-expungement-services/fbi-nics-vaf-upin.htm

Voluntary Appeals File request for expungement and issuance of a issuance of a PIN

Does this apply to TICS as well?

[TNWNGR]

1 hour ago, Garufa said:

Does this apply to TICS as well?

http://www.recordgone.com/other-expungement-services/fbi-nics-vaf-upin-faq.htm

Per the above article yes. From actual experience I don't know. What I do know is if you don't take the time to follow up on a case dismissal or ordered expungement in person then you might have an unpleasant surprise.

[Garufa]

You do understand that TICS is far more stringent than NICS, right?  Most of the time it's Tennessee denying, not the Feds.

I repeat my earlier statement:  the state will tell you the reason, you then fix it and probably will not have the problem again.  It is usually just as simple as getting a copy of the disposition from the jurisdiction in which the original offense occurred.

Point is what does recordgone.com know about TN issues and what do they charge to help?

Edited April 16, 2017 by Garufa

[Kevinhil]

The reason for my denial was Maryland refused to respond to repeated atemps by nics for clarification of case status.

Basically because Maryland is anti gun they refuse to help nics to do their job correctly and efficiently.

The vaf packet is supposed to somehow by pass this by keeping my information on hand and instead of putting my ss# on the background check form I would put an unique pin number that would be issued to me. 

[DaveTN]

Many of us have had this happen. From your description it sounds like there is no disposition listed for an arrest. The TBI was pretty much worthless in telling me what was going on. So instead of paying for a background check by the Feds; I applied for a C&R FFL. The BATF told me exactly what was going on and how to fix it.

Over 25 years ago I was arrested for having a gun in my car in Illinois. The case was dismissed, but apparently that information never got to the Feds. I bought guns in several states over those years and never had a problem.

The BATF explained to me that I would need to contact the Clerk of the Court where the case was and have the disposition submitted to the Feds. My daughter went to the Circuit Clerks Office where the case was and did that for me. They gave her notarized copies of the disposition to send to the BATF and gave her a second copy because they said I may need them again. They said they would resubmit to the Feds. I have made many gun purchases here in Tennessee since and not had a problem.

Mine was a dismissal so I didn’t need an expungement. If yours was a conviction you may need an expungement. When I found out what it was I told the TBI that it was a misdemeanor and wouldn’t stop a purchase anyway. They told me that just because it was a misdemeanor in Illinois; that didn’t mean it was a misdemeanor in Tennessee and they would have to look at it.

I didn’t want to pay for an expungement because I wasn’t convicted and it’s not something that makes the case disappear like many believe. But if you can’t get the original court to resubmit the disposition to the Feds, or the TBI has to take a look at your conviction; it’s something you may want to look into.

I know you may think this is happening because Maryland is anti-gun; but I doubt that is the case. To correct it they don’t have to know you are trying to buy a gun; this problem could come up in a background check for a job.

If it is possible for you or a family member to go to the Circuit Clerk (or Clerk of the Court, whatever they call it in Maryland) and have them resubmit it and give you/them notarized copies; I would try that first before I paid for an attorney.

[Oh Shoot]

15 hours ago, TNWNGR said:

http://www.recordgone.com/other-expungement-services/fbi-nics-vaf-upin-faq.htm

Per the above article yes. From actual experience I don't know. What I do know is if you don't take the time to follow up on a case dismissal or ordered expungement in person then you might have an unpleasant surprise.

I don't see TICS mentioned at all in that, everything is about the federal NICS?

- OS

[DaveTN]

37 minutes ago, Oh Shoot said:

I don't see TICS mentioned at all in that, everything is about the federal NICS?

Because that is usually where the problem is if there is no disposition. Of course if there is a disposition and TBI thinks it’s a disqualifier; they make the call and that could be tough/expensive to overcome.

The VAF link above is from an Attorney; here is a link about it from the FBI.

https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/nics/voluntary-appeal-file-video

 

[Oh Shoot]

47 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

Because that is usually where the problem is if there is no disposition. .

