Two juveniles charged for starting Sevier Co. wildfires

[Grand Torino]

People died as a result of their actions. People lost everything. I for one cannot see how these kids should not be punished to the full extent of the law. I've heard that argument time and time again about how they are just kids and extended prison time just makes them hardened criminal. Well too bad. Maybe if they get enough time nobody will need to worry about that. I wonder if these same people that say that would feel the same way if they were burying their five of six year old baby girl because these kids decided it would be cool to play with fire.

[BigEsboy]

The question is " are these two boys punks that would find some reason to spend most of their life in a prison or are they a couple of knuckle heads that were not thinking about the consequences of their actions. 

Either way it was a tragic day for everyone else involved.

[NoBanStan]

Regardless of accident or intentional, I don't think anyone involved will care. Nor should they.

You play with fire....

[leroy]

The truth of the matter is this.... Some decisions are life-altering (...and in some cases life-taking...) actions... I've got zero sympathy for the "...they are just kids thing...." and the "...no amount of punishment is appropriate thing..."... The fact is that these two people have caused the loss of life, stupendous property damage, and misery on a gargantuan scale to folks they don't know and who have done nothing to them... Not many people can say they have accomplished such idiotic, and monstrous mayhem; no matter the age  or occupation (...or lack of one...) in a whole lifetime of screwing things up and doin evil... That puts them in a very elite and despisable class... A class that i simply do not think you can tolerate out in the general population...

These two are miscreants at best and monsters at worst... Those who believe that this is "...kids being kids..." are either intellectually challenged or intellectually dishonest as far as i'm concerned... Actions do have consequences, and this is about the worst action i've seen in a good while... I (...and i suspect others...) have friends and kinfolk, rich and poor, that have lost everything as a result of this monstrous action... This conflagration has touched thousands, if not tens of thousands of people... It is on the same scale as an act of war; no matter the original intention....

America seems to be the only place in the world where we have a pretty large subclass of otherwise intelligent people who dote on our young folks and do them the genuine disservice of lying to them by failing to tell our children that "actions have consequences"... I say that if you believe in "teenage irresponsibility"; you are part of the problem... It also baffles me that there seems to be a "cottage industry" of "experts" who would tell us that "kids will be kids", and seek to explain away and/or minimize this sort of monstrous behavior....

Kids should continually be told that all actions have consequences; from childhood thru adulthood... I don't wanna hear about "kids being kids" and "they didn't mean to do it"... This is not some idiotic video game that you can re-set; nor some goofy "alternate reality" where it don't matter... People have actually died as the result of these actions and property has been destroyed on a god like scale... This one aint gonna go away...

If you want kids to be responsible, you have to continually teach them to act responsible; while being responsible yourself... Sometimes the punishment is not sufficient for the crime; and i suspect that is the case here... None the less, serious punishment needs to be passed out for this; right up to and including trial for capital murder... I say, let justice take it's course and keep the "they were just kids" things out of it...

Thus endeth the rant...

leroy....

[mikegideon]

Leroy,

I'm going to my safe space now. That was harsh.  

You know I'm kidding.

Edited December 9, 2016 by mikegideon

[Danger Rane]

7 hours ago, Lumber_Jack said:

This one was in the region too, its call a Super Scooper.  Came out of Montana.  It worked mostly in North Carolina.  There is a video on facebook of it scooping out of Fontana Lake.  Basically lands on the water scoops up 1600 gallons in 12 seconds and then takes back off.  

Where I grew up in Northern California it was almost every summer we would see these scooping out of Lake Shasta. Quite a site to behold, especially if out on a boat near the scoop site. They would usually have a couple small boats out there right before scoop run trying to herd the recreational boaters out of the way in time. 

Fast forward a couple years and I was a volunteer firefighter working on wild-land crews getting to see these and the retardant tankers up close from the receiving end. They are real game changers tactically. Not sure who came up with the idea of this as a viable water delivery technique (and I'm sure there were some pucker factor moments in the development phase) but they are owed some serious kudos for all the lives and land they have helped save over the years. 

[mikegideon]

I have thought the scooper tanker was some great engineering since I first saw it. I'm guessing the problem is that there is never enough of them.

[DaveTN]

I think I heard them say on the news last night that unless this goes to adult court; they won't be incarcerated past 19.

 

[Murgatroy]

I think I heard them say on the news last night that unless this goes to adult court; they won't be incarcerated past 19.
 

