High tension power towers as shelter?

[Ronald_55]

Is it just me, or does anyone else look at these and think they would be a great frame to build a raised platform shelter on in a grid down senerio?

[Rightwinger]

Your an immobile target at that point so unless you can stock months of consumables in a tank grade shelter, stay on the ground and stay mobile.

Unless its a Zombie Apocalypse, and then yeah, your golden.

[mikegideon]

They're real good at doing what they're designed to do. Not sure you could add much weight and wind load without causing the structure to fail.

[Grand Torino]

7 hours ago, mikegideon said:

They're real good at doing what they're designed to do. Not sure you could add much weight and wind load without causing the structure to fail.

This....while tornadoes are rare they remain a fact of life around here. After a tornado we had several years ago a few of these were destroyed near the Lawrence County-Maury County line. They we twisted like cork screws and then thrown over on their sides.

[peejman]

Yep. They're designed such that the tension in the wires helps stabilize them. They are less stable if the wires come down. 

They're also design for some ice load, so they can support additional weight, but putting any sort of shelter will increase the wind load dramatically, likely with unpleasant results. Then there's lightning to think about...  

[mikegideon]

3 hours ago, Grand Torino said:

This....while tornadoes are rare they remain a fact of life around here. After a tornado we had several years ago a few of these were destroyed near the Lawrence County-Maury County line. They we twisted like cork screws and then thrown over on their sides.

Most towers won't survive a tornado. They may be rated for 100 MPH winds with ice, but tornadoes have much higher wind speeds.

[Ronald_55]

Well tornados are extremely rare here in NE TN, but I had not thought out the lightning. Oops.

For their down sides, they do have the up side of normally being in clear cuts to allow you a field of view. That does expose you if the situation requires camouflage though,  but would give you a chance at wildlife making the crossing from side to side.

I agree that a nice block building with few windows would be preferable. If you have to get out away from everyone though that would not be available. The tower would give you a leg up on making a shelter even if it was just temporary or to be used as a hunting blind.

It all just depends on the nature of the disaster and the troubles you will face.

 

[jgradyc]

Here ya go. Put a camper in the back and you have a zombie-proof mobile home.  I've often wondered why this isn't the go-to vehicle in The Walking Dead. 

Zombies between here and your destination... no problem... take the wife and kids with you. Cars blocking the interstate... no problem... drive over them. 

[peejman]

15 hours ago, jgradyc said:

Here ya go. Put a camper in the back and you have a zombie-proof mobile home.  I've often wondered why this isn't the go-to vehicle in The Walking Dead. 

Zombies between here and your destination... no problem... take the wife and kids with you. Cars blocking the interstate... no problem... drive over them. 

10-15 miles per tank of gas might be a bit of a drawback... 

[Ronald_55]

 

16 hours ago, jgradyc said:

Here ya go. Put a camper in the back and you have a zombie-proof mobile home.  I've often wondered why this isn't the go-to vehicle in The Walking Dead. 

Zombies between here and your destination... no problem... take the wife and kids with you. Cars blocking the interstate... no problem... drive over them. 

What do you do if you get a flat? No way you are finding a new tire any time soon. lol

 

If you really want a good way to get around, just build you a bed on top of the back of this . Then you could use it for farming and construction where ever you end up. Still hard on gas. Holds 470 gallons though and burns around 27 gallons per hour. So you could drive 17 hours. Also, it can pull 50,000 pounds. It is meant for hard use, so the parts should last a while before you have to worry. If a car is in the way, just drag it out of the way.

But if you need speed, you might be out of luck. I can't find a speed rating on it.

 

Edited April 12, 2017 by Ronald_55

[MP5_Rizzo]

On 4/10/2017 at 9:51 PM, Ronald_55 said:

Is it just me, or does anyone else look at these and think they would be a great frame to build a raised platform shelter on in a grid down senerio?

Not sure how your going to protect this.  If your going to the trouble to construct something up there most that have a survival mentality would think you have something worth fighting over in an TEOTWAWKI situation.  Chances are good I could come across an oxy /acetylene torch.  If I can find that, chances are good I will find some plate steel to make an armored something to get me in long enough to have you tumbling down faster than the big bad wolf and a straw house.

17 hours ago, jgradyc said:

Here ya go.

I'm quite certain the following post were made in fun but if you were serious you better be coming up with a plan B.  I will admit this would be full on in the fun category for a while but, in reality chances are slim you will find one.  That is unless you happen across a location of a recent Monster Jam these thing are few and far between.  Not to mention they will not go to far on a tank of fuel.  These things really are 1 gallon or more per mile.  In addition you will be announcing your arrival from several miles away. I would think stealth would be an import method of operation in such times.

