Vacuum sealers

[peejman]

24 minutes ago, prag said:

Not to side track or anything, but what bags are you folks using?

I've only ever used Food Saver brand, and they work well. But I just received a 3 roll order off Amazon and they've gone up in price $6.00 since my last order in Aug. 2016.

We've used Food Saver and ziplock brand with no problems. 

[JAB]

For those who dehydrate, do you have any experience with how long dehydrated meat in 'jerky' form will last if stored in vacuum sealed bags?  How about things like 'hamburger rocks' stored in vacuum sealed jars?  I have a medium sized chest freezer that was pretty well full that died on me a couple of weeks ago.  Luckily, my mom has a larger chest freezer that didn't have a lot in it so I was able to take my stuff to her house so I wouldn't lose it all but it really drove home the unreliability of electric appliances.  I had already been wanting to move away from needing a freezer for longer term storage.  I have my grandmother's old pressure canner and have canned some things but there are some items that would be better candidates for dehydrating/vacuum sealing than canning.

I bought an old - and I mean old - Food Saver sealer at an estate sale a few years back.  Paid nine bucks - yeah, $9 - for the sealer and a partial roll of unsealed bag material.  The sealer was just a basic model even when it came out and is old enough that you have to press down on the hinged lid in order to activate the vacuum.  It is old enough that the body of the sealer is made of white, tan and brown plastic rather than the 'sleek' looking black plastic and (I guess) stainless steel that new models are made of.  There is no 'push button to seal' on this one.  It is also old enough that after I used it a few times the rubber strips along the edges of the lid and bottom which allow a strong vacuum to form stopped sealing very well and so I put my equivalency degree in redneck engineering to work and sort of fixed that by using a couple of strips of narrow, self adhesive (on one side) weather stripping and placing the on the original, rubber seal lines.  Got it working, again but it really isn't ideal.  The cutter doesn't work very well, either.  Basically, I spend $9 for a 'trial' to see if I even liked or would use a vacuum sealer.  The answer is, "Yes," and I got enough usage out of it to be worth $9.  For one thing, when I fire my smoker I like to really smoke a lot of stuff to make it worth the effort.  I found that smoked chicken breast, allowed to cool, sealed in a vacuum bag and placed in the freezer for as long as a year and a half (forgot it was in the freezer) or maybe longer will, once thawed, taste just as fresh as chicken smoked in the same batch and eaten right away.  Now I am just trying to decide how many 'whistles and bells' I want and which ones are worth paying extra for.  I know I want the jar sealer option.

Edited March 2, 2017 by JAB

[peejman]

I think my food saver is similar to what @JAB found. Mine is a 550, which appears to go for about $30 on eBay. It still works fine. 

[Jamie Jackson]

Jab;

I do dehydrate, but have no experience dehydrating meats...but I pressure can the devil outta meats!

I've pressure canned everything from smoked sausage, beef, venison, pork, turkey, chicken and even figured out how to pressure can bacon bit & pieces. I know that's not what you're asking and just wanted to mention the option.

We have 2 chest freezers and of course generator backups. But we, as you mentioned, accept the unreliability of electrical appliances.

I too would be interested to learn of other's experiences with dehydrating meats and the usable lifespan they expect.

 

I'm interested in trying my hand at biltong, but honestly can't afford current beef prices to experiment with the process.

South African biltong: http://www.sa-austin.com/blog/2014/04/making-traditional-south-african-biltong-1400.html

[peejman]

I vacuum seal lots of smoked meat and freeze it.  It's been fine after about 2 years.  

We recently got a dehydrator but have only done fruit. I love jerky and would like to try jerky but haven't had an entire day to try it yet. 

We also recently got a pressure canner but again have only done veggies, pickles, relish, etc. 

As with @prag, meat is awfully expensive to experiment with and screw it up. I'd really like to try venison but that would require hunting, which I haven't been able to manage either...  maybe this fall. 

