10 mm vs .40 S&W

[KKing]

If I understand you right you want a "woods gun"

Get the 10mm. There's nothing .40 can do that 10mm can't, there are things 10mm can do that .40 can't.

You're welcome.




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[DWARREN123]

I have loaded for and shot a Glock 20. If loaded to full potential the 10mm is to the 40 S&W as the 357 mag is to a 38spl.

The 10mm is a very good round for many proposes.

[Jared Hensley]

Are the recoil springs on the Gen 4 Glock 20's designed for full-power loads?  

[DWARREN123]

Yes but not for some of the wilder loads that can be obtained by an experienced hand loader.

[ohell]

All the ballistics data in this thread show bulk manufactured 10mm is weak and a G29 is no better than a G35 with standard ammo. If you don't reload Underwood is the king of 10mm.  If you buy the G21 you can buy 45acp cheaper than 10mm range ammo, add a full chamber barrel to shoot 45 super to be on par with 10mm.  Add barrel and comp to shoot hot 45 Super to 460 Rowland which is low 44mag ballistics. Or barrel swap for 40 super for woods  and still trump 10mm and have 45 acp for normal use.  See old threads on block talk. Nothing wrong with g20, just the 21 is better. 

[Wingshooter]

16 minutes ago, ohell said:

All the ballistics data in this thread show bulk manufactured 10mm is weak and a G29 is no better than a G35 with standard ammo. If you don't reload Underwood is the king of 10mm.  If you buy the G21 you can buy 45acp cheaper than 10mm range ammo, add a full chamber barrel to shoot 45 super to be on par with 10mm.  Add barrel and comp to shoot hot 45 Super to 460 Rowland which is low 44mag ballistics. Or barrel swap for 40 super for woods  and still trump 10mm and have 45 acp for normal use.  See old threads on block talk. Nothing wrong with g20, just the 21 is better. 

Every 460 Rowland I've seen has a comp. Is there a reason for that other than recoil. If not, is the recoil that brutal? That comp sure makes for a huge gun.

[musicman]

I'm not going to rehash all this 10/40 stuff all over again, just gunna share that of the standard factory ammo you can get everywhere Sig's seems to be the best, touting over 600lb ft of energy.  It's no Underwood or handload, but it's better than most.

[Mark A]

My favorite handgun round is the 357 sig. All of the pistols I have in that calibers I also own 40 s&w barrels for. Love the 357, hate the 40. For some reason the recoil impulse from the 40 makes it uncomfortable for me to shoot. But, I have a bunch of 40 loaded up just in case I need it.

A few years back we went to Alaska for our 20th anniversary. Couldn't find a g20 anywhere so I picked up a g29 and some full sized mags. Carried buffalo bore when we were hiking and Underwood for 2 legged animals. That thing is a blast to shoot with full tilt boogie ammo.

I swore I wasn't going to cave to pre-election jitters but that Tuesday night I caved and ordered a g20. Don't have a ton of rounds down it yet but it seems to shoot fine. I think the 29 may be a bit more fun but I haven't shot them back to back yet. I carry a G33 on my ankle most days. Don't know if the 29 is too heavy to carry in an ankle holster but i'm  going to find out. I think a 29 on my ankle and a 20 on my hip sounds pretty good.

I thought long and hard about getting a 41mag instead. Really like that caliber. Finally decided for that trip that the 10mm was the better choice for both hiking and around town.

Plus, everyone knows the 10mm is the boom of doom...

[FJCrusing]

3 hours ago, Jared Hensley said:

Are the recoil springs on the Gen 4 Glock 20's designed for full-power loads?  

Yes although if you want to shoot some high powered loads (220gr), hardcast or lead ammo you may want to consider a KKM barrel for the Glock 20.  I carry a Glock 20 Gen4 for deep woods protection and have been very happy with it.  I carry Underwood 200gr ammo in it.  I've always heard that the 10mm will crush bone as opposed to .40S&W in case you piss off mama bear.  I like the .40S&W and 10mm.  I shoot both and my EDC is a G27.  You won't be disappointed with a G20. 

