TN Lost Reciprocity With Washington State

[NextExit]

13 hours ago, chances R said:

Some states are simply not strong carry states, especially where reciprocity is concerned.  VA may be one that simply looks for an excuse to drop a state.  We have certainly opened ourselves up to scrutiny and loss of stature.  Anyone know of any move afoot for a 'fix' ?

Yup.... national reciprocity.  

[DaveTN]

There isn’t National Federal Reciprocity on driver’s license. And if the Feds did it (Carry Permits); it wouldn’t be without a lot more information and requirements than we have now.

I wonder how many people out there don’t know their driver’s license won’t be accepted to fly or enter Federal facilities next year.

https://www.dhs.gov/real-id-and-you-rumor-control

Nope… I’m okay with dealing with the individual states.

Edited January 14, 2017 by DaveTN

[Omega]

44 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

There isn’t National Federal Reciprocity on driver’s license. And if the Feds did it (Carry Permits); it wouldn’t be without a lot more information and requirements than we have now.

I wonder how many people out there don’t know their driver’s license won’t be accepted to fly or enter Federal facilities next year.

https://www.dhs.gov/real-id-and-you-rumor-control

Nope… I’m okay with dealing with the individual states.

Well, sort of.  Driver's licenses do have National Reciprocity,  for driving, and State Id, in all 50 states.  It's only Federal Facilities and Flying, do to TSA that this will affect.  I would be comfortable falling under the States Reciprocity CCW enforcement rules like they do Drivers Licences, just because TN allows 18yo and over doesn't mean a reciprocity state needs to.  Just like now, a sign has Force of Law here even for CCW permit holders from  other states. 

[Oh Shoot]

2 hours ago, Omega said:

Well, sort of.  Driver's licenses do have National Reciprocity,  for driving, ....

To my knowledge, though, that was never by federal law, only each state's decision? Which may be his point?

- OS

[Omega]

8 minutes ago, Oh Shoot said:

To my knowledge, though, that was never by federal law, only each state's decision? Which may be his point?

- OS

I realize that, just commenting on the acceptance part.  Federal properties don't accept state CCW permits.

[ma6907]

To be clear, this question is out of sheer laziness by me as I know I can look it up, but which state has the easiest to obtain non resident permit that will essentially fill in these gaps?  Anyone got a quick link or simple answer?

[300winmag]

It will depend on where you need to travel to as far as what non resident license you may want to pick up.  You can get a non resident Florida license with hunter's education card.  I don't think that Florida gives you anymore states than Tennessee resident license.

We'll just have to see what other states drop TN.  There are other states that issue to all 18 year olds and some that issue to 18-20 military.  I know Alabama issues to all 18 year olds, Texas to 18-20 military, and Mississippi to 18-20 military.

I'm going to guess that whatever states honor a Texas resident license will end up honoring TN.  In fact if you look at handgunlaw.us you will see that the Texas license is presently honored by the same states that are now honoring the TN license.  Texas requires fingerprinting, class, and live fire qualification just like TN requires.  Not sure if they require a class and live fire on renewal anymore.  If we drop live fire and class, we'd probably have about the same states that honor AL because they don't go through a class or range qual to get a license.  Not sure if AL does fingerprinting now.

On handgunlaw.us click on MN and WA and you can see what states they honor.  Some of those states have non resident licenses.  You can also get a non resident license from MN and Washington.  If you travel to either of those places it might be worth it to you to check on.  Worst case you can keep a handgun in your hotel room in most places in the US, including California, without a license. 

Edited January 15, 2017 by 300winmag

[NextExit]

Aint it something?  Even with the 2A in our constitution, you can't get a non-resident permit for CA, NY, NJ, etc. but you can get a non-resident permit (PAL) for Canada which doesn't even have a 2A.  Heck, I could even buy or sell a gun up there.   So much for "shall not be infringed."  For anyone that has the time (or gets really bored) look at NJ gun law... I had a headache after the 3rd paragraph  No way you'll ever get a non-resident permit there.

