muzzle energy expert level lol

[Sam1]

Rhienmetall makes the 120mm cannons for most of the NATO tanks now, and they are upgrading to a 130mm before too long.  Don't have much on specs other than it has 1.5 times the energy that the current 120mm has. JJust out of boredom, I tracked down the specs of the current cannon and calculated out everything.  The 120mm high pressure round (equivalent to our +p personal weapons loads) pushes the 22lb sabot @ 5700 ft/s.  At a measly 11,112,873 ft/lbs of muzzle energy.  The new one clocks in at 16,669,309 ft/lbs of muzzle energy, as they are using the same projectile and just increasing speed/effective range.

Knew those things had some juice behind them, but holy smokes that is crazy.  I'd be interested to know what kind of power some of those 8" and 10" battleship guns have if a little 5" gun has almost 17 million ft/lbs.

[Ronald_55]

So what kind of projectile are they flinging at that speed? I remember something about Depleted Uranium projectiles, but not sure if that was a movie or a real thing.

[Sam1]

Yeah it's basically a 30-40mm dart with a DU rod inside of it.  The projectile itself is made of another metal, possible tungsten carbide (not sure).  DU is a pretty small part of the overall projectile.  The tanks use DU in the armor as well, so basically you're riding around in a radioactive death machine.  Supposedly nothing bad will happen unless you breath in the dust from a DU round, or hit on the armor, but there sure a lot of us tankers developing autonomic system issues.

[peejman]

How could a 120mm and 130mm gun fire the same projectile?

 

The Yamato class Japanese battleships in WWII had the largest guns at 460mm  firing a 3200lb projectile... 337 million ft-lbs  with a range of 26 miles.

The German Schwerer Gustav railway gun is the biggest ever.   800mm bore firing a 15,650lb  projectile at 2700 ft/s... 1.77 billion ft-lbs.  

 

 

Edited March 10, 2017 by peejman

[Ronald_55]

I wonder if the first prototypes with DU in the armor glowed softly lol. 

It is always easy for the guy in a secure office sitting in a nice soft chair to say "There is no danger from....". What he really means is "There is no danger to ME from...." 

[Johnny Rotten]

Well that's depressing my 50 has a whopping 12,500ft/lbs

[MP5_Rizzo]

11 minutes ago, peejman said:

How could a 120mm and 130mm gun fire the same projectile?

Different size sabot.

[peejman]

3 minutes ago, MP5_Rizzo said:

Different size sabot.

So my initial smart-arse thought of "more wadding" was pretty close.  

[Ronald_55]

55 minutes ago, MP5_Rizzo said:

Different size sabot.

You beat me to it. lol

 

I wonder if the first guy to use a "sabot" just said crap all the bullets I have are too small, let's just wrap something around it to make it fit?

Edited March 10, 2017 by Ronald_55

[Sam1]

1 hour ago, peejman said:

How could a 120mm and 130mm gun fire the same projectile?

 

The Yamato class Japanese battleships in WWII had the largest guns at 460mm  firing a 3200lb projectile... 337 million ft-lbs  with a range of 26 miles.

The German Schwerer Gustav railway gun is the biggest ever.   800mm bore firing a 15,650lb  projectile at 2700 ft/s... 1.77 billion ft-lbs.  

 

 

Because it's a sabot round.  The only difference is the circumference of the petals holding the penetrator will be 130mm, instead of 120mm.

 

<edit> posted that before scrolling down, looks like the others already answered.

Edited March 10, 2017 by Sam1

[Sam1]

45 minutes ago, Ronald_55 said:

You beat me to it. lol

 

I wonder if the first guy to use a "sabot" just said crap all the bullets I have are too small, let's just wrap something around it to make it fit?

dunno, but he was probably also the guy that said "hey, what do we do with all these 3/4" ball bearings left over in the garage? ... Let's put them in a 120mm canister and blow them out of a tank!" And the beehive round was born.

[Ronald_55]

6 minutes ago, Sam1 said:

dunno, but he was probably also the guy that said "hey, what do we do with all these 3/4" ball bearings left over in the garage? ... Let's put them in a 120mm canister and blow them out of a tank!" And the beehive round was born.

Yep I agree, sounds like the same kind of thinking. Next thing he will invent is the recycled beehive round... it will use depleted AA/AAA batteries instead of ball bearings. Or he could go high class and use the CR123 batteries use up in the military optics.

Edited March 10, 2017 by Ronald_55

[peejman]

27 minutes ago, Sam1 said:

dunno, but he was probably also the guy that said "hey, what do we do with all these 3/4" ball bearings left over in the garage? ... Let's put them in a 120mm canister and blow them out of a tank!" And the beehive round was born.

Nah, that was the guys who said "Crap! We're out of ammo but still have powder and the enemy is about to come over that rise. Find anything you can to stuff in there and shoot at them!"  And canister shot was born...  

[Sam1]

1 hour ago, MP5_Rizzo said:

Different size sabot.

