Anything online as good as Amazon

[DaveTN]

11 hours ago, Rightwinger said:

I'll ask it again....when one of you sets the bar that we can all debate then we can talk.  Whats the freaking bar.  What's the limit of to much?

Those workers don't put any skin in the game but showing up.  They don't invest in it, put risk capitol out there but always got the hand out there demanding more.

I'm sorry, and although I am "the man" management, I don't make a hell of a lot more than what they can with OT.  Where is making a profit obscene and no longer "fair"?  If it were the sweat of your brow on a company you ran or managed, I bet your idealism would change a bunch.  I wish I could charge every employee at my place that damages product, equipment or heck hits a freaking girder beam with their forklift.  Even if it were 5% they would feel the pinch of the budget finally on them, but no, they just show up when they want, will refuse overtime because it will push them out of EBT range.  I take care of my employees even though they could care less about how my reviews are judged by their actions.  And BTQ, it will never be capitalist if govt is involved in the process.    I'm getting tired of being told we don't make enough.  If I actually paid some of these folks what they did in actual value some days, they would be writing the company a check instead of the other way around.  There it's out in the open.  Discuss

That’s up to the individual based on where they are and the education they have to decide. If EBT cards is an issues it doesn’t sound like you are in a skilled trades or manufacturing environment. If they can go somewhere else and get more money; they should do it. Is your company employing illegals?

With the state of Tennessee handing out College tuition to almost anyone that wants it (at our expense) there is no excuse for anyone with the least little bit of drive or work ethic to not be able to better themselves.

I don’t care if you have employees making the $7.25 hr minimum wage or $30 hour; it will never be enough. They have to go where the work is and make their skills be a value to the company.

When/If the powers running the show now can bring manufacturing jobs back to this country it will require people that can be trained and will show up to work every day. I believe those people are out there. The rest will remain at places that let them get by with whatever they want and they will be paid accordingly.

[btq96r]

11 hours ago, Rightwinger said:

So no number stated for what's to much for a company or individual to make.

Want's govt to step in and determine wages rather than market and individuals determining their "value"

You are correct that companies don't pay for jobs that are not needed.  Their sole purpose is to MAKE MONEY, all other value is determined by those that want their product or services.

I think you just need to come out and admit you want a socialist style society which has proven over and over won't work.

It can't be pegged to a specific number, because each company will be different.  But there should be a minimum wage that puts full time work at a good middle class level, and a benefits package that is at least partially funded by the company for full time workers, and a government administered option that people who have to work 2 or more jobs to get full time equivalence can buy into.  Companies should continue to chip into that government benefits system based on how many part time workers they employ, because we know that some companies will cut hours to avoid having workers classified as full time and qualifying for benefits...the ACA proved this.  After taking care of workers so we have a strong and sustained middle class, and of course paying taxes, then the company can enjoy profits, distributing to shareholders and partners as they see fit.

You can keep saying I want it to be socialist all you want, that's just you applying the word as you see fit.  I want private industry to be regulated, strongly, but I don't want government owning the means of industry which is a core tenet of socialism.  All the govt should determine is a flat minimum wage and benefits to make sure full time work is properly compensated.  Free industry would cull any unneeded jobs because as we both agree, unneeded positions wouldn't be worth the cost. 

Then, you can index the welfare payments below what a full time job would provide as a means to incentivize work over welfare.  I don't see a way the reverse order fixes both problems.

[Rightwinger]

3 hours ago, mikegideon said:

Fun watching this conversation. I remember when you had two jobs.

Yeah, I think I took a few years off my life with that period of time and the schedule but it needed to be done.  Needed more money, wanted some more guns too.  Went to work. 

[mikegideon]

4 minutes ago, btq96r said:

It can't be pegged to a specific number, because each company will be different.  But there should be a minimum wage that puts full time work at a good middle class level, and a benefits package that is at least partially funded by the company for full time workers, and a government administered option that people who have to work 2 or more jobs to get full time equivalence can buy into.  Companies should continue to chip into that government benefits system based on how many part time workers they employ, because we know that some companies will cut hours to avoid having workers classified as full time and qualifying for benefits...the ACA proved this.  After taking care of workers so we have a strong and sustained middle class, and of course paying taxes, then the company can enjoy profits, distributing to shareholders and partners as they see fit.

You can keep saying I want it to be socialist all you want, that's just you applying the word as you see fit.  I want private industry to be regulated, strongly, but I don't want government owning the means of industry which is a core tenet of socialism.  All the govt should determine is a flat minimum wage and benefits to make sure full time work is properly compensated.  Free industry would cull any unneeded jobs because as we both agree, unneeded positions wouldn't be worth the cost. 

Then, you can index the welfare payments below what a full time job would provide as a means to incentivize work over welfare.  I don't see a way the reverse order fixes both problems.

You are aware that Trump is taking a minigun to regulations, right? 

[mikegideon]

1 minute ago, Rightwinger said:

Yeah, I think I took a few years off my life with that period of time and the schedule but it needed to be done.  Needed more money, wanted some more guns too.  Went to work. 

