PSA breaks $400 AR Barrier

[Oh Shoot]

Maybe they already had, dunno, but just noticed:

complete upper (just need rear sight) 259.99:

http://palmettostatearmory.com/ptac-16-carbine-1-7-phosphate-upper-with-bcg-ch-516444459.html

Complete lower 139.99:

http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ar-15-complete-blem-lower-classic-edition-no-magazine.html

both with free shipping

- OS

 

Edited January 22, 2017 by Oh Shoot
speelling

[JoeCorrado]

I'd take one of these over a Del-Ton or DPMS everyday of the week for a good, cheap truck gun.

If only AK's would get this cheap again...

[ShamGlock]

They've been in this ballpark with the ptac line for awhile now. But, I agree with above, well worth it for a truck gun/beater AR.

[Defender]

My AR pistol is kinda higher end, so I've been keeping my eyes out to find a cheap AR pistol truck gun to try to trade for, but at this price I may have to spring for one.

[ARO Matt]

I'm not what you'd call an AR snob, but when you start pushing them into that $399, low end range, I'll pass.  Generally you get what you pay for, and I'd rather pay $700 for a beater that you can actually beat and not break.

[Omega]

1 minute ago, ARO Matt said:

I'm not what you'd call an AR snob, but when you start pushing them into that $399, low end range, I'll pass.  Generally you get what you pay for, and I'd rather pay $700 for a beater that you can actually beat and not break.

You would just be paying for a name then, PSA has some decent quality ARs, I see no difference between them and the Spikes, S&W ARs I have.  Its just that you are paying for an AR that is priced right.  If I didn't have the number of ARs I have right now, I would be getting one of theirs..still might, I have another wildcat I'm looking at.  

[ARO Matt]

2 hours ago, Omega said:

You would just be paying for a name then, PSA has some decent quality ARs, I see no difference between them and the Spikes, S&W ARs I have.  Its just that you are paying for an AR that is priced right.  If I didn't have the number of ARs I have right now, I would be getting one of theirs..still might, I have another wildcat I'm looking at.  

I disagree to a point.  At $700 or $800 it's not name recognition that you're paying for.  A $3,000 KAC on the other hand would be paying for a name.  I feel like there's a line, or maybe a window is a better analogy, where an AR under the line is just made up of cheap parts, and one above is simply the name and bling.  Inside that window you get guns priced fairly in relation to the quality of their components.   

[Garufa]

A $400 rifle does the exact same thing as one that costs far more...it puts a bullet where you want it to go.

[Omega]

36 minutes ago, ARO Matt said:

I disagree to a point.  At $700 or $800 it's not name recognition that you're paying for.  A $3,000 KAC on the other hand would be paying for a name.  I feel like there's a line, or maybe a window is a better analogy, where an AR under the line is just made up of cheap parts, and one above is simply the name and bling.  Inside that window you get guns priced fairly in relation to the quality of their components.   

With some items that may be the case, maybe even some weapons, but with ARs, IMO mind you, the $ is mostly in hanguards, stocks and maybe triggers.  PSA ARs are rather decent, since you're in Clarksville,  if interested, I can show you my PSA pistol to get hands on with it.  With their "blems", the best deals, as of yet I have been unable to find the blem.  Their furniture isn't bad, magpul, m-lok, and keymod, though unsure of HG mfg., but feel decent enough.

[Chucktshoes]

49 minutes ago, ARO Matt said:

I disagree to a point.  At $700 or $800 it's not name recognition that you're paying for.  A $3,000 KAC on the other hand would be paying for a name.  I feel like there's a line, or maybe a window is a better analogy, where an AR under the line is just made up of cheap parts, and one above is simply the name and bling.  Inside that window you get guns priced fairly in relation to the quality of their components.   

What you seem to be missing is the pressure of a completely cratered market on manufacturers and sellers. I consider PSA to be a known quantity as I am sure many others her do as well. There are many makes at that $700 price point that are not or are of a lesser quality than the PSA offering.  There are many reasons for that gap between 400 and 700 that can be explained by reasons other than quality. It's wise to know who you are buying from. 

[mikegideon]

4 hours ago, ARO Matt said:

I'm not what you'd call an AR snob, but when you start pushing them into that $399, low end range, I'll pass.  Generally you get what you pay for, and I'd rather pay $700 for a beater that you can actually beat and not break.