Is that top one from an autoloader or something? I've never seen a round broken up into charges like that before.

[MP5_Rizzo]

11 minutes ago, Sam1 said:

Is that top one from an autoloader or something? I've never seen a round broken up into charges like that before.

I have no clue.  Just an image I snatched of the web to show the same projectile with different size sabots.

[Ronald_55]

28 minutes ago, peejman said:

Nah, that was the guys who said "Crap! We're out of ammo but still have powder and the enemy is about to come over that rise. Find anything you can to stuff in there and shoot at them!"  And canister shot was born...  

I think that first guy was manning a cannon myself. He crammed some chain, broken swords, rock, and some ham bones left over from dinner last night in and fired away. The "If it will fit, fire away" became the slogan. Of course his real secret weapon was when he decided to put livestock in the catapult.......... 

[peejman]

4 hours ago, Ronald_55 said:

I think that first guy was manning a cannon myself. He crammed some chain, broken swords, rock, and some ham bones left over from dinner last night in and fired away. The "If it will fit, fire away" became the slogan. Of course his real secret weapon was when he decided to put livestock in the catapult.......... 

 

[Ronald_55]

19 minutes ago, peejman said:

 

I knew someone was a Python fan around here. Lol

[Sam1]

Love some monty python.  Since the thread has diverted, you should check out kids in the hall: brain candy if you like the python movies

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wc4ND4Javf4

Would suggest to get it on TV or something better resolution though.

Edited March 11, 2017 by Sam1

[Ronald_55]

15 minutes ago, Sam1 said:

Love some monty python.  Since the thread has diverted, you should check out kids in the hall: brain candy if you like the python movies

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wc4ND4Javf4

Would suggest to get it on TV or something better resolution though.

I will check it out. 

I think derailing conversations is my superpower...I just have to learn to use it for good. Lol.

So to bring it back on track... You were/are a tanker?

[Sam1]

Sort of like a marine, when you're a tanker, it's never past or present... you're a tanker.  Doesn't matter how you go in, we all come out the other side acting the same way lol

Hell, when a navy seal tell you "that's a bad ass job" you know it's cool as hell because those guys get to play with things we don't even know exist.

[buck1032]

15 minutes ago, Sam1 said:

Hell, when a navy seal tell you "that's a bad ass job" you know it's cool as hell because those guys get to play with things we don't even know exist.

Let me preface this by saying, I am not, never been a SEAL. I never applied, went to or graduated BUDS. I was an Aviation Machinists Mate who got lucky and did a tour at the Navy SERE school. I got to work closely with some of the SEALs (we called them fish eaters). This was in the late 90's and the SEALs went through the regular SERE training tract. These days they have a SERE school tailored for them so they do not attend the school I taught. I also taught DEST (Desert Environmental Survival Training) and Team 3 was keenly interested in that course. I had a student from Team 3 and he and I hit it off. We were students together at another course. As I moved up in the DEST program I started hooking my contact up in Team 3 to make sure his guys always had a billet. As such I got to use some of their stuff. I ensured his Team had a slot and I would call him up and see what stuff and gear he could loan me.  The gear these guys had and the budget, even then, was mind boggling. I came from aviation and its standard run of the mill to not have money for parts. I called him one day asking if he could loan me some weapons and "stuff". I needed them to be outfitted for simunitions. He and his team went overboard. I drove away with, well lets just say an amazing amount of stuff, gear, weapons, ordnance, and other fun things. As they were loading it for me I asked my buddy where do I need to sign for custody, he just laughed and said he knew where I worked. LOL I ended up deploying with that guy in 01 and when he came aboard he shunned the normal Navy brass BS and hung with me in the mech shop. He stayed in and went on to bigger and even better things.

 

So to bring this derailment back on track, all these Ft Lbs measurements make my largest caliber seem down right wimpy, the 375 H&H Mag which can get upwards of 4,500 ft lbs  

[Ronald_55]

33 minutes ago, Sam1 said:

Sort of like a marine, when you're a tanker, it's never past or present... you're a tanker.  Doesn't matter how you go in, we all come out the other side acting the same way lol

Hell, when a navy seal tell you "that's a bad ass job" you know it's cool as hell because those guys get to play with things we don't even know exist.

I remember my Papaw talking about the tanks in WWII. He drove a fuel and munitions truck (who decided gas and explosives in one place???), but loved the twin cadillac engine tanks. He said they used to do 65mph down the Autobahn. I think he really wanted to be in one, but I don't think he ever "officially" got to.

 

 

[Sam1]

6 hours ago, buck1032 said:

 The gear these guys had and the budget, even then, was mind boggling.

Yeah, army spec ops is similar.  We had to train them on the tanks and it was none of that crap we had to go through (12 weeks of school crap).  We were out at gunnery, they showed up with a bunch of ammo trucks in tow.  Filled the tanks to the brim, and straight to the range.  They don't do classes, they were strictly on the job/hands on training.