Did I brandish? - Thread from officer.com

[Guest sling]

I was reading through this thread on officer.com and it got me thinking about the whole situation. What are your opinions on the officers action?

http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=109314

Note: Indiana is a concealed or open state.

[creeky]

Wow! For a while there they really did a good job of beating up on the guy. Although it is hard to discern tone in a thread, it seemed to me to be very condescending to him for a while.

Even when he posted the answer the PD gave him, many neglected to read it and continued to belittle him.

Classy...

[poak]

I liked one member's response:

I personally think he was just being a blowhard with the "I can write you right now and take your gun" comment...

He said what he said, and while I suppose it's technically right, since I'm not a cop in IN, I'll take it for it's worth. The guy in uniform is always right. If I was in that scenario, if I felt compelled to say anything at all, I would've went about it in more of an educational direction. That's just me.

As a general rule, I try to keep my right to exercise my police authority directed at those who are really trying hard to challenge it.

[Guest sling]

Wow! For a while there they really did a good job of beating up on the guy. Although it is hard to discern tone in a thread, it seemed to me to be very condescending to him for a while.

Even when he posted the answer the PD gave him, many neglected to read it and continued to belittle him.

Classy...

This is what i saw as well. However, most of the comments seem to be aimed at 'defending their own.' OR they're from cops in very restrictive carry law states. This could impact their comments as well.

Edited January 7, 2009 by sling

[Guest db99wj]

He (LEO) was wrong on the brandishing, and the LEO either over reacted or is a horse's ass and that is just how he is. I think he should have and had every right to ask about the permit and ask to see it.

Isn't this why many states, including Tennessee, passed the open carry law to protect those that of course want to open carry, but expose their gun while reaching, bending, etc.

And yes, the tone seemed very against this guy.

Edited January 7, 2009 by db99wj

[Guest eyebedam]

Most of the comments on that site they defend on another. I agree totally sling.

[Guest pjblurton]

Road King Trooper is a douche...

[Fallguy]

That is part of the problem when you have posters from several states with different laws. In some states, what the OP did may very well have been illegal, in some it isn't at all.

[Guest GUTTERbOY]

I think a large source of the negative responses there were based on varying state laws. Notice that the first person (catch um and ba) to come right out and say that yes, he was brandishing, was from Texas. And in Texas, what he did would indeed have been unlawful. The second guy to post a negative response (2wheeldep) was from California... where OC is frowned upon. (technicalities aside) Finally, we had a guy (blackhorse) from Louisiana... and I have no clue what the laws are down there, so I can't really comment.

Questions like this, IMO, need to be asked and answered in an environment where people knowledgeable about the relevant state laws can respond. An officer working in San Francisco is going to have a completely different set of instinctive reactions than a rural Georgia deputy. Both of those officers may well know that other states have different laws, but they're not likely to know any specifics.

Of course the smart thing would be for people not to answer questions if they don't know the relevant law... but this is the Internet. I gave up on high expectations like that a while ago.

EDIT: Fallguy beat me to it while I was typing up my essay.

[memphismason]

After reading that post from another forum, makes me thankfull we have what we have here in TGO.

This is truely one of the better forums out there.

[Farman]

What stuff do you guys carry and in what pockets? Since carrying, (concealed) I moved my wallet to the left front pocket and snot rag to right front and keys now hang at 9 0'clock. I don't have to sweep my cover to retrieve anything.

[Guest GUTTERbOY]

The only change I've made to accomodate carry is moving my loose change from my right hip to left hip pocket when I'm pocket carrying. I've never had a problem with exposing whilst reaching for my wallet, even if I'm carrying OWB under a jacket. It's just a matter of pulling the jacket up from behind rather than sweeping it back.

[Guest sling]

The only change I've made to accomodate carry is moving my loose change from my right hip to left hip pocket when I'm pocket carrying. I've never had a problem with exposing whilst reaching for my wallet, even if I'm carrying OWB under a jacket. It's just a matter of pulling the jacket up from behind rather than sweeping it back.

Ditto. I wear my OWB far back enough to not allow me to reveal.. at around 4'o clock. When i grab my wallet from my front pocket i've never had a problem.

Most people around you are usually not observant enough to notice even if you did show.

[The Average Joe]

This sounds like something I mentioned in another thread about HCP.

Some LEOs sit in there patrol cars and/or have McDonald's round table discussions with other LEOs and sooner or later their opinion becomes "their law".

I agree with the "blowhard comment".

I think if he's going to make mention, he should have followed through with the official "checking of the validity of the permit". Otherwise, he's just rattling to hear himself talk.

Sounds like this particular LEO just took the advantage to be noticed and sling his weight around.

And before SHTF, I realize he's in the minority of LEOs.