[Mark A]

10 minutes ago, musicman said:

I'm not going to rehash all this 10/40 stuff all over again, just gunna share that of the standard factory ammo you can get everywhere Sig's seems to be the best, touting over 600lb ft of energy.  It's no Underwood or handload, but it's better than most.

And, at least in my 20 it is extremely accurate. Haven't had a chance to try it in the 29 yet but I expect good things.

 

Can't wait until I get my reloading act back together again. I have some 200 gr XTP's that are just begging to go fast.

[musicman]

40 minutes ago, Mark A said:

And, at least in my 20 it is extremely accurate. Haven't had a chance to try it in the 29 yet but I expect good things.

 

Can't wait until I get my reloading act back together again. I have some 200 gr XTP's that are just begging to go fast.

Right on.  With my Witness Elite Match the only thing that WASN'T shooting cloverleafs was that Armscor stuff in the white and yellow box.  I'm just now getting into loading for it and am getting very close to published velocities with Power Pistol and Longshot.  Still working on finding the top.  :-)

[Climber]

Like others, I have had multiple calibers and ended up getting rid of all my .40's and consolidating to 9mm.  I recently got a 10mm and it is now my favorite caliber by far.  I reload so that helps a bit and the round is accurate and in my opinion, as easy as 45 acp to shoot.  It does not seem as snappy as .40 to me.

I will always have the 9mm  caliber and the G20 will by my woods gun from now on.  I'm also hoping to plug a deer with it soon.  Underwood cast and XTP's in 180 or 200gr seem to get the best reviews from 10mm hunters.

[ohell]

On 12/13/2016 at 8:00 PM, Wingshooter said:

Every 460 Rowland I've seen has a comp. Is there a reason for that other than recoil. If not, is the recoil that brutal? That comp sure makes for a huge gun.

460 a compensator is required IMO, keeps the recoil down to G20 level and plastic block together. 10 round mags, or Rowland mag springs, or longer / weighted slide needed to feed reliability.  I owned a G20 and loaded so hot slide would outrun feeding so comp was required, no difference.  G21 with comp same as length as G41.  45 super level no comp required and covers 10mm ballistics.  

The 40super is barrel swap,  necked round feeding .40" bullet in .45" hole so reliable feeding, same bullet selection from underwood as the 10mm loads but you get +150fps which is a lot from a pistol. You should buy a barrel with chamber support for hot 10mm so same cost.  You lose 2 rounds in standard mag but have kriss mag options for reliable 25 round 45 or 40 super. 

Heck, buy a 10mm conversion barrel for G21. The 21 wins hands down in my eyes.  The only reason I'd own a 20 over 21 is if I was only loading fourty caliber bullets. Back on topic,  buy the G20 if it is your preference.  There is another option so if buying underwood or buffalo bore for woods use and 40 super in a G21 should be considered;  swap barrels back to 45 acp for nightstand and cheaper range use than 10mm. 

[leroy]

If ya want a Glock 20, get one and shoot Underwood Ammo in it for full 10 mm ballistics... If ya want a large, comfortable to shoot pistola for plinkin and reasonable self defense; buy an aftermarked 40 S&W barrel (...mine is a $105 Lone Wolf...)... I guarantee ya will shoot lots more 40 SW in your pistola after the "new novelty" wears off than the 10 MM stuff...

By the way, the 10 MM aint a "rimless 41 mag"... It might be a pretty good "rimless 357 mag"... The 10 MM brings the first reasonable attempt to get "magnum performance" out of a large size autoloader with plenty of capacity... If ya are into capacity, 15 rounds of 10 MM is hard to beat... If ya are into powerful ballistics, ya simply cant beat the big revolvers of any flavor, from 41 Mag up to whatever... What ya sacrifice with them is capacity...