My truck gun is a PTAC rifle kit. I paid a little more than this. In terms of reliability, I would trust it as much as any of my other AR's, all worth a lot more. It's an AR. If it breaks, it's cheap and easy to fix.

[musicman]

I'll add my hat to the ring of folks saying the $400 PSA rifle is just as good in quality as a Ruger AR556 or S&W Sport II for $600+.  

The cheap ARs that I feel are lesser quality are the DPMS jobs with super cheap hardware and nekkid sides (no dust cover or forward assist)... and those are still around $500+!  Mossberg, bless their hearts, keeps trying with some AR designs... the last one I held had a slim aluminum free float handguard which was cool... until I picked it up... the rail was STOOPID thick and added a TON of weight to the front of the gun.  Just weird, and pointessly so. For dang near $800. Pass.

Like others have said, If I didn't already have a bunch of 'em, I wouldn't hesitate to but that kit.  For the price of a Saint (same gun, different handguard and buttstock, imho) a feller could have a PSA rifle for his car AND truck!

Edited January 28, 2017 by musicman

[btq96r]

People get too caught up in the brand name at times, though I do agree that if you buy from what I consider the holy trinity (Colt, BCM, DD) you won't really have a good reason to regret anything.  I do think we're gonna see some market fluctuation on all this for a bit, so that factors in as well. 

As to the brand in question...to me, some PSA stuff is a deal, and some of their deals are overrated. 

For example...

This bolt carrier group is a good deal, and if I needed an extra BCG, I'd feel confident getting it if needs be.

This bolt carrier group would never be used in my rifles, and I'd give my opinion against it to anyone who asks.

Reason being...the difference in quality as I insist on it.  The layperson sees the price difference.  I see the bolt steel is 9310 on the cheaper one, not Carpenter 158 as the slightly more expensive one has.  I see the better one (to me) has HPI and MPI listed, while the cheaper one does not.  Usually that kind of omission means it didn't happen.

To me, an AR needs to be looked at as a serious weapon and judged as such  Cheap bolt actions, and .22LR rifles are range toys in my mind, but I get that some people buy an AR for range use as a primary function.  Saying a PSA rifle is good to go as a blanket statement is a bit of a stretch considering the variety of parts they use in their assemblies for complete uppers and LPK's.  PSA does have good quality at a some friendly prices if you know what to look for.  I prefer bring a snob on what counts.  It's served me well.

That's just my $0.02 (rates subject to inflation due to the impending trade wars President Trump has on tap).

Edited January 28, 2017 by btq96r

[Murgatroy]

I built a $450 AR with a PTAC upper on an Anderson lower. The only issue it has is with steel case. Feed it quality brass ammo and it does as well as my *gasp* PSA premium I have about $800 in. One is a beater gun to see how cheap I could go, the other is quality the way I wanted. Both are good. I have built half a dozen ARs, with 99% of the parts PSA branded/supplied. I don't see a point to pay anymore for the same thing. PSA has my stamp of approval. And lots of my money.

[runco]

After reading through these posts you all have convinced me that I should just apply the same logic and go ahead and buy that 2017 Chevrolet Spark at $13K vs. that Toyota Avalon that I was looking for at $42K.  I was wanting a daily driver that I could drive for the next 15 years, and put 300K miles on it, and drive it to Cali if I wanted to with no fear.  Heck if that GM car breaks down its cheap enough to replace the parts.  Parts are parts.  Its just 4 tires and molded sheet metal isn't it with a motor inside?  Thanks guys, you just saved me some dough. 

[musicman]

That analogy would work if the vehicles you mentioned used identical drivetrains, chassis, sheetmetal, interior appointments, suspensions, brakes, etc. 

Do they?

Edited January 28, 2017 by musicman

[Johnny Rotten]

You get what you pay for, I just built a AR15 pistol in the show-tell section for $525 not including the junk I had, I bought a complete PSA upper, I'll admit fit and finish is great but just like btq96r said about the BCG, my upper has the cheaper one and that's one of the reasons that upper will never see my pew, pew, pew lower, the quality of my factory colt and bcm uppers are far more superior...