[JAB]

Oh, pressure canning meat is no problem.  I haven't done a whole lot of just meat alone but have done several things with meat in them - soups, stews, chili and the like.  You just have to be aware that there are some things you aren't supposed to include.  For instance, one of the first things I ever canned was home made chicken noodle soup - complete with fresh, home-made noodles.  I ate it and was just fine but have since read that you aren't supposed to include pasta in things that you home can.  What I have read is that you should can everything else and then add pasta when you are heating the soup up.  I have also read that you shouldn't put sage and similar seasonings in things you are going to can - not because it will go bad but because the sage might overwhelm everything else and/or develop a weird flavor.

As to dehydrating, last October I dehydrated a bag of frozen soup vegetables and a family sized pack of beef stew cubes.  I broke the veggies down into roughly portion sizes and put them into zipper-seal type bags and put the meat into a separate, zipper seal bag.  Neither were vacuum sealed as I was making the soup mix for a camping trip I was going on that weekend.  One thing I learned was that you shouldn't season stuff before dehydrating.  I put what I considered a very small amount of salt on the veggies but when I rehydrated them the resultant soup was waaaaay too salty to eat.  Lesson learned.  As for the meat, I didn't use all of it.  Come to think of it, I actually smoked it to a level of completely done before I put it in my cheapo dehydrator.  I ended up deciding to use part of it as treats for my dog (the meat wasn't overly salty.)  Each time I would give her a piece I would break it open, inspect it and smell it to see how it was faring.  After at least a month - actually probably a little more than a month - just sitting on a shelf with no refrigeration the meat was still just as good as the day I put it in the bag.  I even tasted one of the last pieces just to be sure.  Of course, that was smoked (although not cold smoked) and dried so it was almost like preserving a ham or something except without the curing solution.  Anyhow, the point is (relative to this thread) I would feel okay eating jerky that was prepared right (which for me would mean marinated and smoked), dehydrated well and vacuum sealed after probably at least two months with no refrigeration as long as there were no tell-tale signs that something was 'off'.  I am just wondering if anyone has experience with meat staying 'good' even longer.

Edited March 2, 2017 by JAB

[Mark A]

I got a sales ad a couple of days ago about a sale at Cabela's. I think it starts on the 9th. I'm pretty sure their 15" commercial version is on sale for $150 off and there is a mid-grade one on sale as well. I just can't remember which one and I'm on the road until Friday afternoon.

Mark

 

 

Edited March 10, 2017 by Mark A

[Mark A]

JAB, what I have seen with vacuum packed jerky is if it isn't clean break crispy dry when you vacuum pack it it will pull any liquid out of the meat. The first time it happened to me I took a couple of good smells and  then took a very small bite. It didn't kill me and I ate the rest just fine.

 

I just looked like I did when I pulled the trigger on my first reload. I was as far away from my pistol as I could physically be and still touch the trigger.

 

The guy shooting next me laughed and said he did the same thing on shooting his first reload

Mark

[MacGyver]

This thread is full of great information!

[monkeylizard]

I have the jar sealer adapter (standard and wide mouth versions) for the FoodSaver. It pulls a good seal on Mason jars, but the seal doesn't seem to stay for very long. I use it to store flour and sugar in large Mason jars. I've cleaned the lids and the lip of the jars very well, but can't seem to get a seal to keep for more than a few days. Sometimes they pop after just a few minutes. Using or not using rings seems to make little difference.

Maybe something's wrong with my FoodSaver when using the hose. When I seal jars, it gives a loud "clunk" and the unit jumps a little right at the end of the vacuum process. I don't get that same result when sealing bags. when using bags, the vacuum motor just stops and the heater starts. I'm not sure if that "clunk" is an indicator of failing to get a good seal, and why my lids pop so quickly. Still, some lids stay put for months and are sealed up tight when I go to use them. they also "clunk"ed because it always does it when using the jar adapter.

Does anyone else use the jar adapter with a FoodSaver, and if so do you get the "clunk" sound at the end of the process?

Edited March 9, 2017 by monkeylizard

[Mark A]

Can't comment on using the Foodsaver brand but we find that we have much more success with lids that have been used once to pressure or water bath can. They have a well defined ring depression that fits a little more sung than new lids.