That's the story as i see it...

By the way, lest ye "fan boys and girls" think i'm besmirtchin the greatness of the 10 MM; i aint... I own two of 'em... I keep a 40 SW barrel in one and 10MM in the other... I've also got some real big pistolas in the safe as well and i handload for all of em...

10 MM leroy....

[Jared Hensley]

4 hours ago, leroy said:

If ya want a Glock 20, get one and shoot Underwood Ammo in it for full 10 mm ballistics... If ya want a large, comfortable to shoot pistola for plinkin and reasonable self defense; buy an aftermarked 40 S&W barrel (...mine is a $105 Lone Wolf...)... I guarantee ya will shoot lots more 40 SW in your pistola after the "new novelty" wears off than the 10 MM stuff...

By the way, the 10 MM aint a "rimless 41 mag"... It might be a pretty good "rimless 357 mag"... The 10 MM brings the first reasonable attempt to get "magnum performance" out of a large size autoloader with plenty of capacity... If ya are into capacity, 15 rounds of 10 MM is hard to beat... If ya are into powerful ballistics, ya simply cant beat the big revolvers of any flavor, from 41 Mag up to whatever... What ya sacrifice with them is capacity...

That's the story as i see it...

By the way, lest ye "fan boys and girls" think i'm besmirtchin the greatness of the 10 MM; i aint... I own two of 'em... I keep a 40 SW barrel in one and 10MM in the other... I've also got some real big pistolas in the safe as well and i handload for all of em...

10 MM leroy....

Thanks Leroy.  In your opinion will the stock Glock 20 (Gen 4) recoil spring be sufficient for the Underwood Ammo?  

[KahrMan]

My 20 handles Underwood just fine.

[leroy]

16 hours ago, Jared Hensley said:

Thanks Leroy.  In your opinion will the stock Glock 20 (Gen 4) recoil spring be sufficient for the Underwood Ammo?  

I'd say the stock spring would be ok... If ya are real interested, take a look here... http://www.glocktalk.com/forum/10mm-reloading-forum.67/

There are some pretty knowledgeable and hard core shooters postin here... They like the aftermarket barrels and xtra power springs... Hope this helps a bit...

leroy

[Jared Hensley]

On 12/13/2016 at 9:31 PM, FJCrusing said:

Yes although if you want to shoot some high powered loads (220gr), hardcast or lead ammo you may want to consider a KKM barrel for the Glock 20.  I carry a Glock 20 Gen4 for deep woods protection and have been very happy with it.  I carry Underwood 200gr ammo in it.  I've always heard that the 10mm will crush bone as opposed to .40S&W in case you piss off mama bear.  I like the .40S&W and 10mm.  I shoot both and my EDC is a G27.  You won't be disappointed with a G20. 

Just got a box of Underwood 155 grain XTP.  Will run it in the Glock 20 tomorrow to see how I like it.  

[Jared Hensley]

On 12/12/2016 at 6:08 PM, Jared Hensley said:

Hi Dave.  Thanks for the thoughtful response to my question.  I'm not much of an internet guy so forgive me if my question seems strange for a first post.  But anyway, I have lot's of experience with many types of firearms, both rifles and handguns, but have never owned either a .40 or 10 mm.  I know this might sound naive, but I'm struggling to understand why anyone would prefer the .40 over the 10 mm?  My EDC is a 9mm and I feel that is adequate for personal defense.  When I'm in the woods I carry a .44 or .41 mag revolver, but I'm thinking a high capacity 10mm Glock (model 20?) might be a better option.  I guess my real question is what niche does the .40 fill that the 10 mm won't cover?  -Jared

Bought a Gen4 Glock 20 soon after I made this post!  Now I can say I've never owned a .40 but own a 10mm. 

Edited December 23, 2016 by Jared Hensley

[Wingshooter]

2 hours ago, Jared Hensley said:

Bought a Gen4 Glock 20 soon after I made this post!  Now I can say I've never owned a .40 but own a 10mm. 

