22 hits, 4 minutes before he died.

[MrNobody]

http://www.lawofficer.com/news-and-articles/articles/lom/0412/the_peter_soulis_incident.html;jsessionid=10BDC02F0CF4D0B083E43EA06A47B949pital

The officer shot the assailant 22 times before he went down. Guy was a zombie.

[Guest pjblurton]

Glad it worked out for the good guy. Valuable lessons there.

[Guest Astra900]

Wow. That's an incredible story.

Really throws a wrench into that stopping power argument some dummies like to argue.

[ghawk249]

Makes me wonder if LEO's are taught after 3 hits center mass to make one shot to cranium vault?

[musicman]

I've been seeing more and more things like this involving the .40. Dunno what to make of that.

[Guest Astra900]

I've been seeing more and more things like this involving the .40. Dunno what to make of that.

Yeah me too. The local police here all switched from .40 to .357 sig a few years ago. I switched over to .357 mag myself. I don't guess there many complaints on the .357mag....I can't seem to find 'em.

[G27]

I've been seeing more and more things like this involving the .40. Dunno what to make of that.

Caliber isn't what matters here - time after time we've seen that if 2-3 shots COM don't stop the bad guy, virtually no amount of them will in a short time.

[Guest Astra900]

Caliber isn't what matters here - time after time we've seen that if 2-3 shots COM don't stop the bad guy, virtually no amount of them will in a short time.

Makes you wish you could get to the 870 some police keep in the car, huh?

I dunno what I would do if a BG didn't go down in the first couple of shots:panic:

[Guest 70below]

Makes me wonder if LEO's are taught after 3 hits center mass to make one shot to cranium vault?

We always trained in my department for 2 to the chest, 1 to the head......shoot to stop exercises, standard drill assuming no known dangers behind the convict (I worked Corrections, so they were all convicts). I assume most departments have similar programs, though most departments are severely underfunded and their officers undertrained.

[Guest m&pc9]

http://www.lawofficer.com/news-and-articles/articles/lom/0412/the_peter_soulis_incident.html;jsessionid=10BDC02F0CF4D0B083E43EA06A47B949pital

The officer shot the assailant 22 times before he went down. Guy was a zombie.

I dont carry a spare magazine. I guess Im going to have to rethink that.

[ZenDog]

One of the interesting things I read in the analysis of this shooting on another board is that shooters often do not know their shots are on target, especially in low light and under the great duress of a real shooting.

If the BG doesn't seem immediately impacted by the shots, often in the super high stress of the firefight the LEO will try even harder to hit COM, not realizing he is already hitting the BG and his aim is actually on target.

If you think you are not hitting and you are aiming COM, a headshot would seem out of the question. This LEO probably could have hit the headshot- seems his aim was pretty good.

His focus as to where to aim might have been constrained by the misperception that his shots were not hitting.

I might start training myself to always shoot 2 com, one head, no matter what I think is going on. And make sure to carry extra magazine(s).

[Guest TargetShooter84]

Just amazing story....scary tho.

[Punisher84]

This is why I advocate carrying AT LEAST an extra mag.

[Guest Mugster]

At close range like that, you should hear the smack of the bullet, which is distinctive. So you should know you got a hit vs a miss or hitting metal, especially if you have a good sight picture memory.

Edited January 10, 2009 by Mugster

[Steelharp]

When did .40 fall into the "minor caliber" group?

[Guest Mugster]

When did .40 fall into the "minor caliber" group?

Ok, i'll get rid of it.

[Guest bkelm18]

At close range like that, you should hear the smack of the bullet, which is distinctive. So you should know you got a hit vs a miss or hitting metal, especially if you have a good sight picture memory.

So at 20 ft away, you can hear a bullet traveling at 500-1200 FPS hit flesh even with the boom of the round being fired?

[Guest bkelm18]

When did .40 fall into the "minor caliber" group?

They day that the FBI decided the 10mm was too much for their fragile hands.

[mdmoseley]

They showed us a video in the academy of a guy that was shot multiple times but didn't go down. One of the shots was a point blank shot to the top of the head straight down. The guy was still fighting a good bit longer. Can't remember the total number of shots but I can tell you drugs had alot to do with it as is most likely this case here as well. And yes we are taught to take a cranium shot but the melon is a hard nut to crack. More often than not a pistol round will run around the outside of the skull under the scalp unless the shot is pretty close to 90 degrees to the head or a really close shot.

[Guest Mugster]

So at 20 ft away, you can hear a bullet traveling at 500-1200 FPS hit flesh even with the boom of the round being fired?

I almost hate to explain. I really don't want to argue.

Try shooting a phonebook stack without your plugs in or a gallon jug filled full of water. Shoot over it a few times and then shoot it. The difference is the noise of the bullet making the strike. Big bullets by diameter make a bigger noise, usually. The longer the barrel the better your chances.

Large birds like ducks or crows make a very distinctive crisp thwack when you hit them with a shotgun. Thats a good way to learn.

[Guest bkelm18]

I almost hate to explain. I really don't want to argue.

Try shooting a phonebook stack without your plugs in or a gallon jug filled full of water. Shoot over it a few times and then shoot it. The difference is the noise of the bullet making the strike. Big bullets by diameter make a bigger noise, usually. The longer the barrel the better your chances.

Large birds like ducks or crows make a very distinctive crisp thwack when you hit them with a shotgun. Thats a good way to learn.

I wasn't trying to be argumentative. I just thought that the sound of the impact would be "overshadowed" by the report of the gun firing due to the short distances involved.

[Guest Mugster]

I wasn't trying to be argumentative. I just thought that the sound of the impact would be "overshadowed" by the report of the gun firing due to the short distances involved.

For me, thats true in a 16" barreled carbine in .223. All I can hear is ringing after i torch one of those off.

[musicman]

I've noticed the subltety in the difference between the "smack" of a fresh apple being hit versus the "smwoosh" of an apple that is about two weeks past ripe when shooting them with my 91/44.

YEA RIGHT!

[Ropin4gold]

Let's not forget that in a high stress encounter where you are using your firearm to save your life you will most likely suffer from sensory deprivation in the form of audio exclusion. It is very possible you will not remember hearing the gun go off or how many rounds you fired, let alone hearing the "impact of the bullets on a target"

Failure drills of 2 to the COM and one to the head are how I train.

Shoot the threat to the ground.

[Guest TnDeerHunter]

Sounds like a lot happened in a short amount of time. Glad it turned out like it did but its got to be a bad feeling when you put that many rounds into BG and he's still in the fight.