New Chronograph

[gregintenn]

I fired a cylinder of rounds across my Christmas present yesterday. It detected all six shots, and speeds were in line with reloading manual data, but there was quite a discrepancy between the fastest and slowest round.

This was a 125 grain Hornady xtp loaded atop 20 grains of WW296, 357 mag, fired from a Herter's Powermag single action revolver with a 6.5" barrel.

The slowest was 1426 fps, and the fastest was 1509.

I expected them to be closer together, but this was my very first experience with a chronograph.

My father has built a smokeless muzzleloader. That should be interesting to fire over the chrono for sure.

This is going to be interesting I think, if I don't shoot through it.

Edited December 27, 2016 by gregintenn

[musicman]

Very cool!  I shot over a chronograph for the very first time a few weeks ago as well.  I was pleasantly surprised that most loads were right about where they should have been according to my source data.

As for 110/296, I've read that it can be a bit erratic at below max charges.  I don't have my manuals at work, but for a 125gr 357, isn't max like 21.7 or something close?  I wonder if that's part of the reason for the wide spread.  I'm curious to find out, because I load a lot of 357 and 44 with 110/296 as well.  Keep us updated with your latest finds!  :-)

[MacGyver]

1 hour ago, gregintenn said:

I fired a cylinder of rounds across my Christmas present yesterday. It detected all six shots, and speeds were in line with reloading manual data, but there was quite a discrepancy between the fastest and slowest round.

This was a 125 grain Hornady xtp loaded atop 20 grains of WW296, 357 mag, fired from a Herter's Powermag single action revolver with a 6.5" barrel.

The slowest was 1426 fps, and the fastest was 1509.

I expected them to be closer together, but this was my very first experience with a chronograph.

My father has built a smokeless muzzleloader. That should be interesting to fire over the chrono for sure.

This is going to be interesting I think, if I don't shoot through it.

I'm interested in your findings with your dad's smokeless muzzleloader.  I bored and threaded a 45/70 Handi Rifle and put a stainless breach plug in it to go smokeless.  

So far, accuracy is awesome.  Good enough that I'm not too concerned about velocity.  But, the data would be awfully interesting nonetheless.

[gregintenn]

17 minutes ago, MacGyver said:

I'm interested in your findings with your dad's smokeless muzzleloader.  I bored and threaded a 45/70 Handi Rifle and put a stainless breach plug in it to go smokeless.  

So far, accuracy is awesome.  Good enough that I'm not too concerned about velocity.  But, the data would be awfully interesting nonetheless.

He made his own breechplug, and so far, he's having trouble with primers producing enough crud to stop it up after a few rounds.

His is built on a 700 Remington action.

[MacGyver]

That's odd.  Seems like there's good data on building off the 700.  I didn't want to invest that much initially in case I screwed it up.

Do you know what primer/powder combination he's using?  Is he using primed cases like the one Remington was marketing for a while?

I knew a guy who made up a tool to clean his breach plug.  It was basically a small drill bit with a knurled aluminum handle that he could take into the field with him.  

[gregintenn]

2 hours ago, MacGyver said:

That's odd.  Seems like there's good data on building off the 700.  I didn't want to invest that much initially in case I screwed it up.

Do you know what primer/powder combination he's using?  Is he using primed cases like the one Remington was marketing for a while?

I knew a guy who made up a tool to clean his breach plug.  It was basically a small drill bit with a knurled aluminum handle that he could take into the field with him.  

I think he's going to make up a cleaning tool.

I believe he's shooting Winchester magnum primers, and maybe IMR 4895.

Just snapping a primer makes an awful mess without a powder charge or bullet.

I'm betting there's a better choice for a primer.

He isn't using primed cases.

 

He did make a breechplug for his Thompson Contender muzzleloader barrel that takes a primed 25 auto case. That was pretty cool.

[superduty]

I typically get velocities plus or minus 50 fps on my AR loads.  I measure the powder on both the Chargemaster as well as an RCBS 505 beam scale.  Some variation is bound to happen,  and the extent to which you worry about it depends on the kind of shooting you do, and how anal you are about it I guess.

And I did shoot my first chrono....it still amazes me how much it freaked everyone out at the range. Geez people, not like it was their chrono, or like it was ten thousand bucks.

 

[mikegideon]

7 minutes ago, superduty said:

I typically get velocities plus or minus 50 fps on my AR loads.  I measure the powder on both the Chargemaster as well as an RCBS 505 beam scale.  Some variation is bound to happen,  and the extent to which you worry about it depends on the kind of shooting you do, and how anal you are about it I guess.