Hope that helps, Mark

[Mark A]

Here is a link to the sale: Cabela's

[Jamie Jackson]

16 hours ago, monkeylizard said:

I have the jar sealer adapter (standard and wide mouth versions) for the FoodSaver. It pulls a good seal on Mason jars, but the seal doesn't seem to stay for very long. I use it to store flour and sugar in large Mason jars. I've cleaned the lids and the lip of the jars very well, but can't seem to get a seal to keep for more than a few days. Sometimes they pop after just a few minutes. Using or not using rings seems to make little difference.

Maybe something's wrong with my FoodSaver when using the hose. When I seal jars, it gives a loud "clunk" and the unit jumps a little right at the end of the vacuum process. I don't get that same result when sealing bags. when using bags, the vacuum motor just stops and the heater starts. I'm not sure if that "clunk" is an indicator of failing to get a good seal, and why my lids pop so quickly. Still, some lids stay put for months and are sealed up tight when I go to use them. they also "clunk"ed because it always does it when using the jar adapter.

Does anyone else use the jar adapter with a FoodSaver, and if so do you get the "clunk" sound at the end of the process?

I don't own a Food Saver brand (wish I did) but have a 12 year old Black & Decker model. I don't have a jar attachment for it. 

So why the heck is Prag posting this!? 

I still vac seal dried foods in jars by tossing in one 500 cc o2 absorber into pint jars and two 500cc o2 absorbers into quart jars, place the new lid on and screw the ring down. I get an excellent vac seal this way. I've opened a couple of jars within the past month that I initially sealed in 2011 and the vacuum was well intact and the foods in excellent condition. 

I keep the o2 absorbers vac sealed (I purchase a few hundred at a time), prep my jars, open the o2 absorbers and toss the appropriate number in my jars, lid 'em and reseal the o2 absorbers ... this has worked for several years now. fwiw these are the same o2 absorbers I use in my Mylar bags & buckets for food storage.

I just wanted folks that are considering storing foods that there are additional options available.

Of course when the B&D unit finally dies, it'll be replaced with a Food Saver brand unit...one day... 

[monkeylizard]

Costco often has a great deal on FoodSavers. They'll have a sale on a pretty good model several times a year.

[Sidecarist]

I did get the Food saver jar sealing kit and it works just fine with the Weston 2300 I have (Thanks Mark A!). It looks like using lids that have been through a heat cycle will help keep the seal tight longer. I tried new lids and its Ok, but a lid that was heated in hot water then screwed down tight for a few minutes then dried and then vacuum sealed is holding tight enough that the wife can't remove it and it isn't too easy for me...

We will be experimenting with things like keeping pre-made salads longer than one day, as well as using it to keep our bulk spices etc. longer. I'm going to try it on our next honey harvest too.

I'm sure that as time passes we will find many uses.

[Jamie Jackson]

Just chiming back in to say thanks to Sidecarist.

That's interesting info about your experience with the jar lids. As I mentioned above, I'm currently using o2 absorbers and had excellent results with new lids.

But as we eventually transition to a Food Saver brand unit I'll definitely be using a jar attachment, so I'm filing away this tip for later on. Much obliged. 

[Sidecarist]

I was really surprised at the difference. The only reason I thought of it was someone else had mentioned earlier that once used lids seemed to work better. For long term storage I prefer new to avoid any chance of contaminates in the food.

Interesting tip about the O2 absorbers creating a vacuum as well. I don't think I would have thought of that.

[Jamie Jackson]

It's great info Sidecarist. I wouldn't have thought of preheating or pre-softening lids myself..so you've saved me some frustration I'm certain.

 

LOL. I've never had an "original thought" in my life I'm sure. I read about the o2 absorbers on Frugal's Forum many years ago. 

[JAB]

For the jar sealer, I have read in several reviews that it works much better on wide mouthed jars than on regular mouthed jars (apparently there are two, different sealer adapters - one for wide mouth and one for regular.)  I have no idea why and haven't yet tried it out for myself but, as I said, I have read where several people who have actually used them found that to be the case.