[ohell]

On 1/7/2017 at 11:33 AM, 300winmag said:

You can look on handgunlaw.us and see that we just lost reciprocity with Washington State due to the whole 18-20 year old military now able to get handgun carry permits.  I know we also just lost reciprocity with Minnesota. 

So they don't support or trust those that signed up to defend our freedom. This year Seattle and satellite hippies will turn Washington State into another republic of kalifornia.     

We shouldnt honor theirs because half of them are stoned. 

[Defender]

On 1/8/2017 at 0:14 AM, JohnC said:

I'm waiting to be covered under LEOSA (§ 926B) after I get vested under TCA 39-17-1350 and I won't have to worry about this silly mess anymore. 

http://law.justia.com/codes/tennessee/2010/title-39/chapter-17/part-13/39-17-1350

https://www.nraila.org/articles/20140511/hr-218-law-enforcement-officers-safety-act

 

I'm covered under LEOSA  (§ 926C) and while it does apply to all 50 states, there are a few instances where a HCP holder can carry where a LEOSA may not.  " While LEOSA is a federal law allowing you to carry in all states, it does not preempt all state laws. Under LEOSA you are “prohibited from possessing or attempting to possess a firearm in a federal facility, which is broadly defined in the statute to include ‘a building or part thereof owned or leased by the federal government, where federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.’”¹ You also cannot carry (if prohibited by state or local laws) on state or local government property, installations, buildings and park lands. However, if you have a state carrying a concealed firearm (CCF) permit (or are on official duty), you can carry in federal parks and through GFSZs within that state. It all depends on whether you are carrying under the federal LEOSA statute or state CCF permit.²

But still, for the purposes of this thread, if one is eligible for both, then that is the way to go if you travel.

[300winmag]

Washington and Minnesota both require people to be 21 to get a license in their states and also that the states they honor only issue to 21 and up.  This wasn't something that their AG's did on their own.  The AG's of MN and WA were forced to drop us because TN suddenly is issuing to 18 year olds.  The only change that will happen to that will be if their legislatures change their reciprocity law to something similar to TN.  TN honors all states' licenses, regardless of those states honoring or not honoring our license.

You can easily get a Washington license as a non resident by just paying a fee to run a background check.  No range, no class.  Maybe fingerprinting? You just have to apply in person.  If you traveled there much it would be worth it to get one because it is so easy to get.  You can also open carry in Washington without a license but have to keep a handgun unloaded when in a vehicle. 

[DWARREN123]

I hate this but we need to do it for all the folks who have given more than most. Some one always has to lead in laws like this and maybe others will follow.

[mikegideon]

4 minutes ago, DWARREN123 said:

I hate this but we need to do it for all the folks who have given more than most. Some one always has to lead in laws like this and maybe others will follow.

Hard to argue with this, even if it does give the anti's a shot at setting us back.

[DaveTN]

The state of Washington doesn’t have any training requirements for a carry permit, yet they pulled our reciprocity because we allow service members to have a permit? I’m going to have to have a talk with Bill O’Reilly about this. This needs to make National news.

[mikegideon]

51 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

The state of Washington doesn’t have any training requirements for a carry permit, yet they pulled our reciprocity because we allow service members to have a permit? I’m going to have to have a talk with Bill O’Reilly about this. This needs to make National news.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Libtard

[JohnC]

20 hours ago, JAlexanderMSgt said:

I'm covered under LEOSA  (§ 926C) and while it does apply to all 50 states, there are a few instances where a HCP holder can carry where a LEOSA may not.  " While LEOSA is a federal law allowing you to carry in all states, it does not preempt all state laws. Under LEOSA you are “prohibited from possessing or attempting to possess a firearm in a federal facility, which is broadly defined in the statute to include ‘a building or part thereof owned or leased by the federal government, where federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.’”¹ You also cannot carry (if prohibited by state or local laws) on state or local government property, installations, buildings and park lands. However, if you have a state carrying a concealed firearm (CCF) permit (or are on official duty), you can carry in federal parks and through GFSZs within that state. It all depends on whether you are carrying under the federal LEOSA statute or state CCF permit.²

But still, for the purposes of this thread, if one is eligible for both, then that is the way to go if you travel.

