Questions about long range shooting and scope setup

[MemHeli]

Guys I'm hoping to get some help with a setup I've got.  I recently got my Vortex Viper PST 6-24x50 mounted on my rifle which has a 20 MOA base.  My understanding is the optic has 60 MOA of total Elevation.  (This is about where my knowledge stops - and learning begins).

I zeroed the rifle at 100 yards.  I added the zero stop shims as directed.  Now what I see is from zero, I have just over 3 revolutions (12 moa per), roughly 38 MOA of elevation left.

I've read that to shoot out this far I need 55 MOA, but I'm thinking that's not absolute as I see others going that far w/ less MOA on 6.5.  Any comments here?  

Also, I' thought about zeroing the rifle at 200, to get more MOA up, but this doesn't really add up for me - and seems to be against the norm.  Here's a summarized statement I found on 200 zeros at the end of my post.

So am I on the right track overall here?  And What are the turret markings in elevation for if my zeroed elevation shows over 200 on the turret indicator?  I'd love to catch with some local guys (Memphis) and get a download on all this.  Youtube and the internet aren't quiet gluing it together for me just yet.

 

 

 

Bryan Litz of Applied Ballistics recommends a 100yd zero because at that range environmental differences are moot.

Where zeroing a few hundred yards further can be fine where you live, but travel to another location and density altitude and the longer zero can be way off.

A 100yd zero is common practice for a reason!"

 

 

[Dolomite_supafly]

How far are you shooting and what is the caliber?

[MemHeli]

2 hours ago, Dolomite_supafly said:

How far are you shooting and what is the caliber?

That info would be helpful for sure.  I'm shooting 6.5 Creedmor.  I'm working on a range that will allow for 900 yard shots.

[Dolomite_supafly]

With a 100 yard zero you will need less than 30 MOA, 27.9 to be exact, total to get to 1,000. That is using a 140 Amax at ~2,840 fps. 

900 yards is 23.4 moa with a 100 yard zero  

Total drop at 1,000 is 293".

 

[MemHeli]

23 hours ago, Dolomite_supafly said:

With a 100 yard zero you will need less than 30 MOA, 27.9 to be exact, total to get to 1,000. That is using a 140 Amax at ~2,840 fps. 

900 yards is 23.4 moa with a 100 yard zero  

Total drop at 1,000 is 293".

 

Thanks, I've got alot to learn.  Looks like I"m headed in the right direction.  

 

[Shorty]

Out of curiosity, what range around here goes out to 900, the range in Como maybe?  MSSA stops at 600 unless I missed an update.

[MemHeli]

13 hours ago, Shorty said:

Out of curiosity, what range around here goes out to 900, the range in Como maybe?  MSSA stops at 600 unless I missed an update.

This is my "private" range on my land.

 

[sybo]

[Dolomite_supafly]

On ‎3‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 3:35 PM, MemHeli said:

Thanks, I've got alot to learn.  Looks like I"m headed in the right direction.  

 

There is one tool that has helped me more than anything else when it comes to learning about ballistics. That is Ballistic AE (Advanced Edition). It is available for Apple products and is the best app out there for calculating firing solutions. It costs $20 but is worth a lot more. It really is an amazing piece of kit. It gets updated regularly and has every bullet, in every caliber, on the market or at least I have yet to find a bullet not in the catalog.

When I go to zero I select the bullet (there is literally thousands) I am using, I shoot across a chronograph to get velocity and input that into the program. Next I hit a single icon within the program and the program polls all the local cell phone towers to determine your location. The it uses the cell phone data to get the average weather conditions like temperature, humidity, height and that is your zero conditions. And the next place you shoot you hit the same icon and the program does the same thing again but this time it makes changes based on the difference between the zero conditions and current conditions. It has traditional trajectory charts but also has a HUD where you can make changes on the fly. It takes into account the earths rotation, the bullets curve as well as the firing angle when shooting up or down from horizontal.

This program allowed me to get first round hits at 350 yards shooting subsonic ammunition.

I have used Strelok, Knights Armament and a bunch of free apps and Ballistic AE is the best, period.

http://ballisticapp.com/

[Dolomite_supafly]

Here is a video explaining a lot of what Ballistic AE does.

 

Here is a video on how to really fine tune your trajectory.

 

[Alleycat72]

With my 6.5 Redding  (260 with a 30° shoulder) I zero at 200 yards. I have to dial 38 to 42 moa for 1250 yards. It depends on the atmospheric conditions. That gun has a FFP Vortex pst with a 20 moa base.