 

Not necessarily true, Dave. NICS will only hold up a transfer if the unresolved charge was clearly a disqualifying one. As we have seen,  TICS will zap it whether it was a disqualifying one or not.

So the question is in short, does TICS necessarily honor the federal VAF number once you receive one to put on 4473?

- OS

 

 

Edited April 16, 2017 by Oh Shoot

[DaveTN]

11 minutes ago, Oh Shoot said:

Not necessarily true, Dave. NICS will only hold up a transfer if the unresolved charge was clearly a disqualifying one. As we have seen,  TICS will zap it whether it was a disqualifying one or not.

NICS didn’t deny me; they just showed a charge with no disposition; I had bought guns for years, even in Illinois and Florida. The TBI zapped me because they saw a weapons charge and had to spend 4 days both times to determine whether or not it was a disqualifier. It wasn’t, but until I got a disposition entered into NICS it was going to continue to happen.

[Oh Shoot]

Just now, DaveTN said:

NICS didn’t deny me; they just showed a charge with no disposition; I had bought guns for years, even in Illinois and Florida. The TBI zapped me because they saw a weapons charge and had to spend 4 days both times to determine whether or not it was a disqualifier. It wasn’t, but until I got a disposition entered into NICS it was going to continue to happen.

Umm, "NICS" and "FBI" are synonymous in this situation, ya know.  And again, I understand all that.

But again, clearing up the original charge and getting a VAF number are not necessarily the same thing. You were able to get the paperwork done to show local disposition of the charge, which from then on would satisfy both NICS and TICS.

- OS

 

[DaveTN]

17 minutes ago, Oh Shoot said:

Umm, "NICS" and "FBI" are synonymous in this situation, ya know.  And again, I understand all that.

But again, clearing up the original charge and getting a VAF number are not necessarily the same thing. You were able to get the paperwork done to show local disposition of the charge, which from then on would satisfy both NICS and TICS.

- OS

 

I didn't type FBI. You are confused and causing others around you to become confused. 

[Oh Shoot]

Just now, DaveTN said:

I didn't type FBI. You are confused and causing others around you to become confused. 

Oopsie. Indeed you typed TBI, mea culpa.

But again, the question is that there seems to be a difference in getting the original charge cleared up with local paperwork on that end and getting a VAF number, and I just don't know that the VAF is some panacea for all TICS issues.

For example, it surely won't prevent TICS denying you a transfer because of any alcohol or drug related charge within the last year, even though NICS doesn't care about that unless it were a felony.

- OS

[Garufa]

1 hour ago, DaveTN said:

I didn't type FBI. You are confused and causing others around you to become confused. 

[Kevinhil]

I would gladly post a picture of the latter sent to me but I cannot resize it to fit the 2mb size limit.

 

[DaveTN]

What is it you are trying to post? Latter what?

 

[Oh Shoot]

25 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

What is it you are trying to post? Latter what?

 

I PM'd him to email it to me whatever exactly it is, to link offsite.

- OS

[Kevinhil]

I am a dumbass the didn't proofread my response, it was supposed to say letter. 

 

Oh shoot I sent you the "letter" which never gave a clear reason for the denial that I could find.

 

Thank you for your time and help. Happy Easter to everyone.

 

[Oh Shoot]

17 minutes ago, Kevinhil said:

...Oh shoot I sent you the "letter" which never gave a clear reason for the denial that I could find.

Here tiz, right click, "View Image", left click with + to see full size (in Windows anyway).

- OS

 

 

Edited April 17, 2017 by Oh Shoot

[Garufa]

Well, that letter is just about what I'd expect from bureaucrats.  They know damn well why you where denied but won't tell you.  

And some people wonder why there is so much disdain for the "justice" system.

[Kevinhil]

The good news is that I could pull up my criminal history in front of the ffl, after reviewing it they were comfortable with transferring the firearm to me.

 

But I still need to get this "vaf packet" to help me in the future.

[Kevinhil]

I almost forgot, thank you oh shoot.