I visit states that do not have reciprocity with TN, like CA, so LEOSA will allow me to carry places my TN HCP won't.

I already knew about the places we still can't carry, like Federal buildings, court rooms, etc.  

[Oh Shoot]

According to TFA, 6 states are not honoring TN HCP for 18-20 year old, too.

They don't mention MN for some reason:

"•    Colorado will not honor permits issued to 18-20 year olds or non-resident permits.
•    Delaware, as of September 23, 2017, they will no longer recognize non-resident Tennessee permits.
•    Florida will not honor permits issued to 18-20 year olds or non-resident Tennessee permit holders
•    Nebraska will not honor 18-20 year old permits.
•    North Dakota will not honor permits issued to 18-20 year olds
•    Washington will no longer honor Tennessee permits.
•    West Virginia will not honor permits issued to 18-20 year olds or non-resident permits.
•    Wisconsin will not honor 18-20 year old permits."

- OS

[macville]

How long as Delaware honored our permit? Of course, getting into DE is tricky because I am not sure I really trust the federal safe passage law.

Also, how long have we had non resident TN permits?

Edited January 20, 2017 by macville

[DaveTN]

8 minutes ago, macville said:

Also, how long have we had non resident TN permits?

We don't.

[Oh Shoot]

21 minutes ago, macville said:

How long as Delaware honored our permit? .

Dunno, at least since I got my permit about 10 years ago

 

21 minutes ago, macville said:

 

Also, how long have we had non resident TN permits?

 

12 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

We don't.

Well, we don't have a "non resident permit" per se, but if work experience qualifies, certain non-residents can get a standard TN HCP.

- OS

Edited January 20, 2017 by Oh Shoot

[DaveTN]

2 minutes ago, Oh Shoot said:

Well, we don't have a "non resident" permit, but if work experience qualifies, a non-resident can get one.

- OS

Okay, but I don’t see anything on the requirements page saying that. It does say…

Applicants are required to be a resident of the State of Tennessee;

[Oh Shoot]

5 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

Okay, but I don’t see anything on the requirements page saying that. It does say…

Applicants are required to be a resident of the State of Tennessee;

You always believe what a guv org prints is true? Option is so narrow, they probably don't care to mention it:

From 39-17-1351:

"   (r)     (C)  (i) If a person who is a resident of and handgun permit holder in another state is employed in this state on a regular basis and desires to carry a handgun in this state, the person shall have six (6) months from the last day of the sixth month of regular employment in this state to obtain a Tennessee handgun carry permit. The permit may be issued based on the person having a permit from another state provided the other state has substantially similar permit eligibility requirements as this state. However, if during the six-month period the person applies for a handgun permit in this state and the application is denied, the person shall not be allowed to carry a handgun in this state based upon the other state's permit.

         (ii) This subdivision (r)(3)(C) shall not apply if the state of residence of the person employed in Tennessee has entered into a handgun permit reciprocity agreement with this state pursuant to this subsection (r).

         (iii) As used in this subdivision (r)(3)(C), "employed in this state on a regular basis" means a person has been gainfully employed in this state for at least thirty (30) hours a week for six (6) consecutive months not counting any absence from employment caused by the employee's use of sick leave, annual leave, administrative leave or compensatory time."

- OS

 

Edited January 21, 2017 by Oh Shoot

[FortKnox]

Here's an article from Truth About Guns about it.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/01/robert-farago/eight-states-eliminate-partially-reject-tn-handgun-permits-reciprocity/

[300winmag]

Considering what it costs here to get a permit with all the training class fees, we should be getting more value for our permit than what we presently get.

[chances R]

2 hours ago, 300winmag said:

Considering what it costs here to get a permit with all the training class fees, we should be getting more value for our permit than what we presently get.

For $50 8 hours of entertainment ain't bad.