[MemHeli]

2 hours ago, Dolomite_supafly said:

Here is a video explaining a lot of what Ballistic AE does.

 

Here is a video on how to really fine tune your trajectory.

 

 

2 hours ago, Dolomite_supafly said:

There is one tool that has helped me more than anything else when it comes to learning about ballistics. That is Ballistic AE (Advanced Edition). It is available for Apple products and is the best app out there for calculating firing solutions. It costs $20 but is worth a lot more. It really is an amazing piece of kit. It gets updated regularly and has every bullet, in every caliber, on the market or at least I have yet to find a bullet not in the catalog.

When I go to zero I select the bullet (there is literally thousands) I am using, I shoot across a chronograph to get velocity and input that into the program. Next I hit a single icon within the program and the program polls all the local cell phone towers to determine your location. The it uses the cell phone data to get the average weather conditions like temperature, humidity, height and that is your zero conditions. And the next place you shoot you hit the same icon and the program does the same thing again but this time it makes changes based on the difference between the zero conditions and current conditions. It has traditional trajectory charts but also has a HUD where you can make changes on the fly. It takes into account the earths rotation, the bullets curve as well as the firing angle when shooting up or down from horizontal.

This program allowed me to get first round hits at 350 yards shooting subsonic ammunition.

I have used Strelok, Knights Armament and a bunch of free apps and Ballistic AE is the best, period.

http://ballisticapp.com/

Thanks!  Going to watch these now!

[The Legion]

I am new at this myself.  This is great information.  Thanks

[NashvilleStage]

On 3/13/2017 at 8:58 AM, MemHeli said:

Guys I'm hoping to get some help with a setup I've got.  I recently got my Vortex Viper PST 6-24x50 mounted on my rifle which has a 20 MOA base.  My understanding is the optic has 60 MOA of total Elevation.  (snip)

Also, I thought about zeroing the rifle at 200, to get more MOA up, but this doesn't really add up for me - 

To answer your question about zeroing at 100 vs. 200 yards, that won't buy you extra elevation adjustment (unless the zero-stop shims on your scope are artificially limiting the range of adjustability; I'm not familiar with the details on that particular model). You'll still hit the limit of adjustability at the same point.

If you need more elevation adjustment than your scope will allow, then you'll need to change the scope mounting base to a higher or lower angle so that the scope gets back into its range of adjustment.

The distance that you zero at is mostly just a nice reference point to base your calculations on for different distances. You can zero at 100 yards, then use your D.O.P.E. notes to calculate come-ups for further distances. Or, you could zero at 1,000 yards & use the same notes to calculate come-downs for nearer distances. Or zero anywhere in the middle. Use whatever makes the most sense to you.

One caveat is that if you're using a BDC reticle & want to use the BDC markings, you'll need to zero at the distance that the BDC was designed for. Realize though, that (unless you have a very specific BDC designed just for your load) BDC reticles are by nature somewhat generic, and may or may not have the accuracy that you need for what you want to do.

If you'd like some more information on long-distance shooting, look up "Ryan Cleckner NSSF" on YouTube. Ryan did a series of short videos for the NSSF on the fundamentals of long-range shooting, and they're really good. Ryan also has a book on long-range shooting that I highly recommend. You can find it on Amazon.

[ozo]

"One caveat is that if you're using a BDC reticle & want to use the BDC markings, you'll need to zero at the distance that the BDC was designed for. Realize though, that (unless you have a very specific BDC designed just for your load) BDC reticles are by nature somewhat generic, and may or may not have the accuracy that you need for what you want to do."-------  @NashvilleStage

To even come close to helping (in your specific case) we/I would need more specific info.

You can 'zero' wherever you choose, then remember where you want to go from there.

A deer rifle for 100-200yds is not the same as an elk rifle set for 500yds with all factors being equal. [if you reload]

Scope angle is important to factor. And I think your assessment of the shims are misleading you.

I am cold on this these days, so I might be simply jibberish, I have been using computer scopes for some time, for long range, and am spoiled.

I will say that if I set a rifle for 600-1000yd I would not zero/shim for 100yd. 

I am glad to see you have a long range available......I also shoot off my back porch, and would move if I ever lost that option. 

I know this vid does not address your situation per se, but it will give you a gateway to Cleckner.