1 hour ago, Ronald_55 said:

While this has a lot in common with the monster truck it will run a long time when the tanks are topped off.  Current low sulfur diesel fuel has a horrible useful life when untreated.  Once again though, few and far between and in some areas practically non-existent.

[peejman]

5 hours ago, Ronald_55 said:

 

What do you do if you get a flat? No way you are finding a new tire any time soon. lol

 

If you really want a good way to get around, just build you a bed on top of the back of this . Then you could use it for farming and construction where ever you end up. Still hard on gas. Holds 470 gallons though and burns around 27 gallons per hour. So you could drive 17 hours. Also, it can pull 50,000 pounds. It is meant for hard use, so the parts should last a while before you have to worry. If a car is in the way, just drag it out of the way.

But if you need speed, you might be out of luck. I can't find a speed rating on it.

 

10-15 miles before the tracks wear through (on pavement) might be a drawback to this one.  

[gjohnsoniv]

Not to mention those aren't exactly speed demons, so 17 hours might not get you that far. 

[Ronald_55]

5 hours ago, MP5_Rizzo said:

Not sure how your going to protect this.  If your going to the trouble to construct something up there most that have a survival mentality would think you have something worth fighting over in an TEOTWAWKI situation.  Chances are good I could come across an oxy /acetylene torch.  If I can find that, chances are good I will find some plate steel to make an armored something to get me in long enough to have you tumbling down faster than the big bad wolf and a straw house.

 

I was more thinking of using one that is in a remote location. So as to get away from people. Hopefully that isolation would limit people showing up with torches and armored siege wagons. My main goal on one would be to setup a (relatively) quick shelter that is far from others so as to stage for whatever you next plan could be. 

Though it would not be a 15 minute job, you could take down some local logs and create a platform on the cross members. If you wanted to go a little more permanent, you could lash logs on to be walls and a roof. the idea is a raised shelter to keep you safe from zombies, wildlife, or to insulate you a little from surprise attack.  It would be much easier than building an entire cabin from scratch.

Now better options are out there such as a nice block building (if you can stay in populated areas), a remote existing cabin, or an underground bunker. I was just playing with unconventional ideas. If something was to happen, very few of us will have a huge stocked bunker to dive into and lock up tight. Even if you do, there is a finite amount of time you can remain there. Or unforeseen issues that damage your stockpile. On the other side, running into the woods and living in a tent is not going to work long term. If you are lucky it will be spring and you will have until winter to find a better solution. If not, winter in the middle of the woods with little more than a tent as shelter is not where I want to be. Despite everyone thinking they can kill enough game to survive, if everyone is hunting things will thin out mighty quick.

They say the best tool is your head and the best skill is adaptability. I just like to keep both in play by looking at things a little differently. If we all had time and unlimited budget to prepare for whatever may happen whenever, we would not have to care about it. We would be driving one of these in a model that ran on any fuel (Diesel, unleaded, vodka, kerosene):

 

 

[Raoul]

Personally I'm looking for a hilltop with a 360 degree view. Pretty sure I have the additional manpower to handle it from there.

Edited April 13, 2017 by Raoul

[Ronald_55]

9 minutes ago, Raoul said:

Personally I'm looking for a hilltop with a 360 degree view. Pretty sure I have the additional manpower to handle it from there.

Unfortunately I do not have additional manpower to help out. What I do have thinks I am crazy for even thinking things could go bad ...ever.

I have actually been keeping an eye open for a little undeveloped land, but actually buying it might cause me to be single again. If nothing else it would be a nice place to camp and get away from the house sometimes.

[Raoul]

Just remember, you don't have to own it, just defend it, if indeed the SHTF

 

[Dolomite_supafly]

9 hours ago, Raoul said:

Just remember, you don't have to own it, just defend it, if indeed the SHTF

 

After first taking it from those who are already there. If a person doesn't own the property they better have their supplies loaded and on their way to the bug out location BEFORE anything happens if you plan on being there first. You MUST have your supplies already loaded, tank full of gas and able to take off within minutes if you have ANY hope of beating the mobs. And if you think you have found the perfect spot a bunch of other people are planning to go to the same spot.