 

[trevorst]

S&W Sport II's are getting cheap also I picked up two this week one in Elizabethton for $529 and one in Kingsport for $499.  I have custom AR's that I have built for much much more money.  The cheapo smiths though have stood the test of time for me for reliability and reasonable accuracy, if the price keeps dropping I will probably keep buying more.... That said I did buy a PSA lower and a Troy upper from primary arms for $429 (its $449 now) the M-Lok and sights are a big chunk of that $429 heck of a deal (it comes with a BCG but will get one of the premium PSA's that I have lying around).

[trevorst]

I own a DD M4V4, have owned multiple colt's and currently still own a complete BCM rifle and a Noveske upper, the cheap smiths will shoot with any of them.  I think the fit and finish of the DD is superior but I wouldnt say the same for the colts I have owned or the BCM.  The Noveske is an amazing upper shoots lights out and very accurate, but I could buy almost three smiths at their current cost for what I paid for it.

The smith is easily as reliable as any of these rifles and in some cases more accurate (i'm looking at you Colt).

[runco]

2 hours ago, musicman said:

That analogy would work if the vehicles you mentioned used identical drivetrains, chassis, sheetmetal, interior appointments, suspensions, brakes, etc. 

Do they?

I don't know, parts are parts, aren't they?  When I mash the throttle it goes, that is all that matters isn't it?  Both use gasoline, and both will get me from point A to point B.  We are just talking about formed metal aren't we?

 

Or are you really saying that there are engineering specification differences with the parts, not to be confused with quality.  Quality is making something to the optimum designated engineering specification.  Additionally, are you saying it matters where parts are made and made by whom? 

[MacGyver]

I'll look at this from another perspective, and simply say from both an engineering and manufacturing perspective - not to mention market demand, We should probably have multiple sub $400 ARs at this point. There's no market reason holding them back  

There is plenty of room in the market for higher end, higher priced boutique stuff. But, there is no reason a basic AR with mil-spec components and a decent barrel need cost more.   

[runco]

I agree with MacGyver, however the market is what the market is.  I do suspect during this tax time, we will see some crazy low prices since everyone is over-stocked and the market is saturated.  Supply and demand principals will mostly certainly be in wide action. 

[Murgatroy]

5 hours ago, runco said:

After reading through these posts you all have convinced me that I should just apply the same logic and go ahead and buy that 2017 Chevrolet Spark at $13K vs. that Toyota Avalon that I was looking for at $42K.  I was wanting a daily driver that I could drive for the next 15 years, and put 300K miles on it, and drive it to Cali if I wanted to with no fear.  Heck if that GM car breaks down its cheap enough to replace the parts.  Parts are parts.  Its just 4 tires and molded sheet metal isn't it with a motor inside?  Thanks guys, you just saved me some dough. 

I used that exact same logic to buy my wife a Fiesta. 

[Omega]

I think an auto analogy is more like Lexus vs Toyota.  I own a mix of AR brands, and honestly see no difference.  Of course, I don't run mine hard and don't need it for combat though I would trust all of them to do so.  

PSA, and others,  source their parts from other manufacturers they are just stamped PSA.  So you may have parts by BCM, Aero Precision, Olympic Arms, FN etc.  I have a couple of their uppers and lowers, seperate triggers, nitride and nickle boron BCGs, parts kits etc, and as of yet haven't had an issue with anything.  So IF, some of these parts use lower quality material, it hasn't failed yet.  Another thing is, there haven't been too many reports of PSA having bad builds, some yes, but so have other mfgs, but not enough to make me worry.

[musicman]

4 hours ago, runco said:

I don't know, parts are parts, aren't they?  When I mash the throttle it goes, that is all that matters isn't it?  Both use gasoline, and both will get me from point A to point B.  We are just talking about formed metal aren't we?

 

Or are you really saying that there are engineering specification differences with the parts, not to be confused with quality.  Quality is making something to the optimum designated engineering specification.  Additionally, are you saying it matters where parts are made and made by whom? 

So are we also throwing Ruger 10/22s and Browning BARs into the rifle discussion?  I feel the counterpoint I was making was pretty clear.

You can pay anywhere from $400 to $1k for your basic M4gery.  You pick whatever makes you happy, and that makes the world go round. :-)