Brandishing....In a Conceal Carry or Open Carry state, would brandishing be defined as unholstering a firearm and deliberately showing said firearm?

Otherwise, as long as it's in it's intended carry position, I wouldn't think it be brandished.

[poak]

This sounds like something I mentioned in another thread about HCP.

Some LEOs sit in there patrol cars and/or have McDonald's round table discussions with other LEOs and sooner or later their opinion becomes "their law".

I agree with the "blowhard comment".

I think if he's going to make mention, he should have followed through with the official "checking of the validity of the permit". Otherwise, he's just rattling to hear himself talk.

Sounds like this particular LEO just took the advantage to be noticed and sling his weight around.

And before SHTF, I realize he's in the minority of LEOs.

Brandishing....In a Conceal Carry or Open Carry state, would brandishing be defined as unholstering a firearm and deliberately showing said firearm?

Otherwise, as long as it's in it's intended carry position, I wouldn't think it be brandished.

Ha, I wonder if afterwards he had words w/ the girl working the register at the coffee shop:

"Yeah, I had control of that situation the WHOLE time... That's just what I do, take care and ensure the safety of people like you little lady"

[The Average Joe]

yeah, then he sits around the office and sings to her over the phone.

'"Janita"...Waaa..Neee..Taaaa...

[Guest jwp]

Interesting read.

Seems most of the LEOs posting in the thread are in tune with the laws and are fairly level headed about things.

A couple of comments from others, such as "ShantyIrish" saying that "The guy in the uniform is always right" makes me wonder about their mindset and purpose.

[Punisher84]

Brandishing....In a Conceal Carry or Open Carry state, would brandishing be defined as unholstering a firearm and deliberately showing said firearm?

Otherwise, as long as it's in it's intended carry position, I wouldn't think it be brandished.

I'm not 100 percent, but I think brandishing in an open carry state would require either the gun to be removed in an open carry state or their to be some type of intent to show the holstered gun from concealment.

If it's a CC state, like Texas, I've been told merely the sight of a holstered gun or excessive printing could be considered brandishing. Doubt it'd stick, but you know what I'm getting at.

[Steelharp]

When I asked our own Glockmeister about what constituted "brandishing" as a permit holder, he took the blue training Glock off the table and pointed it at my face. Good example, I thought.

[Punisher84]

When I asked our own Glockmeister about what constituted "brandishing" as a permit holder, he took the blue training Glock off the table and pointed it at my face. Good example, I thought.

LOL "Oh. Well point taken."

[Guest burninbarns]

Not only do I not think this guy brandished, I also think the cop was an a-hole.With intent the major factor,his intentions obviously did not deem even a second glance, otherwise the uniformed officer would have had a lot more for him than words.

[wjh2657]

"I'm not 100 percent, but I think brandishing in an open carry state would require either the gun to be removed in an open carry state or their to be some type of intent to show the holstered gun from concealment.

If it's a CC state, like Texas, I've been told merely the sight of a holstered gun or excessive printing could be considered brandishing. Doubt it'd stick, but you know what I'm getting at. "

I just read Texas Law site and you are right. Texas is strange, law says you can shoot just about anybody, anywhere, for just about any reason but heaven help you if they see your gun or holster when you go to pay a cashier!

They can use deadly force to protect property and can do it anywhere somebody will say it was okay by them! Castle Doctrine extends to not only your property, but any kinfolk's or good friend's property. But don't let that 1911 print through your sweater and jacket, short rope and tall tree a' comin!

"Sundown, you better take care..."

[Guest sling]

"I'm not 100 percent, but I think brandishing in an open carry state would require either the gun to be removed in an open carry state or their to be some type of intent to show the holstered gun from concealment.

If it's a CC state, like Texas, I've been told merely the sight of a holstered gun or excessive printing could be considered brandishing. Doubt it'd stick, but you know what I'm getting at. "

I just read Texas Law site and you are right. Texas is strange, law says you can shoot just about anybody, anywhere, for just about any reason but heaven help you if they see your gun or holster when you go to pay a cashier!

They can use deadly force to protect property and can do it anywhere somebody will say it was okay by them! Castle Doctrine extends to not only your property, but any kinfolk's or good friend's property. But don't let that 1911 print through your sweater and jacket, short rope and tall tree a' comin!

"Sundown, you better take care..."

To me this is like saying... "If you kill someone... we dont want to know about it."

[strickj]

Wow! All I can say is what a bunch of ****ing *******s!

[DaveTN]

It could also be that the cop saw it and did it as a joke. (I would do something like that).

But then if he put in there that the cop was smiling or said “No man, I’m just messin’ with you; have a nice nightâ€; it wouldn’t have had the same forum effect.