You should have just vote for Obama, so he could give you a raise out of that #### economy he created. Everybody got raises, remember?

[Rightwinger]

3 hours ago, DaveTN said:

That’s up to the individual based on where they are and the education they have to decide. If EBT cards is an issues it doesn’t sound like you are in a skilled trades or manufacturing environment. If they can go somewhere else and get more money; they should do it. Is your company employing illegals?

With the state of Tennessee handing out College tuition to almost anyone that wants it (at our expense) there is no excuse for anyone with the least little bit of drive or work ethic to not be able to better themselves.

I don’t care if you have employees making the $7.25 hr minimum wage or $30 hour; it will never be enough. They have to go where the work is and make their skills be a value to the company.

When/If the powers running the show now can bring manufacturing jobs back to this country it will require people that can be trained and will show up to work every day. I believe those people are out there. The rest will remain at places that let them get by with whatever they want and they will be paid accordingly.

The EBT thing has been mentioned to me several times when we are needing extra folks.  I can't ask if they are on them or not.  Seems funny that everyone demanding more money that has access to more work to get it but then deny it are just not willing to do what is needed.  No, my company is an international corporation providing 3rd party logistics support to anyone that needs it.  My particular location is a warehouse storing items before they go to production.  I have fork lift operators.  Is it skilled, no, but you have to have some skills.  NO ILLEGALs ever, not even considered.  Heck one of the issue I have is the background check winnows out to many and takes to long.

On the college thing, agreed, if you want an education now, you can get help.  I don't agree that it's needed.  I could do everything I've done in life without the degree be it the military or logisitics.

Agreed on the dollar amount.!1

We can bring back manufacturing but until folks stop looking up with envy at those that make more they are always going to want more.

 

[Rightwinger]

9 minutes ago, btq96r said:

It can't be pegged to a specific number, because each company will be different.  But there should be a minimum wage that puts full time work at a good middle class level, and a benefits package that is at least partially funded by the company for full time workers, and a government administered option that people who have to work 2 or more jobs to get full time equivalence can buy into.  Companies should continue to chip into that government benefits system based on how many part time workers they employ, because we know that some companies will cut hours to avoid having workers classified as full time and qualifying for benefits...the ACA proved this.  After taking care of workers so we have a strong and sustained middle class, and of course paying taxes, then the company can enjoy profits, distributing to shareholders and partners as they see fit.

You can keep saying I want it to be socialist all you want, that's just you applying the word as you see fit.  I want private industry to be regulated, strongly, but I don't want government owning the means of industry which is a core tenet of socialism.  All the govt should determine is a flat minimum wage and benefits to make sure full time work is properly compensated.  Free industry would cull any unneeded jobs because as we both agree, unneeded positions wouldn't be worth the cost. 

Then, you can index the welfare payments below what a full time job would provide as a means to incentivize work over welfare.  I don't see a way the reverse order fixes both problems.

Your right, each company is different but there is a minimum wage already and it's setting the bar.  I fail to see why each company should have a variable standard as to what is to much.  You should be able to easily come up with a number that is the magic level.  The one that has the employee happy, the company happy, there just has to be a fix!  When you come up with it let me know.

Your not even close to real world but since you've graduated.....IF you move up in a business, you will start to see.

You want to end a business, have the govt regulate it more.

[btq96r]

1 hour ago, mikegideon said:

You are aware that Trump is taking a minigun to regulations, right? 

I know.  He should be using a scalpel, but this is President Trump and we all know he isn't a details guy at this stage in life.  So the minigun it is with Steve Bannon and friends working the T&E mechanism.

 

1 hour ago, Rightwinger said:

Your right, each company is different but there is a minimum wage already and it's setting the bar.  I fail to see why each company should have a variable standard as to what is to much.  You should be able to easily come up with a number that is the magic level.  The one that has the employee happy, the company happy, there just has to be a fix!  When you come up with it let me know.

Your not even close to real world but since you've graduated.....IF you move up in a business, you will start to see.

You want to end a business, have the govt regulate it more.

The minimum wage is a half assed solution as it stands.  Unless you want to argue that $15,080 ($7.25 minimum wage * 2080 hours) is enough of an annual salary to live on where the federal standard is the floor.  There are regional cost of living variables, and while some states and cities are active in managing this, others aren't at all.  I get that changing the minimum wage will have 2nd and 3rd order effects in the economy, but I'm not too sad about the possibility of super sized meals getting pricier or people not being able to get a new TV or cell phone on a whim.  Might get people out of the service industry and needing to find another job where the economy needs more hands.  It would also put more disposable income into the economy for business to compete over.

Another pillar of this is re-looking any and all free trade deals...one of the few items on the Trump Administration agenda I agree with and hope happens sooner rather than later.

I guess you tell me when I'm close enough to the real world for your liking.  Till then, I'll just go to my job M-F and do what's expected (and more as I'm able) to justify the pay and benefits I'm fortunate to have.