And I did shoot my first chrono....it still amazes me how much it freaked everyone out at the range. Geez people, not like it was their chrono, or like it was ten thousand bucks.

 

The Chargemaster keeps it pretty tight. I'm currently using the Magnetospeed chrony. I trust it more than my optical one. Seems like the numbers are even a little tighter with it.

[ehull20000]

For reference I shot 18 rounds of 150 grain Winchester Deer Season XP the other day and got ES of 110 and SD of 24 from my Magnetospeed.  I'd say you are doing pretty good, especially if you are happy with the groups.  If not, I've heard of guys tinkering with their loads and getting the SD down in to the single digits.  Hopefully I'll be there someday.  

[Quavodus]

A chronograph is definitely something that I want to get someday. I've been handloading for almost 30 years and have never chronoed a load of mine.

[gregintenn]

1 hour ago, Quavodus said:

A chronograph is definitely something that I want to get someday. I've been handloading for almost 30 years and have never chronoed a load of mine.

https://www.amazon.com/Competition-Electronics-ProChrono-Digital-Chronograph/dp/B0028MTBJ4

Less than $100. It seems to work fine. I'd also pick up a tripod, unless you already have one for a camera, spotting scope, etc.

[mikegideon]

1 hour ago, gregintenn said:

https://www.amazon.com/Competition-Electronics-ProChrono-Digital-Chronograph/dp/B0028MTBJ4

Less than $100. It seems to work fine. I'd also pick up a tripod, unless you already have one for a camera, spotting scope, etc.

I have one of them. Worked well for me in most cases. Lied its butt off with .458 SOCOM. Never could figure out why. Yep, you need a tripod.

[gregintenn]

1 hour ago, mikegideon said:

I have one of them. Worked well for me in most cases. Lied its butt off with .458 SOCOM. Never could figure out why. Yep, you need a tripod.

Muzzle blast?

[MacGyver]

The chronograph probably mistook it for a small import driving by.

[Westwindmike]

Be sure to not set your chrony too close to the muzzle. I think my manual states 15 ft. Any closer and the sun screens get blown off.

[mikegideon]

1 hour ago, gregintenn said:

Muzzle blast?

I tried backing it way up. And, I have a brake on the gun

[Westwindmike]

I had a friend that was handy with a welder, make this for mine. Might not stop a 30-06, but will keep all the pistol rounds from ventilating it.

http://

[mikegideon]

Hasn't even been shot yet

[Alleycat72]

The wife got me this for Christmas. 

Can't wait to put it to the test. On ES, my F-Class guns run from the high single digits to the low teens. My hunting rifles run high teens to low 20s. Never cared enough to really test my supersonic AR stuff. 

[ehull20000]

That Labradar looks cool.

[xtriggerman]

Mechanically, wheel guns are all ways more prone to velocity variance due to the nature of the beast. The most prevalent reason is the barrel cylinder gap. If you have a good set of feeler gauges, measure the gap at each cylinder mouth with the hammer at rest. Even the smallest difference will give you what you have. you should see .005  +/- .001 for a good gap. Once you find the gauge with a slight resistance, hopefully that same resistance will be found on each cylinder mouth. The loser will be your low vels. Cylinder concentricity with the barrel bore is the second item that can effect vels by a tad also aside from being the cause of flyers as most all ready know. One other area that gets overlooked is the forcing cone that makes up for non true to the bore cylinders. You would be surprised to know how many wheel guns have out of center bore cones and are within factory specs.  Just the slightest out of center cone will try to force rifling into only one side of the bullet way before rifling is available on the opposite side of the cone. This to is a pressure consideration. Those 3 things are the foundation of performance center built wheel guns.

[seez52]

I bought an Oehler model 12 about 30+ years ago. I think it was $99 which seemed like a bunch then. Worked great but it was real crazy scientist looking when you used it. It was analog with a knob and meter. You'd turn the knob to various fixed numbered positions and the needle would read either yes or no. Once you got a four digit number you would match it to a reference chart to get the actual velocity. You'd have to do that after each shot. Always reminded me of the kid on A Christmas Story when he was using his Little Orphan Annie decoder ring. It would be cool today, but not very practical. 

I still have it. Used it a couple of years ago and it worked just great. Problem is somebody decided to try and chrono a shotgun and blew one of the screens apart. Replacement screens were more expensive than a new digital unit.