Prag, where have you found to be the best place to get the O2 absorbers?  Is there a particular 'brand' you use?  Also, how quickly do you have to re-vacuum seal the unused ones in order to keep them from losing effectiveness?  In other words, do you have to take several out and immediately reseal or can you leave them unsealed long enough to use what you need out of the pack and then reseal?  I have seen them available on Amazon but haven't ordered any because they seem expensive in smaller numbers and I know I would never use something like a 100 pack in one session.  Also, do you have any recommendations on a good source and/or brand for mylar bags?  Those just seal up with the vacuum sealer like the regular bags, right?  Do you put a vacuum on them or just seal them (I have seen on YouTube where some people just seal them with an iron.)

Do you basically use the mylar bags to make your own version of Mountain House type meals or do you use them for single-item storage?  I think it would be interesting if - in this or a companion thread - some who are more experienced with preserving home-made equivalents of Mountain House type meals either in mylar or in regular, vacuum seal bags would share some recipes with the rest of us for things that have worked well for longer term, shelf stable storage.  As I said, before, I like canning but the problem with canning is that the jars start to take up a lot of room after only canning a few, different things - especially if you have two or more runs of each thing.  Vacuum bags or mylar bags seem like they would be easier to store.  It would also be easier to keep a small container of them in a vehicle for 'just in case'.

I have also seen on YouTube where people make such meals using commercially freeze-dried, shelf stable ingredients they purchased from a commercial supplier.  I specifically remember that one lady had a big, glass jar of freeze-dried chicken sitting on her counter that she used in making one of the meals that she was sealing in mylar bags.  Anyone have any experience using anything like that?

Edited March 14, 2017 by JAB

[Sidecarist]

I did buy both sizes of jar sealers. The way they fit jar is with a rubber seal around the edge of the sealer that seals against the side of the jar just below the threads. Without this seal I don't think it would pull a vacuum at all . You will need the smaller attachment if you use the smaller jelly jars etc. I plan on using it for Honey. Not to preserve it but rather to help pull the tiny air bubbles out of the honey faster after bottling. Depending on temps and the honey the air can take days to rise to the top and make the honey look cloudy when its not.

I think the mylar bags are more for light proofness than sealing. I would think that you could make your own meals in standard bags if you then store them in a light tight box.

It will be interesting to see what others have to say on this....

[Mark A]

Sidecarist, please keep us updated on the salad experiment. To me it seems counterintuitive as the vacuum would draw moisture out of the lettuce causing it to wilt sooner. My wife makes up her lunch salads on Sunday and in addition to washing and spinning the lettuce she also put a small piece of damp paper towel on top to keep the veggies hydrated. We've also started using chopped kale and shredded broccoli stems in place of some of the lettuce. They seem to hold up a bit better.

JAB, get thyself to the sporting goods stores and pick up some hand warmers while they are on clearance. They are cheaper than dedicated O2 absorbers, are packaged in packs of one or two, and are the same thing.

 

Mark

Edited March 15, 2017 by Mark A

[Jamie Jackson]

On 3/14/2017 at 3:32 PM, JAB said:

 

Prag, where have you found to be the best place to get the O2 absorbers?  Is there a particular 'brand' you use?  Also, how quickly do you have to re-vacuum seal the unused ones in order to keep them from losing effectiveness?  In other words, do you have to take several out and immediately reseal or can you leave them unsealed long enough to use what you need out of the pack and then reseal?  I have seen them available on Amazon but haven't ordered any because they seem expensive in smaller numbers and I know I would never use something like a 100 pack in one session.  Also, do you have any recommendations on a good source and/or brand for mylar bags?  Those just seal up with the vacuum sealer like the regular bags, right?  Do you put a vacuum on them or just seal them (I have seen on YouTube where some people just seal them with an iron.)

Do you basically use the mylar bags to make your own version of Mountain House type meals or do you use them for single-item storage?  I think it would be interesting if - in this or a companion thread - some who are more experienced with preserving home-made equivalents of Mountain House type meals either in mylar or in regular, vacuum seal bags would share some recipes with the rest of us for things that have worked well for longer term, shelf stable storage.  As I said, before, I like canning but the problem with canning is that the jars start to take up a lot of room after only canning a few, different things - especially if you have two or more runs of each thing.  Vacuum bags or mylar bags seem like they would be easier to store.  It would also be easier to keep a small container of them in a vehicle for 'just in case'.

