Failed background check

[Reservoir Dog]

6 hours ago, JayC said:

Now how exactly does he get a HCP but can't pass the background check to purchase a firearm?

That's because the background for the HCP is more thorough, and less likely to get a false positive.  TICS checks go off your name, DOB, SSN; so someone with a criminal record that has a similar name, DOB, and SSN can trigger a denial.  In addition to those identifiers, HCP backgrounds use your fingerprints, which is a much more reliable method of checking for criminal records.

[JayC]

1 minute ago, Reservoir Dog said:

That's because the background for the HCP is more thorough, and less likely to get a false positive.  TICS checks go off your name, DOB, SSN; so someone with a criminal record that has a similar name, DOB, and SSN can trigger a denial.  In addition to those identifiers, HCP backgrounds use your fingerprints, which is a much more reliable method of checking for criminal records.

Then why doesn't the TBI look at HCP data and only flag items that have dates more recent than your last HCP renewal?  They have access to that data.

The point is TICS has a much higher false positive rate than the national system, which doesn't cost $10 per firearm.

[Oh Shoot]

53 minutes ago, JayC said:

....

The point is TICS has a much higher false positive rate than the national system, which doesn't cost $10 per firearm.

Just for pedantic accuracy, it's $10 per 4473, not per firearm.

- OS

[JayC]

On 2/20/2017 at 0:33 PM, DaveTN said:

TBI would probably like nothing better than to be able to keep records. My understanding is (although I haven’t checked) it’s illegal.

They should HAVE to explain to him why he is being denied. But they don’t.

Doesn't stop them from checking the TDOS HCP list which is public record.  And I believe appeals records are kept for longer than 48 hours and this is legal under the law, but I maybe mistaken on that.

On 2/20/2017 at 7:48 PM, Oh Shoot said:

Just for pedantic accuracy, it's $10 per 4473, not per firearm.

- OS

Agreed, I stand corrected.

[GlockSpock]

Agreed, I stand corrected.

TN HCP list was made private a few years back wasn't it?


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[JayC]

16 minutes ago, CZ9MM said:

 

TN HCP list was made private a few years back wasn't it?


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Not really.

[tbradnc]

To wrap this up - I finally got this straightened out and was able to buy my gun today.     

The backstory is this:  My appeal was denied and the denial letter gave the reason as being convicted of a felony..     In the 1970's I was charged with a drug felony, sentenced as a 1st offender, completed probation released, and had no felony on my record.   I've lived my entire life thinking that was buried and in the past.    Here's the scary part:   in 2014 the 1st Offender Discharge was removed from my record and I suddenly appeared to be a felon and that's why I failed the background check.   How this happened no one is sure.     Getting it back on my record required a judge to sign a new 1st offender discharge release and that took some doing and some time but I was able to get it done and that fixed the problem.    It was really something digging all this back up from my teenage years - it was before the computer age and all of my files at the courthouse were in storage.    All the players were dead or retired...

During the process of sorting this out I was able to connect with a friendly TBI supervisor who gave me her phone number.    As soon as the 1st Offender Discharge was added back to my criminal record I called her and she reversed the denial while we were on the phone and emailed the gun dealer clearing me to buy the gun.    She assured me I'd pass background checks going forward.   About an hour later the store called telling me I could come get my gun..   

 

Edited March 4, 2017 by tbradnc

[i1afli]

Wow...interesting. 

Strange how things can suddenly get changed without reason, but someone somewhere is responsible for that discharge getting removed.   Makes you wonder. 

Glad you got it straightened out.

Thanks for the update. 

[tbradnc]

Yes, and there is no explanation of why my record was changed   The best guess was that it took until 2014 for the county to get the records for the year of my conviction computerized and that the 1st offender release was not with my records when they manually added them to the database.

I had to prove all over again that I didn't have a felony conviction.    It wasn't possible for them to say, "Oh, we made a mistake in 2014 and we'll fix it."    I actually had to get a Superior Court judge to sign a totally new 1st offender release form.   

Basically I was told "All we can see is what we can see and we don't see a 1st offender release for you.   We can't take your word for it, you need a judge to sign one".

 

 

[Camaro_nut2001]

I'm glad you got it straightened out. I would hang on to your proof as you may get denied again in the future. I have never been in trouble and still got denied, lol, but it was overturned. For what reason I may never know. Thanks for letting us know the outcome!!

Edited March 4, 2017 by Camaro_nut2001
Forgot to add something.

[tnhawk]

Last weekend I was in north MS and saw a rifle I wanted to purchase.  The NICS came back with a delay.  Their website provides no information other than suggesting waiting 30 days to file an appeal. I never received  any information from the NICS on the reason for the delay or result.  The dealer called a four days later to ask if I still wanted the rifle as the hold was lifted.

[hkusp40cal]

21 hours ago, tnhawk said:

Last weekend I was in north MS and saw a rifle I wanted to purchase.  The NICS came back with a delay.  Their website provides no information other than suggesting waiting 30 days to file an appeal. I never received  any information from the NICS on the reason for the delay or result.  The dealer called a four days later to ask if I still wanted the rifle as the hold was lifted.

If you ever held a government clearance this will happen to you quite a bit.  When I lived in NH it happened all the time.  For pistols they used state police checks and I was always approved instantly.  For long guns they used NICS and I always was delayed.  After looking into it I was told it was due to having been fingerprinted in the federal system which flags you for a deeper check.

[n0rlf]

Shortly after the NICS boondoggle was brought into being I was delayed every time. It was usually 5 to 10 minutes later before the call came back clearing it. This happened at the gun store where I worked part time. Finally go thte answer as to why and it seems when I got out of the military they automatically revoked my secret clearances. That revoking was what was trigger the delay and when they found it was a normal military exit that was the reason they cleared it. That went on for several years and I just got used to it. Then all of a sudden it stopped and I started getting approved on the spot. I never questioned that part so not sure why they all of a sudden figured it out. Typical government functioninaries and systems is what i figured.

[tnhawk]

I did have security clearances during active and reserve duty.  The holds were on purchases in MS and GA.  TN purchases haven't been a problem. 

Has anyone filed a Voluntary Appeal File Application with NICS?  It requires providing information and fingerprints to prove identity.

[Fallguy]

On 9/24/2017 at 7:17 AM, hkusp40cal said:

If you ever held a government clearance this will happen to you quite a bit.  When I lived in NH it happened all the time.  For pistols they used state police checks and I was always approved instantly.  For long guns they used NICS and I always was delayed.  After looking into it I was told it was due to having been fingerprinted in the federal system which flags you for a deeper check.

 

22 hours ago, tnhawk said:

I did have security clearances during active and reserve duty.  The holds were on purchases in MS and GA.  TN purchases haven't been a problem. 

Has anyone filed a Voluntary Appeal File Application with NICS?  It requires providing information and fingerprints to prove identity.

Interesting... I too have been fingerprinted on a Federal level for work, but have only had checks through TICS with no problem.  Make me wonder if I ever go through a NICS chceck....

[Omega]

I have my prints and DNA in the Federal System, but never had any issues getting guns (long or short) in NC, GA, KY, or TN.  It may be because I have never had my clearance "Revoked" per se, though it's been lowered and raised multiple times.

[hkusp40cal]

Could be, mine was after I left the AF and DoD contracting so I was read out of the programs.