Can a C&R holder enlighten me?

[Guest Schwarzgebrannt]

I want to sell a C&R eligible handgun to a gentleman who holds an 03 FFL in Connecticut.

I have found many notices on major internet dealers that they cannot ship C&R handguns to a 03 FFL, but only to a normal dealer.

Is this the actual law? I'd really like this guy to be able to get it, I just don't want to get either of us in trouble. He's facing $50 transfer fees + sales tax at his regular FFL. (Which is outrageous)

I can't find any information one way or the other except the general idea that the ATF forbids individual to 03 FFL shipments of C&R handguns.

So much conflicting info.

[Guest bkelm18]

The whole purpose of the C&R FFL is so that you can have C&R eligible guns shipped directly to you. Yes, if the buyer has a 03 FFL, you may ship it right to him. I've never seen anything that says you cannot.

Edited to add:

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b1

(B1) To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA?

A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.

To me, the bolded part says that you, an unlicensed person, may transfer ownership of a C&R gun to a licensed collector in any state.

Edited January 3, 2009 by bkelm18

[Guest Schwarzgebrannt]

CT is a pistol permit state.

Every store that sells C&R pistols states that they cannot/will not ship to 03 FFLs in CT.

I just can't find the relevant law, or an exemption that enables people to bypass the pistol permit process if it's shipped directly to them.

[Guest bkelm18]

CT is a pistol permit state.

Every store that sells C&R pistols states that they cannot/will not ship to 03 FFLs in CT.

I just can't find the relevant law, or an exemption that enables people to bypass the pistol permit process if it's shipped directly to them.

Well, that I do not know. For best results, give the ATF a call. They'll give ya an answer.

[Guest Spuds]

You received a copy of "State Laws & Published Ordinances" with your license. Read the section on Connecticut laws. If no laws there prohibit an 03 licensee in CT from receiving a handgun directly in interstate commerce, you're good to go. But you gotta read it to find out.

[Guest Schwarzgebrannt]

I don't have a C&R license although I intend to get one.

[Reservoir Dog]

I just looked through my ATF book on CT state firearms laws and regs, and they are confusing as hell. It does read that anyone who receives a handgun must have a permit. There are exceptions for FFL dealers and manufacturers, but I don't see one for 03 C&R collectors. I could be missing it, though. Here is what you need to look at:

CT General Statutes: Title 29, Chapter 529, Section 29-33

Based on what I have read, I probably would ship it to an 01 FFL in his state for transfer. Just to be on the safe side.

Edited January 4, 2009 by Reservoir Dog

[DaveTN]

State law can be more restrictive than Federal Law.

If this guy holds a C&R and lives in Connecticut and doesn’t know if he can receive a gun from you; I would let him pay the transfer fees.

[Guest bkelm18]

Dave brings up a good point. If he's so ignorant of his state's laws that he doesn't know the answer to this, I wouldn't send anything to him. If he wants it then send it to a dealer and let him pay the fees. As a 03FFL in a restrictive state, its his prerogative to know the laws and how they pertain to him.

[Guest Spuds]

I don't have a C&R license although I intend to get one.

Sorry, I should not have ASSuMEd such. Here's a link to the same info:

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/statelaws/25thedition/connecticut.pdf

[Guest gcrookston]

Spuds, in the link you posted above, it states:

(Section 29-33) (

On and after October 1, 1995, no person

may purchase or receive any pistol or revolver

unless such person holds a valid permit to carry

a pistol or revolver issued pursuant to subsection

( of section 29-28, a valid permit to sell at

retail a pistol or revolver issued pursuant to subsection

(a) of section 29-28 or a valid eligibility

certificate for a pistol or revolver issued pursuant

to section 29-36f or is a federal marshal, parole

officer or peace officer

I believe the highlighted portion would exclude C&R from receiving a handgun directly and all transfers would have to go through a retail dealer and the purchaser holding a valid C&R must also have obtained an eligibility certificate to purchase same. A C&R is a collector's license, not a dealer's license. Elsewhere in the statute is excludes antiques. Nowhere does it exclude C&R weapons.

Edited January 4, 2009 by gcrookston

[Guest Spuds]

Spuds, in the link you posted above, it states:

(Section 29-33) (

On and after October 1, 1995, no person

may purchase or receive any pistol or revolver

unless such person holds a valid permit to carry

a pistol or revolver issued pursuant to subsection

( of section 29-28, a valid permit to sell at

retail a pistol or revolver issued pursuant to subsection

(a) of section 29-28 or a valid eligibility

certificate for a pistol or revolver issued pursuant

to section 29-36f or is a federal marshal, parole

officer or peace officer

I believe the highlighted portion would exclude C&R from receiving a handgun directly and all transfers would have to go through a retail dealer and the purchaser holding a valid C&R must also have obtained an eligibility certificate to purchase same. A C&R is a collector's license, not a dealer's license. Elsewhere in the statute is excludes antiques. Nowhere does it exclude C&R weapons.

I would draw the same conclusion based on what you have posted. I didn't bother to read the statutes, only linked them so the OP could do it himself. (After all, it is his carcass on the line. )

Some of the yankee states have unreal restrictions. I sold an antique (pre-1898) Mauser not long ago, a NJ resident was the successful high bidder. In NJ, even antiques must go through an FFL dealer!

[Guest 70below]

Never know when gangs are gonna start running around with cap n ball pistols.

I'm a C&R, though relatively new, and of the same mindset as those who have posted before me. If he doesn't know his State law.....then don't risk your but to get him a gun.

[Guest Schwarzgebrannt]

Thanks for the link, spuds. Good lord. The law there really does stink. Don't apologize for thinking I had an 03- I should have one!

He hasn't been asking me to ship it to him in spite of the law, he's a reservist who just got his 03 and after seeing the rulebook for CT, I'm not surprised that he doesn't have the law memorized. We've both just been trying to figure out what is and isn't legal.

[Guest Provence]

Shipping handguns to C&R holders is complicated by a Federal law that handguns cannot be mailed except to "bona fide dealers". This law seems to exclude C&R holders, since they are not dealers.

I did have one seller mail me a handgun. Another seller said he would have to send it by UPS or FEDEX. This would cost a lot more because the shipper required overnight shipping for handguns.

It looks like the latter seller was correct according to the letter of the law.

[Guest Schwarzgebrannt]

Got off the phone with the BATF's CT field office and the regional office. The BATF was actually very helpful. Nothing in federal regulations prohibits an invidual person (C&R holder or otherwise) from shipping a C&R eligable handgun directly to another C&R holding individual.

Now it's time to talk to the state level people. Hopefully it's as surprisingly easy as the other calls were.

The things I do to make a deal work when it's worth it to me..