I have also seen on YouTube where people make such meals using commercially freeze-dried, shelf stable ingredients they purchased from a commercial supplier.  I specifically remember that one lady had a big, glass jar of freeze-dried chicken sitting on her counter that she used in making one of the meals that she was sealing in mylar bags.  Anyone have any experience using anything like that?

There isn't any particular brand I use Jab. I have purchased from Sorbent Systems and Ready Made Resources in the past. But I haven't purchased any in about 4-5 years. My last purchase was for several hundred of the 500 cc sized. I opened them and re-vac sealed them into 100 count bags. I had my vac seal bags cut and ready to go before opening and repackaging...so they only have exposure to the air for about 10 minutes...this apparently didn't effect their efficacy in any way.

For use in my jars, generally foods I've dehydrated in my Excalibur unit...I fill my jars, have lids & rings at the ready...open the o2 absorbers, remove and toss the appropriate number (for the jar size) into the jars, place their lids on and re-vac seal the bag of absorbers. I've repeated this process several times and always get a solid and distinctive "plink" when the lids seal.

 

As regards Mylar. I purchase purpose made for food storage Mylar bags for use in lining food grade plastic buckets. I place the bags into the buckets first, fill them with the desired food items...rice, beans. pasta, whole red winter wheat, instant mashed potatoes in vac sealed bags, seasonings, etc...sometimes a combination of items so that one 5 gallon bucket with Mylar bag contains a weeks supply of meal preparations for 2 people. Other buckets single type food items. These are my "Long Term" buckets and I'll toss in 5-6 500cc absorbers, press out all of the air I can and I use an aluminum level and a dedicated electric iron to seal the Mylar bags. I generally wait several hours to insure the vac seal takes, then place the bucket lids back on.

The oxygen depleted vac sealed bags are what preserves the food...the buckets reduce the likelihood of bag puncture, rodent nibbling, and made storage and movement easier.

There's lots of YT videos on the method. I'm working a long stretch just now, but I'll either add links or start a thread on this my next days off.

 

I've read of hand warmers being recommended before, but I have never tried them. I'm confident with my current system and components.

I'll also address my experiences with one gallon sized bags and single meals when I have more time...Sorry, gotta go make money to pay the bills. 

Edited March 16, 2017 by prag
spelling....again...

[JAB]

Thanks for the replies, prag!  For the mylar, I was more wondering about the smaller bags people use for creating individual or family serving meals like the Mountain House meals people take camping, etc.  It sounds like you are going larger scale than that with your mylar usage.  I think I am still a little ways away from getting into large-scale storage in buckets.   

[Jamie Jackson]

I'm happy to share any first hand experiences JAB. I encourage everyone to be as food self sufficient as possible. I know our food storage and preps have helped us through more than one tough stretch of life.

I do have some items stored in one gallon Mylar bags and I've toyed with making "mountain House"-like meals. Of course being a mixture of home dehydrated and store bought dehydrated foods. Freeze dried foods will have a much longer shelf life done this way, and will generally require less water to rehydrate and eat. It's hard to beat the quality, taste, and ease of preparation of the single or family serving Mountain bags...

But if you want to make short-term homemade "meals", say for a weekend camping trip, that's certainly a doable thing. I'll attach a link or two on it. But storing any type of quality protein (meat) for any length of time, is best done, imho, using freeze dried products...in this context.

An option is to purchase a #10 can and repackage it.

 

This site has some good info regarding preparing "backpacking" meals:

 http://www.backpackingchef.com/

http://www.backpackingchef.com/backpacking-recipes.html

 

The majority of the one gallon bags I have stored include a variety of foods ... dehydrated already cooked beans, rice, and even coffee. I keep these in a relatively large plastic tote for carrying along in a quick leaving home scenario. But I also keep some Mountain House and Wise packets in the tote that I've purchased in online sales.

 

If/when you try some of the "meals" linked, please give us some feedback.  Gotta coffee up and get to work. 

[Mark A]

I was in a couple of Home Depot's over the weekend. They had a big box of hand and feet warmers on clearance. The hand warmers were 10 pair for $6.00 and the feet ones were 5 pair for $6.00

These come wrapped in individual packets so no worrying about opening and resealing a big bag...