SSI beneficiaries count as mental defectives?

[johncantiusgarand]

Anyone know if there is any truth to this?  And if so, how do you feel about it?  According to PJ Media, Obama has directed that SSI recipients will be classified as mental defectives and prevented from owning firearms.

https://pjmedia.com/trending/2016/12/28/obama-admin-yanks-2a-rights-from-ssi-recipients/

[Garufa]

Obama has not ordered all SSI recipients be deemed mental defectives.

What is being done is the SSA will now begin reporting all recipients of disability and SSI payments who are deemed to has some mental disorder and whose payments are received by someone on their behalf to NICS per a law passed on 2007.  The disorders are listed in section 12 of the SSA "listing of impairments".

Edited December 28, 2016 by Garufa

[Cigarlvr313]

I think it would be interesting to know how many gun related crimes are committed by SSI recipients. Somehow I'm just not feeling overly threatened by that crowd. JMHO

[bigun]

10 hours ago, Cigarlvr313 said:

I think it would be interesting to know how many gun related crimes are committed by SSI recipients. Somehow I'm just not feeling overly threatened by that crowd. JMHO

And you won't be if you don't mess with us.

[Ugly]

Besides the obvious, this move and the same one with the VA seems to have one other objective. To make more criminals. 

This makes sense because the actual mental defectives (the ones in charge) don't believe terrorists, some murderers, dealers etc are criminals. 

This is win win for them. After all there are another 533 million acres of federal land and bodies of water to build more prisons on. 

[Wingshooter]

21 hours ago, Garufa said:

Obama has not ordered all SSI recipients be deemed mental defectives.

What is being done is the SSA will now begin reporting all recipients of disability and SSI payments who are deemed to has some mental disorder and whose payments are received by someone on their behalf to NICS per a law passed on 2007.  The disorders are listed in section 12 of the SSA "listing of impairments".

So someone that is receiving benefits based on a physical disability and nothing under that section 12 should be unaffected by this? 

This does not pertain to me, but I do know someone with a physical disability that is concerned about it.

[East_TN_Patriot]

And this is exactly what I knew would happen as soon as conservative commentators and the NRA got on their kick avoid demonizing the "mentally ill" following various high profile shootings.  Once you start down that road, it can only lead to one place. 

[Oh Shoot]

NRA writeup, just out today. Click in the various links within for full details of just who and for what is included on the prohibited list:

https://www.nraila.org/articles/20161223/grandma-got-run-over-by-obama-ssa-finalizes-new-gun-prohibition-rule

- OS

[quickbiscuit]

30 minutes ago, East_TN_Patriot said:

And this is exactly what I knew would happen as soon as conservative commentators and the NRA got on their kick avoid demonizing the "mentally ill" following various high profile shootings.  Once you start down that road, it can only lead to one place. 

Agreed.  I never liked that they started throwing all mass murderers into the "mentally ill" category.  For the reasons you state and because I never  understood why the NRA felt the need to give these people an excuse.  Some people are just evil and full of hate.  I know several people with mental illnesses, but they are not cold blooded killers.

More on point, this move will affect social security recipients who have a "representative payee."  In my experience, those who need a representative payee have a mental disability and do not have the capacity to manage their own affairs.  I act as a representative payee for a mentally handicapped relative, and she doesn't even understand what a gun really is.  I think this is generally the case for these individuals.  Not that I agree with anything pushed by Obama, but I don't see this as becoming an issue for someone who needs to have access to a gun.

[Oh Shoot]

3 minutes ago, quickbiscuit said:

...  Not that I agree with anything pushed by Obama, but I don't see this as becoming an issue for someone who needs to have access to a gun.

I agree. The criteria is quite limited, and would seem only to affect those who I probably wouldn't want to be around if they had a gun period, much less provide them with one.

The alarm is of course just due the general mistrust for abuse many most have regarding the fed's potential for abuse -- and the fact that so much is determined by a "rule" rather than enacted law.

- OS

 

[Dolomite_supafly]

The problem with ANY legislation that limits ANYTHING by use of criteria being met is the criteria will no doubt change once it is made into law. Obamacare is a prime example. There are a lot more pages now than when it was passed and all those additions were added without another vote. Do you think all those extra pages gave us more or less freedom?