It used too be twenty one. But that was a misspent lifetime ago. DHS and DYD have since merged I understand. It used too be that "at risk" youth were in DHS custody until eighteen, "dangerous" youth were eligible to be held by DYD custody until twenty one.

Juvenile Detention Facilities are no joke and can be as dangerous and hard as adult prison. The main difference is the kids don't know any better, and don't care, as opposed to adults who just don't care. Staff at these facilities are as hard as prison guards. For every thirty, you might have one that cares, and they burn out fast.

Now before you assume I watched a Sixty Minutes special on this, let me be clear that sometimes, people can change. However, I am a very extreme exception. I learned more about being a criminal inside than I ever imagined outside.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[peejman]

11 hours ago, leroy said:

If you want kids to be responsible, you have to continually teach them to act responsible; while being responsible yourself...

Therein lies the problem. 

 

I've heard rumors that they currently have a 15 and 17 yr old and they are implicating others. 

[leroy]

11 hours ago, mikegideon said:

Leroy,

I'm going to my safe space now. That was harsh.  

You know I'm kidding.

HEHEHE.... I love it...

[monkeylizard]

I don't know who first started using air tankers, but I know that B-17s were used after WW2 for that.

[A.J. Holst]

19 hours ago, Lumber_Jack said:

This one was in the region too, its call a Super Scooper.  Came out of Montana.  It worked mostly in North Carolina.  There is a video on facebook of it scooping out of Fontana Lake.  Basically lands on the water scoops up 1600 gallons in 12 seconds and then takes back off.  

This looks remarkably like a baby Boeing B-314

 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_314_Clipper

Edited December 9, 2016 by Gotthegoods

[TNWNGR]

11 hours ago, Danger Rane said:

Where I grew up in Northern California it was almost every summer we would see these scooping out of Lake Shasta. Quite a site to behold, especially if out on a boat near the scoop site. They would usually have a couple small boats out there right before scoop run trying to herd the recreational boaters out of the way in time. 

Fast forward a couple years and I was a volunteer firefighter working on wild-land crews getting to see these and the retardant tankers up close from the receiving end. They are real game changers tactically. Not sure who came up with the idea of this as a viable water delivery technique (and I'm sure there were some pucker factor moments in the development phase) but they are owed some serious kudos for all the lives and land they have helped save over the years. 

 

9 minutes ago, Gotthegoods said:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_JRM_Mars

 

The Martin Mar's is a tough old bird but still looks pretty darn good.

[monkeylizard]

According to Wiki, the USFS and USAF unsuccessfully experimented with water-filled bombs as early as 1947, but then switched to the internal water tanks instead. I guess that would be the beginning of air tankers. Interesting.

 

I don't think I've ever seen an air tanker in person. I bet any of them are pretty amazing to see in action, but 20,500 gallons (almost 3 times the Martin Mars) gushing out of the Evergreen 747 at low altitude when it was still operating would probably take the cake.

Edited December 9, 2016 by monkeylizard

[Chucktshoes]

http://m.wmctv.com/wmctv/db_401748/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=erRY7gzX

 

MEMPHIS, TN (WMC) - Law enforcement is dropping charges against two 

teens accused of igniting fires that decimated east Tennessee, including Gatlinburg.

Law enforcement officials announced Friday that the investigation, led by Tennessee Bureau of Investigation, is complete.

Investigators with TBI, Gatlinburg Police Department, Pigeon Forge Police Department, and Sevier County Sheriff’s Office, pored through thousands of pages of documents, records, photographs and video, and spoke with more than 100 witnesses since the fires started in November 2016.

 

Upon review, officials said due to several factors--including unprecedented wind of over 80 miles per hour--they cannot prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the teens were criminally responsible for the fatalities and intense damage the fires caused over the course of four days.

Officials said because of the wind, it's highly unlikely and improbable that the fire would have left Great Smoky Mountains National Park and reached Gatlinburg.

This is further complicated, because there were other fires in the area from power lines that fell from the intense wind, starting several fires.

In addition, the state feels it is not within their jurisdiction to prosecute crimes within Great Smoky Mountains National Park—any prosecution for criminal conduct must be initiated by the federal government.

Fourteen people were killed in the wildfires last year.

[Erik88]

I know most don't agree but I'm glad to hear that. Why ruin the lives of 2 kids who were only guilty of being young and stupid? 