Great choice! You can also say you have a full-power 40cal

 

Plus, I've read you can shoot 40s&w just fine from a glock20. I've never tried it, and I'm sure it's not officially recommended but just putting that out there. 

[huntnkat]

Good choice. I was going back and forth between a G29 or 20 and a G23 when I first started carrying a few years ago. Could only get one gun at the time and thought the 23 could do a little of everything. I ended up going to 9mm and a G20 will be the next pistol I buy. 9mm for the streets and 10mm for the woods. 

[1gewehr]

Just to be different.  If you're not really a Glock fan, the EAA Witness or whatever they call it now is a good choice for 10mm.  Buy one gun and there are conversions to .22 and .45 1st reasonable cost.

The Witness has been around a long time and proven to be accurate, reliable, and durable even with strong 10mm loads.  There's a polymer frame for those who like plastic.

[ma6907]

I frequently shoot .40 and 10 mm.  Drawbacks of 10 mm for my preferred platform (Sig DA/SA) are weight and capacity.  A huge drawback of 10mm if you do not reload is cost and availability.  I frequently cannot find ammo in a store, and although I can always order it, there are times when I would rather be in a store and see what I am getting and compare box to box.  More than once I have ordered ammo online and what I got was not what I thought I was getting (my fault, I know).  I do not like to get into ANY caliber wars but for me .40 is a fine platform.  10 mm is obvously better BUT there are times when I cannot carry (or even cannot shoot) my 10 mm.  Ammo not ordered in bulk is $$.  Ammo ordered in bulk cannot be tested first.  Those are (to me) drawbacks.  Strange that I had the same experience as others here--during the shortages, 10mm is all that seemed to be on shelves.  Then when there is plenty of ammo, there is seemingly none of the 10mm?  Buffalo Bore is my favorite "Boutique" ammo so far for my Sig Elite 10 mm but Underwood is gaining rapidly (both thanks to tips on TGO.)  The Sig factory 10 mm shoots well but I am not sure the difference in energy (over the .40) of that round justifies the cost  (I also shoot and carry 9mm, .380, and several others.)  I have not yet tried out the Glock in 10mm but plan on it soon.  Glock is not my favorite (Sig is) but I do own and shoot Glocks and like them fine.  Related but unrelated note--I have never considered myself much of a s&W semi auto guy, but I shot my brother's new M&P 9mm this weekend and I REALLY liked it.  The trigger surprised me,

Edited December 31, 2016 by ma6907

[Dirtshooter]

I have some .40 cal semi auto pistols and carbines. I have a S&W 610 revolver that shoots 10mm and .40 cal. It is similar to .357 that shoots .38's the case on 10mm is longer and holds more powder. It has similar knockdown power of a .41mag. Like others have said .40 cal is cheap compared to 10mm. As with all discussions about caliber, there is always pro's and con's. You can kill most all animals on this planet with a well placed round of .22lr, anything bigger is just overkill I suppose.

[leroy]

All...

Im gonna post this without comment; lest ye believe a fable about the stoutness of the great 10 mm (...and it is great, for an auto pistol...)... This is data from a simple Google search...

Underwood 200G JHP        1250 fps          694 ft-lb energy

Underwood 220 HC            1200 fps         703 ft-lb energy

Buffalo Bore 41mag 230 jhp..... 1450 fps          1074 ft-lb energy

Remington 210 soft pt................1300 fps          788 ft-lb energy... This is the low end...

Underwood 210 JHP....................1560 fps         1135 ft-lb energy.... Pretty good here...

The point of this is to illustrate that a 10 mm (...powerful as it is...) is a light loaded 41 mag... Remember, energy goes up as the square of velocity... All that bein said; the great 10 mm is more than adequate for most any varmint that walks on two or more legs up to a pretty good size... I like 'em... 

nerdy leroy the amateur student of handgun ballistics...