Say a law gets passed saying that those suffering from A, B or C will be the only ones limited. Everyone else rejoices at the passage of that law thinking it only affects those suffering from A, B or C. Then, over time, a few more conditions are added to the criteria and before you know it the criteria has changed so much that it affects a lot more people than when it was originally passed into law. But after a while the criteria for determining who is mentally defective can, and does, change over time. If you think legislation aimed at those with mental conditions will never affect you think about this. I have seen interviews and read articles by people responsible for establishing what the criteria will be for determining whether someone is "mentally defective" or not. Those doctors have overwhelmingly said that the urge to own a dangerous item, such as a gun, is a mental condition. They have even went on to say that the urge to own a dangerous gun is reason enough to keep them from owning one. So even though the mentally defective are the only ones affected right now I do not believe for a second that it will stop there.

You can be adjudicated as mentally defective because of the medication you take, nothing else, and there is a push to do it on a federal level. And do you think that list of medications will remain the same? Never in a million years will that list of medications remain the same. They will alter that list of medications so they can go after certain groups. Adderall is often prescribed to service members suffering from PTSD and that is one of the medications currently being used to limit gun ownership in some states.

Here is a list of medication used to take guns away from those in New York. Imagine if this list were to be used to limit on a national level. I have personally be prescribed Ambien before to help me sleep, took it once and I was found out laying in my yard a sleep so I never took it again. I have been prescribed Valium because I am very allergic to IVP dye and Valium keeps me from dying when the doctors MUST use IVP dye.

• A
• Abilify - antipsychotic used to treat schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, and agitation
• Adderall - stimulant used to treat Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder
• Ambien - used as a sleep aid, cause drousiness
• Antabuse - used to treat alcohol addiction
• Aricept - used to slow the progression of dementia
• Anafranil - tricyclic antidepressant
• Asenapine - antipsychotic used to treat schizophrenia and bipolar disorder
• Ativan - benzodiazepine, used to relieve anxiety^[1]
  
• B
  Benperidol - an antipsychotic
• BuSpar - an anti -anxiety medication
• Benzodiazepines - a class of sedatives
• Benzydamine - an anti-inflammatory drug
  C
• Celexa - an antidepressant of the SSRI class (Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor)
• Clozaril - an atypical antipsychotic (Clozapine)
• Concerta - used to treat ADD/ADHD
• Cymbalta - an antidepressant of the SSNRI (Selective Serotonin and Norepinephrine Reuptake Inhibitor) class, similar to Effexor (venlafaxine)
  D
  Depakote - an atiepileptic and mood stabilizer used to treat bipolar disorder, neuropathic pain and others. Sometimes called an antimanic medication
• Dextromethorphan - an antitussive drug
  E
  Effexor - an antidepressant of the SSNRI (or SNRI) class
• Elavil - a tricyclic antidepressant (TCA), less commonly used these days
• Eskalith - a salt of Lithium, which is a mood stabilizer used to prevent bipolar disorder.
  F
• Fluoxetine - (Prozac) is used to treat major depressive disorder, bulimia nervosa (an eating disorder) obsessive-compulsive disorder, panic disorder, and premenstrual dysphoric disorder (PMDD).
  
  G
• Gabitril - a mood stabilizer
• Geodon - an "atypical" antipsychotic
  H
• P
• Paxil - an SSRI antidepressant, used frequently to treat depression and anxiety disorders
• Phenelzine - (Nardil)-MAOIs for depression
• Pristiq - an SNRI antidepressant
• Prolixin - an antipsychotic
• Prozac - an SSRI antidepressant
• Phenobarbital- a barbiturate, sedative and hypnotic properties