[mikegideon]

2 hours ago, btq96r said:

I know.  He should be using a scalpel, but this is President Trump and we all know he isn't a details guy at this stage in life.  So the minigun it is with Steve Bannon and friends working the T&E mechanism.

I'm old too. I love what Trump is doing.

[TerryW]

I thought after the minimum wage, fair market determined pay?  If a business can't get or keep workers at a particular wage, they have to raise the wage to fill it or they go out of business.  I am the only one in my family of 5 that is not in business for myself.  Minimum wage is just that, minimum.  My family will pay what they have to to get a job filled.  I don't understand why the Gooberment should have to get involved in the pay, they manage to F up everything they regulate.   

[Chucktshoes]

33 minutes ago, TerryW said:

I thought after the minimum wage, fair market determined pay?  If a business can't get or keep workers at a particular wage, they have to raise the wage to fill it or they go out of business.  I am the only one in my family of 5 that is not in business for myself.  Minimum wage is just that, minimum.  My family will pay what they have to to get a job filled.  I don't understand why the Gooberment should have to get involved in the pay, they manage to F up everything they regulate.   

You get out of here with that understanding of basic economic principles! 

[Rightwinger]

The minimum wage is a half assed solution as it stands

 

Again, you clearly are using emotion instead of facts and logic in your thinking.  Minimum wage was never a basis for a living but then we never had a society that didn't want to work like they don't now.  When you can't hire someone because you pay to much and they don't want to lose their Obama care and EBT then the safety net is to broad.  If you get only a GED or high school diploma, have a minimal attendance rating and don't care but seeing how much you can NOT do in 12 hours (yes our shifts are 12 hours, built in OT, shocking)....then you deserve to earn 10 bucks an hour and better learn to live on it.  Yet these same folks have smart phones and drive adequate cars.  Something ain't right but its not the minimum wage.  You keep doing your M-F.  You'll either figure it out or you won't.

[TerryW]

If you have ever had to make payroll, you'll get it.  

If you have ever had to make out P&L statements, you'll get it.

If you ever had the Gooberment stick their hands in everything your small business does, you'll get it.

Higher wages should be based on merit (merit = hard work) not the over reaching hand of the Gooberment. 

 

 

[TerryW]

Did you ever see an unhappy horse? Did you ever see bird that had the blues? One reason why birds and horses are not unhappy is because they are not trying to impress other birds and horses.

 Dale Carnegie 

 

[DaveTN]

EBT and minimum wage have zero impact on your company. If you can’t keep employees it’s because your company isn’t paying enough or it’s a messed up place to work.

Minimum wage is an attempt to keep the have nots from killing and eating the haves. Not many (if any) manufacturing companies pay minimum wage; those that do, do it because they are hiring illegals. Minimum wage is for fast foods and kid’s temporary jobs that are going to have a high turnover no matter what they do as their employees move into something else.

[macville]

On 2/6/2017 at 10:56 AM, TerryW said:

If you have ever had to make payroll, you'll get it.  

If you have ever had to make out P&L statements, you'll get it.

If you ever had the Gooberment stick their hands in everything your small business does, you'll get it.

Higher wages should be based on merit (merit = hard work) not the over reaching hand of the Gooberment. 

 

 

As a small business owner for over 10 years now, bingo.

 

I would disagree with the hard work statement as I think people misunderstand that. It's not just about hard work (hours or physical labor, one or both will apply) it's about smart work and most of the time, risk. I took a great risk 10 years ago and am now seeing the benefits. People want zero risk and want to put zero smart effort into their jobs these days. The ones that do are making good money.

[aldodds3]

Maybe getting past the desire to denigrate people with different views as Libtards or any other kind of tard. Maybe realize that there are a vast number of ways for people to be Americans without being tards as you so very very wittily put it.


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[mikegideon]

2 hours ago, aldodds3 said:

Maybe getting past the desire to denigrate people with different views as Libtards or any other kind of tard. Maybe realize that there are a vast number of ways for people to be Americans without being tards as you so very very wittily put it.


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Libtard is a real useful word these days...

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Libtard

[btq96r]

4 hours ago, aldodds3 said:

Maybe getting past the desire to denigrate people with different views as Libtards or any other kind of tard. Maybe realize that there are a vast number of ways for people to be Americans without being tards as you so very very wittily put it.


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I take it as a sign they have no meaningful counterargument, and accept that their resorting to a pejorative is just another way of offering their concession.

[mikegideon]

51 minutes ago, btq96r said:

I take it as a sign they have no meaningful counterargument, and accept that their resorting to a pejorative is just another way of offering their concession.

Counterargument? If you lived thru 8 years of Obama, and still want more, there is no counterargument. Have some more tofu. I don't hate you for being so wrong  

[aldodds3]

Libtard is a real useful word these days...
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Libtard

Useful for understanding the emotional age of the user. Same for tRUMPster, Cuckservative, etc. lets you know up front not to waste time on the user.


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[mikegideon]

29 minutes ago, aldodds3 said:

Useful for understanding the emotional age of the user. Same for tRUMPster, Cuckservative, etc. lets you know up front not to waste time on the user.


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Uhhh. You're wasting your time.