[bersaguy]

If I am not mistaken there was very strick NO BURN Laws in effect for the entire Smokie Mountain Park and all surrounding areas till futher notice which still makes them breaking the law by starting the first fire when the NO BURN law was in effect. Maybe the winds did bring down some power lines but by then the damage was already well under way from the original fire. This is a terrible In-justice to every person that lost lives and property. I hope the Feds do pick this up and at least give them some sort of punishment even if it is manditory community service in the areas in and around Gatlinburg so they can see what the fire did and not the less than a slap on the wrist by the local authorities are doing................JMHO

[mikegideon]

45 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

I know most don't agree but I'm glad to hear that. Why ruin the lives of 2 kids who were only guilty of being young and stupid? 

Young and stupid probably isn't as important as can't be proven responsible. I'm glad to hear the outcome too.

[peejman]

Keep in mind this is only the local government.  I feel sure they'll still face federal charges for starting the fire in the park. 

 

[bubbiesdad]

While it may not be in the media, the youths were/are "special needs" individuals. 

[leroy]

Brothers n Sisters....

Keep this in mind... These two miscreants are obviously children of privilege... None other than the great Knoxville barrister Greg Isaacs... A worthless, ruthless, cunning but very effective high priced defense lawyer is these kids lawyer... My guess is that there is some sort of "quid pro quo" goin on here between the States Attorney and others un-named...

Those charged with being honorable officers of the state court seem to be dismissing that these kids contributed in a major way to the conflagration that took fourteen lives and burned close to a billion dollars worth of property... That very idea seems very strange (...and suspect...) to me... Now we have heard a fantastic pronouncement from the States Attorney that says that "it cannot be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that these two hoodlums were the sole cause of the conflagration"... While this may not be proved that these two little hoodlums were the "sole cause"; i think it's a slam dunk that their actions contributed to the devastation...They were, in fact, "accessories" at the minimum...  I'm convinced that that being an "accessory and contributor" to this sort of devastation is a felony...

Finally; there is a great double standard here, im thinkin... If this had been a couple of us old curmudgeons on this forum, i'm bettin that we would at the minimum, be charged (...and convicted... i think...) of at least 14 counts of second degree murder... Remember this, we have no real justice system; we have a "justice enterprise" where deals are made every day, and justice is tossed out the window... I think that is the case here... We have the best justice system that money can buy... 

Remember Jimmy Dunn... He is the States Attorney for this district... http://www.seviercountytn.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=278&Itemid=277...

I fully intend to vote against him when his term is up... You should too...

Rememberin leroy...

[dawgdoc]

We were in Gatlinburg last week and talked to a local guy about the fire.  He said one of the two teenagers was the Sheriff's son; has anyone seen any similar reports?  All the news reports indicate that their identities were being shielded due to their ages.  He mentioned that they were walking along, dropping lit matches, which the Knoxville News-Sentinel report also confirms.

I think if one of use had started a forest fire inadvertently (such as using an illegal campfire or something), we would be charged and in jail.  If they were willfully dropping lit matches in the woods, and especially if they saw the fire start, they need to be charged.  People lost their lives, others lost their homes, and some lost their businesses.  Even my 11-year old son knows that playing with matches in general but especially dropping them in the woods is a definitely forbidden.

[Erik88]

Sounds like a lot of gossip and wild theories going on in this thread...

[DaveTN]

10 hours ago, dawgdoc said:

We were in Gatlinburg last week and talked to a local guy about the fire.  He said one of the two teenagers was the Sheriff's son; has anyone seen any similar reports?  

All the stories I saw said it was the son of an Anderson County Sheriff’s Office employee. That could be anyone from the Sherriff to the janitor. Of course that is not confirmed.

10 hours ago, dawgdoc said:

He mentioned that they were walking along, dropping lit matches, which the Knoxville News-Sentinel report also confirms.

Plenty of stories allege that.

10 hours ago, dawgdoc said:

I think if one of use had started a forest fire inadvertently (such as using an illegal campfire or something), we would be charged and in jail.  If they were willfully dropping lit matches in the woods, and especially if they saw the fire start, they need to be charged.  People lost their lives, others lost their homes, and some lost their businesses.  Even my 11-year old son knows that playing with matches in general but especially dropping them in the woods is a definitely forbidden.

I don’t believe in bringing charges as punishment when you know you can’t get a conviction. The arguments they make would be tough for prosecutors to overcome with a jury; especially with juveniles. 

12 hours ago, bubbiesdad said:

While it may not be in the media, the youths were/are "special needs" individuals. 

If that is true; that may impact the decisions about charges.

Edited July 1, 2017 by DaveTN