There are plenty of people who plan on bugging out and I wonder where. Most of them say they plan to head to the hills which is a huge problem because there are already people in those hills living there right now. And those people are going to defend their location or at least I know I will. And don't expect others to openly welcome a large group of people. I know I won't welcome anyone unless they bring a significant skill to the group and honestly I can't imagine what that skill might be that isn't already covered. Anyone who is not a member of my group will be turned away with overwhelming amount of force.

I will say this to all of those planning on bugging out to the hills. I will defend what is mine, including land, from any squatters or looters. After all if you show up and try to take what isn't yours you are a thief. That includes wild game, plants or anything on my property even if I do not need it or not using it that stuff is still mine. I may have more than I need to survive but I will not share any of it with complete strangers. I have made preparations to ensure my survivability and I would be a fool to give any of it away to complete strangers.

It takes a lot of land to support a person year around. An acre or two isn't going to cut it. It will likely take 10's of acres per person if they plan on foraging or hunting.

And what makes the average person think they are going to make it out of a population center before the other 50% of the other people leaving the cities clog the roadways? What is going to happen is the highways are going to clog like Rita/ Katrina leaving them stranded and with the option of walking to the "hills" or walking back to the cities. And when you start walking you are going to be able to carry far less than what you left with or even left behind in your vehicle.

Bugging in has some real advantages and if I lived in a city I would, without a doubt, stay put. First is you already have everything you are going to have without the need to transport it to a new location. You can call for help from those around you while in a remote location you cannot call for help. Another big advantage is you know the area. You also know who is friend and who is foe or at least have a good idea. Travelling exposes you to more dangers. It is also easier to defend a building or high rise than a tent in the woods. Those buildings are going to protect you from the elements and be easier to keep warm in and survive in for the average person especially those used to living in the city. Food, at least initially, will be easier to come by in the cities as well as potable water. There are literally a few weeks worth of potable water in your water heater and toilet bowls and that is if you don't ration. With rain gutters, collecting water is much easier too. And as disgusting as it might sound cities have tons of rodents that can be harvested for food. If any type of relief or supplies are handed out it is going to be in the population centers first.

The average person is going to have a far easier time surviving in the city than in the "hills".

But if you must bug out and have any hope of bugging out you must be packed and ready to go in a moments notice. Vehicles have to ALWAYS have the gas needed to make it to that location. When the SHTF gas will be gone within minutes so unless you are at the pumps pumping your gas as it takes place you will not get gas from a pump.

You need to also realize that there are going to be a lot more people than just you heading to a bug out location. This is going to clog the roadways like we saw during Rita/Katrina. The only way you might get a head start is if you are in a position to get some notice, like LE, emergency services or the government. Otherwise it is going to be a race to get out and if you are not in the lead you will find yourself stuck in the rear with the pack. And once you are stuck you and your stuff become vulnerable to roaming bands of thugs set on taking your stuff for themselves. And honestly it would be easy pickings.

As far as your bug out location you need to own the property you plan to go to. This can give you a little bit of a delay in the squatters that will show up. And once there the squatters are not going to readily leave even if you tell them you own the property. If your bug out location is "public lands" you are not going to be the first there, it will be like winning the lottery if you are. You are going to find yourself surrounded by thousands of others who have the same plan. So, if it is a good spot, you will probably have to fight your way in and once in you will have to constantly defend that location.

Most people don't realize that best case scenario crops will be edible in 4 months. If it happened during the summer it would be close to a year before crops can begin to be harvested. So that means you are going to have to transport that much food because you are not going to be able to kill a years worth of food with everyone else trying to do the same thing.

And as much as I hate to say it in order to survive people must loose their conscience. They must be willing to turn those less fortunate away unless they bring a substantial advantage to the group.

People have this grand illusion that they are going to be able to find virgin land to live off of. Look around, how much public land do you see? And of that how much is going to be free for the taking, not much if any, by the time they make it?

[peejman]

Dig in, scavenge everything left behind by those who leave, then be ready for the handful who make it back alive after a failed bug out attempt. 

[Ronald_55]

 

1 hour ago, peejman said:

Dig in, scavenge everything left behind by those who leave, then be ready for the handful who make it back alive after a failed bug out attempt. 

That is where I tend to excel...scavenging.  I tend to be the " can you find this..." guy for the people around me.  That translates well to gathering items for use or barter in SHTF. Though barter is a dicey affair at best.

 

2 hours ago, Dolomite_supafly said:

There are plenty of people who plan on bugging out and I wonder where. Most of them say they plan to head to the hills which is a huge problem because there are already people in those hills living there right now.