• Q
  
  R
• Remeron - an antidepressant which is often used as a sleep aid
• Reminyl - used to slow the progression of Alzheimer's Dementia
• Restoril - a sleep aid of the benzodiazepine class
• ReVia - alternatively known as Naltrexone
• Risperdal - an "atypical" antipsychotic
• Ritalin - a stimulant used to treat ADHD/ADD
• 
  S
• Saphris - an atypical antipsychotic
• Serax - anti -anxiety medication of the benzodiazepine class, often used to help during detoxification from alcohol or other drugs of abuse
• Sertraline - an SSRI class anti-depressant (brand name Zoloft)
• Seroquel - an "atypical" antipsychotic, sometimes is used as a sleep aid when given in low doses
• Serzone- an "atypical" antidepressant
• Stelazine - an older antipsychotic, today rarely used
• Strattera - a non-stimulant medication used to treat ADD/ADHD
• Sycrest - an atypical antipsychotic
• 
  T
• Thioxetine
• Thorazine - an older antipsychotic, today rarely used because of the high occurrence of serious side effects
• Topamax - a mood stabilizer, also used for migraine headaches
• Trazodone - atypical antidepressant, most typically used now as a sleep aid
• Trileptal - a mood stabilizer used to treat bipolar disorder
• 
  U
• V
• Valium - anti-anxiety medication of the benzodiazepine class
• Vistaril - an antihistamine for the treatment of itches and irritations, an antiemetic, as a weak analgesic, an opioid potentiator, and as an anxiolytic.
• Vyvanse - a stimulant used to treat Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder
• 
  W
• Wellbutrin - an antidepressant of the norepinephrine-dopamine reuptake inhibitor (NDRI) class, structurally identical to Zyban, a smoking cessation aid
• 
  X
• Xanax - an antianxiety medication of the benzodiazepine class
• 
  Y
  
  Z
• Zoloft - an antidepressant of the SSRI class Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor
• Zyprexa - an "atypical" antipsychotic medication used in the treatment of schizophrenia, schizoaffective disorder, bipolar disorder, and various types of dementia and /sometimes OCD(obsessive compulsive disorder)
• Zaleplon - a non-benzodiazepine hypnotic
• Zolpidem - a non-benzodiazepine hypnotic
• Zopiclone - a non-benzodiazepine hypnotic

[johncantiusgarand]

Dolomite, what you've articulated was what initially raised my eyebrows a bit.  When I returned from my first National Guard deployment to Iraq, our first few drill weekends consisted of nothing but presentations from employees of our local VA.  Some were about generic benefits, but many--if not most--seemed to be urging us to take advantage of the psychological services available.  I remember one gentleman who was particularly passionate about it.  He was standing in front of the room saying stuff like, "Everyone of you has PTSD, and it takes a brave person to admit that and get the help he needs!"   

Now, I knew that neither I nor most of my fellows had PTSD.  There were a few who'd had rougher times than the rest of us, and some of the younger ones seemed more fragile and prone to that sort of thing, but the vast majority of us in that unit hadn't experienced anything traumatic.  Deployments suck, being in a combat zone sucks, and going on combat patrols suck.  But most of us hadn't shot at anyone, been shot at by anyone, or had any really close calls.  There was some cumulative effect, I suppose, of repeatedly being exposed to danger going outside the wire as frequently as we did, but this was nothing like previous generations had endured during protracted battles and bloody wars.  So I remember being mildly amused by this VA representative's impassioned pleas for us to come down to the VA and talk to their counselors.  

I was amused until one young member among us, who had already visited the VA right after he got home, started agreeing loudly with everything this guy was saying.  He hadn't experienced anything over there that I would have considered traumatic, but there he was, giving us his testimony about how much the VA had helped him and how he discovered--through his counselors--that he had PTSD, and was going to be getting a disability check.  Some of the other guys found this disability check idea appealing, and I told them after the presentation, "Mark my words.  You can parlay your "I was in a combat zone" into a bogus PTSD check today, and you'll lose your gun rights as a "mental defective" tomorrow!"  Many of them didn't believe me then, but they've since noted that, whenever there is a high profile violent crime, if the perpetrator was a veteran who supposedly had PTSD, that will be a big part of the news coverage.   

Neither that young soldier who'd spoken out during the presentation, nor another I knew of who jumped on the disability check bandwagon with him lasted in the unit for very long after that.  Soon, they were showing up to drill useless for anything, because they were doped up on medication.  And the VA wasn't going to give them pills forever, so they eventually became real pill heads that started pissing hot for illegal stuff on random drug tests and had to be put out of the Guard.  I'm sure they're still drawing their VA disability checks though.  I confess that it is guys like these that spring to mind whenever I hear talk of restricting guns for VA mental patients, and a part of me has no problem with that.  

But I do not trust the Federal government to always be so reasonable in how it interprets this new category.