Possibly the best case scenario for the survivors is if the event causes a massive population decrease without damaging the resources. Otherwise people will see what other people will do when they can't feed themselves or their family. If the population is left relative at full numbers and  if the event is global, there will be a population decrease later. Unfortunately, those that do not make it may use up or damage a lot of the resources before the population drops low enough that the land can support it. 

On the other side of the people that are ready to bug out with their 90lb rucksack full of brand new never tested items are those that think the government will step in and restore things. In the level of an event we are discussing, all the government big wigs are going to do is run to their bunker. You know the one that they build with their huge income paid from taxes. Then they will have their little contractor armies keep people away. that will leave a ton of desperate people when they realize the truth.

This is why I really want to have some place that I can use as a backup. I do not feel that my home is a permanent hunker down solution. It has too may down sides when it comes to living with no electricity or public water. If I could not make it out at the head of the first wave of people, then I could hold tight with the supplies I have until I can move out safely. In the interim, I could scavenge from those buildings that are deserted. Gather the items to use until we moved or the select gear we take with us. If nothing else the cabin would be nice to do weekend trips to get away from the rat race for now.

[JAB]

I think Dolomite made a lot of very good points.  I have often said that all the people who think they are going to just 'head to the country' are going to be surprised to find people like me already there, (figuratively) sitting on my front porch with a shotgun and telling them to get the hell off of my lawn.

The only type of event I can think of where I would want to 'bug out' would be if there were a weather related/natural disaster type event that made staying home impossible.  Otherwise, all of my food supplies are at home.  All of my guns and ammo are at home.  My medications are at home.  My bed is at home (and if I am going to die in a SHTF situation I'd rather do so in my bed than wallowing in the mud and wondering why I didn't just stay my a** at the house.)  Also, as Dolomite pointed out, I know the area around my home.  I have well water and there are two wells on the property - the old, insufficient one that has been disused and a newer one that is used.  Thing is, the older one is now just a covered shaft - which means I can pop the cover, drop in a tubular well 'bucket' and haul up water out of the ground.  I have done it, before.  Long term food supplies would be my only, real issue.  I have plenty of acreage for a garden but for the most part the soil sucks so that growing large scale crops would be difficult.  The land isn't really suited for cattle, either but I could raise a few hogs (am considering doing that soon, anyhow), I have a few chickens (more for egg laying but am also considering adding more for meat) and the land could likely sustain a few goats for meat and milk.  I have home canned food in the past so if I had a supply of fresh meat/vegetables/fruits I could preserve them - probably even if I had to use the canner over a fire instead of an electric heat source.  There is some game available in my area but I think wild game supplies would 'dry up' pretty quickly.  There are places within walking distance where I could catch a few fish, however, and that would probably be more sensible than planning on doing a lot of hunting (although I am not that big a fan of eating fish very often - I eat fish but not on an every day basis - if I am really hungry protein would be protein.)  Fishing would make more sense from an energy expenditure standpoint, too - especially if there are places to sit up trot lines, limb lines and so on that won't be scavenged by others.  Mostly, though, I would need to have a lot of food stored beforehand if I were going to be facing a long term SHTF event.  That said, I think that a much more likely scenario would be one where food/supplies/the grid are interrupted for a matter of weeks or months, not years.  Either way, currently I am thinking a lot more about long term or semi-long term food storage than about where I would run away to or what all I would have to take with me.

Dolomite also hit the nail on the head about losing one's conscience.  We all know what we would do if 'marauders' came to our door looking to take our food.  Consider, however, if the people who came to your door were, for instance, a 65 year old grandmother and her two grandchildren - ages 6 and 8 - who had gotten separated from their group and had not eaten in three days.  None of the three would likely be bringing any, real skills or needed knowledge to the table and if allowed to hang around they would be nothing more than a drain on already limited resources.  Giving them a day or two worth of food and sending them on their way might make you feel a little better but, honestly, that would just be wasting a day or two of food you might need later as it likely won't make much difference in the long run where their survival is concerned, anyhow.  Besides, if you give in and give them a few day's worth will you do the same the next time someone comes asking - and the next, and the next?  How long could you do that without seriously depleting the supplies you had already decided you needed for the survival of you and yours?  On the other hand, is looking into their faces and saying, "Nope, sorry.  Wish I could help but I can't.  Best you move along, now," something you are prepared to do?  Because if you really intend to survive you will probably have to.

Edited April 20, 2017 by JAB

[Ronald_55]

The pretty obvious danger of taking in other people is that, even if they have skills, they might decide they can use your supplies better than you while you are sleeping. 

On the other side, if you have some trustworthy people the extra hands could really help to work with crops and animals. This will be important after the initial stages of a long term issue. The problem is finding these people before things go bad. Trust should be a very limited commodity after.

Some of us that see the need to have plans in place do not live in a setting or with others that see the same thing. This makes it even harder because if things go bad either of the two may cause dangerous delays in putting plans into action. All the food, guns, and ammo in the world will not help if you can't get people in the car and moving if things happen fast and you are away from home.  When making simple suggestions to better prepare, such as stocking up on more canned food, get you the "when are you putting on the tinfoil hat" stare, it is hard to plan for the bigger issues. Hopefully I never need to say "told you so". Either that or I need to move to that off-the-grid 10x10 cabin I have been thinking of. It might help me keep my sanity for a bunch of reasons.

[JAB]

13 hours ago, Ronald_55 said:

The pretty obvious danger of taking in other people is that, even if they have skills, they might decide they can use your supplies better than you while you are sleeping. 

On the other side, if you have some trustworthy people the extra hands could really help to work with crops and animals. This will be important after the initial stages of a long term issue. The problem is finding these people before things go bad. Trust should be a very limited commodity after.

Some of us that see the need to have plans in place do not live in a setting or with others that see the same thing. This makes it even harder because if things go bad either of the two may cause dangerous delays in putting plans into action. All the food, guns, and ammo in the world will not help if you can't get people in the car and moving if things happen fast and you are away from home.  When making simple suggestions to better prepare, such as stocking up on more canned food, get you the "when are you putting on the tinfoil hat" stare, it is hard to plan for the bigger issues. Hopefully I never need to say "told you so". Either that or I need to move to that off-the-grid 10x10 cabin I have been thinking of. It might help me keep my sanity for a bunch of reasons.

I don't really push non like-minded people to 'prepare'.  Not even friends or family.  If I know that my words are going to fall on deaf ears then there is no sense wasting my breath.  That said, depending on the mindset and situation of the person you are talking to I think that some things can be done right in the open with no 'tin foil hat' comments necessary.  Rather than, "You should put back some food supplies in case the Chinese (or some teenage kids in North Korea) hack our power grid and shut the whole thing down," maybe you could approach it as, "Damn, the economy is crazy, isn't it.  Every time I think things are recovering something else happens to make me wonder, again.  So many people getting laid off or losing their jobs altogether.  Then I look at how things are in Venezuela.  Then there's Greece - that's not some second or third world nation I never heard of but Greece, for Pete's sake.  Not that things would get that bad here but I guess things did get pretty bad in this country during the Great Depression.  I tell ya', I think I am going to start buying a few, extra cans of food every week and try to build up a pretty good supply of canned food at home.  I'll have to eat it and replace it so it won't go past the 'use by' date but I still think I want to keep a pretty good surplus in my cabinet.  That way if the economy tanks or if I lose my job I will at least have food to eat, at least for a little while."  I think it would be less likely that someone would drag out the old, tired 'tin foil hat' nonsense when you are talking about preparing not for things that maybe, could happen but for things that have happened and are happening.

Then there is an approach that doesn't have to have anything to do with hard times, instability or anything else.  Rather than, "I'm going to start canning and dehydrating food at home so I will have supplies when the government crumbles and society falls apart," maybe one could go with, "I think I am going to start buying fresh fruits and vegetables from the farmers market [or even growing a garden if it is feasible] and preserving them, myself.  I hear dehydrating is a great way to store some fruits and veggies and, of course, people have been canning that kind of stuff at home for years.  Maybe I'll make some home made jelly or something, too.  That way I will know what is in my food and I will be able to help support the local farmers.  Besides, in the middle of the winter some good, home canned green beans will taste really good."  Heck, even the most mainstream, left-leaning type could probably get behind that!  If they seem interested then maybe you could move on to, "Hey, you know, maybe we could both get into home canning and so on together.  It could work out really well.  I mean, I could do, say, a big batch of green beans and maybe you could can some tomatoes [tomatoes are easier to can - because tomatoes are high in acid you don't necessarily have to pressure can them and a water bath canner will work] and we could swap out a few jars of each."  Just some ideas.  Not that I am likely to try any of them because, like I said, I don't usually try to convince people, even in a round-a-bout way.

Edited April 21, 2017 by JAB

[Ronald_55]

Hardest part for me is that the one that sleeps next to me is the one that thinks I am the craziest. lol

[Spiffy]

Didn't work out too well for the old dude on Tremors!